Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondsum wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D
    I'd go one step further and say Fleming was inspired by the 1930s Dennis Wheatley series of novels featuring a ruthless and charming secret agent, a connoisseur of rare wines and fancy women. His name was Gregory Sallust. One could even say Fleming's second Bond novel Live and Let Die was a homage to Sallust and his espionage and occult dealings.

    Agreed - Sallust is surely 007's closest literary antecedent, and in physical appearance bears a striking resemblance to Bond, right down to the facial scar. His backstory is also strikingly similar.

    Fleming and Wheatley were wartime acquaintances and shared several interests. The brand-name-dropping, the sex, sadism and snobbery - all are present and correct in Wheatley's work, albeit served up with less literary refinement.

    The basic premise of FRWL echoes that of the Sallust novel Come Into My Parlour, written around a decade earlier.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    Putting aside that I love two of their three films:

    Controversial opinion: Lazenby and Dalton were necessary, as palate cleansers if you will. Going from Connery to Moore might have been too jarring, and Moore to Brosnan too similar, and either move could have ended the series prematurely.

    The series has lasted as long as it has because of the differing portrayals by the six actors.
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    Posts: 210
    well I like Die Another Day a lot (it is my 2nd favorite bond film) which is a bit controversial to say
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    well I like Die Another Day a lot (it is my 2nd favorite bond film) which is a bit controversial to say

    Now there's a controversial opinion. Would be interested to see the whole list:
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/78/bond-movie-ranking-simple-list-no-details#latest
  • Skyfall is highly overrated and my least favourite Bond film (it used to be LALD). In fact, I find it incredibly boring.

    That said, I do find it interesting that if I catch it on the telly, I end up watching, at the very least, a segment of it, with some interest.

    For some reason, for me, even though I dislike that one a great deal, when I catch particular segments by themselves, I do kind of enjoy them. Just not put together in film sequence, which. Is acutally what it is and is supposed to be.
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    edited July 2019 Posts: 210
    w2bond wrote: »
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    well I like Die Another Day a lot (it is my 2nd favorite bond film) which is a bit controversial to say

    Now there's a controversial opinion. Would be interested to see the whole list:
    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/78/bond-movie-ranking-simple-list-no-details#latest

    alrighty then, ill rank em in a bit
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    After having rewatched all the films up to FYEO, I came to realize I actually like MR more than either TSWLM or FYEO. Despite plot issues and some rather bonkers humour, here’s why:

    - better villain
    - better Bond girls
    - better music
    - better sets, even though Spy comes close
    - better locations, although the other two score well on this account too
    - better cinematography, again Spy comes close too

    Surely, MR is a mess plotwise, but when you go Rog, you’ll go 100% Rog with MR. The plots were never the strongest point during his tenure, let’s be honest. Everything else shines most in MR and that’s why I liked it more than both its predecessor and its successor.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 7,507
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    After having rewatched all the films up to FYEO, I came to realize I actually like MR more than either TSWLM or FYEO. Despite plot issues and some rather bonkers humour, here’s why:

    - better villain
    - better Bond girls
    - better music
    - better sets, even though Spy comes close
    - better locations, although the other two score well on this account too
    - better cinematography, again Spy comes close too

    Surely, MR is a mess plotwise, but when you go Rog, you’ll go 100% Rog with MR. The plots were never the strongest point during his tenure, let’s be honest. Everything else shines most in MR and that’s why I liked it more than both its predecessor and its successor.

    I totally see were you are coming from re TSWLM. For me Spy and MR are two very similar films, and although my brain tells me the former is the better and objectively superior film overall, yet I get more enjoymemt from watching the other.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited August 2019 Posts: 2,252
    TWINE has the worst script in the series. Yes, including DAD. At least DAD tries to be punny/funny. I don't know what TWINE is.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    I don’t care what anyone says, I love 80’s Binder. Don’t agree at all with all the criticism towards his work for FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK. Love them all to bits. So distinctly children of their era, it’s like being in a time capsule. I think AVTAK might be my favourite of them all, rivalled only by Kleinman’s GE.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Moonraker is probably my favourite Roger Moore Bond movie. Not proud of that but it's probably more for nostalgic reasons than anything else... only defence I've got!

    Also - I found Casino Royale SLIGHTLY overrated (but still good).
  • Posts: 631
    I can see why people rate CR highly but it doesn’t really do anything for me personally. Even the parkour chase at the beginning is a bit overrated, it feels more like something belonging in an early Die Hard movie than in a Bond film. Dr No didn’t feel it had introduce the character in an action scene, after all. Dr No introduced the character while he’s smoking a fag and effortlessly chatting up a woman he’s only just met. In fact it’s ages before Dr No puts Bond in any action at all. Yet Dr No feels more of a Bond film to me than CR does.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BondStu wrote: »
    Moonraker is probably my favourite Roger Moore Bond movie. Not proud of that but it's probably more for nostalgic reasons than anything else... only defence I've got!

    Be proud. It’s unique and brilliant.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    RC7 wrote: »
    Be proud. It’s unique and brilliant.

    Why thank you my friend! After all - who could hate a film with THIS in it?



    And it would be remiss not to mention that STUNNING Barry score... wow!

  • edited September 2019 Posts: 1,596
    RC7 wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    Moonraker is probably my favourite Roger Moore Bond movie. Not proud of that but it's probably more for nostalgic reasons than anything else... only defence I've got!

    Be proud. It’s unique and brilliant.

    I second this. Moonraker is absolutely stunning. It is one of a small handful of Bond films that I am dying to see projected on a big screen with big sound. Pure maximalist cinema. Sure, it has its flaws, but they pale in comparison to the highs it reaches on an audio/visual level. Beautiful movie.

    Oh, and this is perhaps Barry's best work for the series and that is saying something.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Oh, and this is perhaps Barry's best work for the series and that is saying something.

    I'd actually say it's his second best. If I'm completely honest - I think The Living Daylights is Barry's best score.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    I absolutely love MR as well. On a visual scale, it might be the best Bond film. Or one of the best at least. Stunning locations, masterful cinematography and glorious sets. I would agree with you too that its score is Barry’s second best after TLD, though I’d add TB to that mix as well.

    On CR, I appreciate what it tries to do and it does so very well but I think it tends to be overrated because it is considered “the best Bond film ever” by so many. While it’s good, I wouldn’t say it’s quite THAT good.
  • BondStu wrote: »
    Oh, and this is perhaps Barry's best work for the series and that is saying something.

    I'd actually say it's his second best. If I'm completely honest - I think The Living Daylights is Barry's best score.

    I wouldn't really know how to rank his scores. I've tried in the past and beyond the roughest possible list (just a general idea of what is toward the top and what is toward the bottom) it is basically impossible because his work for the series is truly so, so good.

    In fact, when I went to rank the series' scores I specifically separated Barry's work and just ranked the non-Barry scores.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    On CR, I appreciate what it tries to do and it does so very well but I think it tends to be overrated because it is considered “the best Bond film ever” by so many. While it’s good, I wouldn’t say it’s quite THAT good.

    I think CR flirts with greatness. I just always get bored when it goes into that Bond/Vesper romance subplot later in the film. Always loses me.

    It's good - but I think OHMSS is a shed load better, and more emotionally truthful as well.

    Best Bond film ever? When someone asks me that, my answer is always the same. It's not been made yet - and never will be. There is no best Bond film. It spans so many different generations and means something different to everyone.

    All anyone has got is their favourite. And mine is Goldeneye.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    AVTAK is a bloody good Bond film. My favorite Roger film, slightly after TSWLM which is a classic. A flawed one, but always a classic.
  • Posts: 17,753
    matt_u wrote: »
    AVTAK is a bloody good Bond film. My favorite Roger film, slightly after TSWLM which is a classic. A flawed one, but always a classic.

    No question about that, IMO. Every time I watch it, I'm only reminded what a great ride of a film it is.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    AVATK has a GREAT title song! And also it has great... erm.... err... well... it's not Die Another Day I suppose! :))
  • TWINE is an underrated film, and Denise Richards is actually pretty good and gets a lot of unnecessary hate. Potential top 5 for me!
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    TWINE is an underrated film

    It'll never be one of my favourites - but I do enjoy the story point of Bond's injured shoulder. TND is a fun movie but Bond was a bit of an indestructible Superman in it.
    It was interesting to see a new angle on that.
  • matt_u wrote: »
    AVTAK is a bloody good Bond film. My favorite Roger film, slightly after TSWLM which is a classic. A flawed one, but always a classic.

    I've had an up and down relationship with a lot of films in the series, but I have always appreciated AVTAK, namely because it is absolutely, completely, truly bizarre as all Hell.

    Because of this lens, even its "flaws" can be perceived as in keeping with its overall mood and approach. I could probably list a large handful of batshit oddities just off the top of my head and, if given adequate time, another several dozen if I had time to really sit and think about it. I love it.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited September 2019 Posts: 5,080
    I was at one point, at the very beginning of my time on these forums, known for being one of AVTAK's most energetic supporters (I do have an appreciation thread lurking somewhere). While with age I perhaps don't appreciate quite as much back then, I still get enormous joy out of it. Zorin is my favourite villain in the series. Inspired casting. In fact I pretty much enjoy everything from arriving at Frisco onwards.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    I don't know how controversial or not these opinions will be but I'll give you a few Bond films that I'm NOT a fan of.

    Thunderball (boring)
    Diamonds Are Forever (mean spirited to the point of being unpleasant)
    Live And Let Die (see above)
    The Man With The Golden Gun (just garbage)
    Octopussy (boring)
    A View To A Kill (like a bad spoof of a Bond film)
    The World Is Not Enough (wasted potential)
    Die Another Day (just garbage)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    I was at one point, at the very beginning of my time on these forums, known for being one of AVTAK's most energetic supporters (I do have an appreciation thread lurking somewhere). While with age I perhaps don't appreciate quite as much back then, I still get enormous joy out of it. Zorin is my favourite villain in the series. Inspired casting. In fact I pretty much enjoy everything from arriving at Frisco onwards.

    For me it’s the other way around, I love the first part: PTS, titles, Ascot and everything in France, bar the Renault chase and the fisticuffs in the warehouse. After that I enjoy the KGB and Pola turning up in SF, but the from the elevator fire up to the fire engine chase and the abandoned mine scenes I lose interest. The landmark climax gets stuff back into gear at the last moment, fortunately.
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 1,596
    BondStu wrote: »
    I don't know how controversial or not these opinions will be but I'll give you a few Bond films that I'm NOT a fan of.

    Thunderball (boring)

    Every time I hear this specific criticism of TB it makes me want to jump off a bridge. In other words, I hope you're right that this is a controversial opinion ;)
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    BondStu wrote: »
    I don't know how controversial or not these opinions will be but I'll give you a few Bond films that I'm NOT a fan of.

    Thunderball (boring)

    Every time I hear this specific criticism of TB it makes me want to jump off a bridge. In other words, I hope you're right that this is a controversial opinion ;)

    You obviously seem to think ago... but you admit yourself it's not the first time you've heard it. Fry that one in your mind wok! :))
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