Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    BondStu wrote: »
    Well - here's another quite controversial opinion... I LIKE SPECTRE!!! *runs away*

    Many people here do. I have it in my top ten. I think it is pretty much split down the middle, it s just that those who hate it keep harping on about it.
    +1
  • Posts: 7,507
    Birdleson wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    Well - here's another quite controversial opinion... I LIKE SPECTRE!!! *runs away*

    Many people here do. I have it in my top ten. I think it is pretty much split down the middle, it s just that those who hate it keep harping on about it.

    Not harping, it just gets discussed and that's the input.

    I beg to differ. The aggresion towards it occationaly gets exaggerated and obnoxious.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    @jobo I'm inclined to agree with you Sir. I don't know if I'd ever put Spectre in a top ten like my friends @Thunderfinger and @Minion have - but I tell you - I truly believe there are FAR WORSE Bond movies out there than this one.

    @Birdleson - sorry to hear you got a hard time for not liking it as much as others. You can trust me to not engage in that kind of behaviour on here. I think disagreements are good cause they generate discussion. But anyway - what can you do?

    On a personal note - when I was here under a different name I got absolutely destroyed for the sin of not minding one day if a black guy plays Bond. My exact words were "Who cares? it's only a movie!" and I was surprised (although maybe I shouldn't have been) at the amount of people who lost their damn minds.

    My stay this time has been a lot more pleasant.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    BondStu wrote: »
    Well - here's another quite controversial opinion... I LIKE SPECTRE!!! *runs away*

    Many people here do. I have it in my top ten. I think it is pretty much split down the middle, it s just that those who hate it keep harping on about it.

    Exactly. BTW as I see things I don't think liking SP should be considered controversial.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    As I see Aki easily hitting top 3 in the “Sacrificial Lamb Elimination Game”, I was wondering what we find so great about her? Personally I find the Bondgirls in YOLT to be rather underwhelming.
  • Posts: 19,339
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2019 Posts: 1,711
    BondStu wrote: »
    Well - here's another quite controversial opinion... I LIKE SPECTRE!!! *runs away*

    It's probably my favorite, so I'm even worse!

    Look, in a few years, all the hyperventilating will cease, and silly folks will stop pretending Spectre is worse than DAF or AVTAK. Hell, people are now coming round to the Star Wars prequels, and Spectre is a lot better than those.
  • AVTAK is much better than SP
  • Posts: 12,473
    AVTAK is much better than SP

    Agreed. AVTAK is in my Top 15 so that’s pretty controversial by itself. I recognize its issues but I’ve been having a ton of fun with it my last several watches. SP has languished near the bottom for a while now for me.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's not pretending. There is no ultimate factual ranking. Why is it so hard to accept that some people enjoy those others and not SP (I have a Hell of a lot of fun with DAF and AVTAK)? I may disagree with other people's rankings, but I'd never tell them that they were wrong or misguided or question their motives. We all look for different things from Bond films, and find different things. Can't we leave it at that? People get so damned personal about movie preferences.

    Agreed.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

    But then, you're also about the only one here that hates TLD (or at least Kara), aren't you?
  • j_w_pepper wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

    But then, you're also about the only one here that hates TLD (or at least Kara), aren't you?

    Count me as one more person who's not a fan of Kara.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited September 2019 Posts: 5,080
    Birdleson wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    Well - here's another quite controversial opinion... I LIKE SPECTRE!!! *runs away*

    It's probably my favorite, so I'm even worse!

    Look, in a few years, all the hyperventilating will cease, and silly folks will stop pretending Spectre is worse than DAF or AVTAK. Hell, people are now coming round to the Star Wars prequels, and Spectre is a lot better than those.

    It's not pretending. There is no ultimate factual ranking. Why is it so hard to accept that some people enjoy those others and not SP (I have a Hell of a lot of fun with DAF and AVTAK)? I may disagree with other people's rankings, but I'd never tell them that they were wrong or misguided or question their motives. We all look for different things from Bond films, and find different things. Can't we leave it at that? People get so damned personal about movie preferences.

    Exactly, words of sense.

    Four years on (I consider that quite a considerable amount of time) and it still sits at no.23 for me. My opinion of the film hasn’t moved one inch.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    As I see Aki easily hitting top 3 in the “Sacrificial Lamb Elimination Game”, I was wondering what we find so great about her? Personally I find the Bondgirls in YOLT to be rather underwhelming.

    Because she's resourceful and saves Bond?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    echo wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    As I see Aki easily hitting top 3 in the “Sacrificial Lamb Elimination Game”, I was wondering what we find so great about her? Personally I find the Bondgirls in YOLT to be rather underwhelming.

    Because she's resourceful and saves Bond?

    True. Can’t argue with that. Just not as high on my list as some of the others, that’s all.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Of all the female agents in Bond, Aki is perhaps the most succesfull. They don't force her to look cleverer or more skillful than what seems realistic and natural for the actress and character.
  • Posts: 19,339
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

    But then, you're also about the only one here that hates TLD (or at least Kara), aren't you?

    I was joking with you (what is up with people on here recently ),but in answer to your question,i probably dislike her the most,but there are others as well :
    octofinger wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

    But then, you're also about the only one here that hates TLD (or at least Kara), aren't you?

    Count me as one more person who's not a fan of Kara.

    And right on queue here is one.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I will jump on the fence and defend Kara to my final days @barryt007 ;)
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Birdleson wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    Well - here's another quite controversial opinion... I LIKE SPECTRE!!! *runs away*

    It's probably my favorite, so I'm even worse!

    Look, in a few years, all the hyperventilating will cease, and silly folks will stop pretending Spectre is worse than DAF or AVTAK. Hell, people are now coming round to the Star Wars prequels, and Spectre is a lot better than those.

    It's not pretending. There is no ultimate factual ranking. Why is it so hard to accept that some people enjoy those others and not SP (I have a Hell of a lot of fun with DAF and AVTAK)? I may disagree with other people's rankings, but I'd never tell them that they were wrong or misguided or question their motives. We all look for different things from Bond films, and find different things. Can't we leave it at that? People get so damned personal about movie preferences.

    Hey, I love DAF and AVATK! And I certainly don't despise any Bond film as much as you hate Spectre! I mean, despite what you say in your comment, you frequently tell people who rank SP in the low teens that they're too generous to the film. So come on.

    I just meant that, as most of us have learned to overlook the massive issues with DAF and AVTAK (or YOLT or TB or TMWTGG or whatever), most people are going to eventually get less butthurt about Spectre and figure out how to approach the film on its terms and have a good time.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

    But then, you're also about the only one here that hates TLD (or at least Kara), aren't you?

    I was joking with you (what is up with people on here recently )...
    Just for the record: So was I :-).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Birdleson wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    BondStu wrote: »
    If I said I prefer Never Say Never Again to Thunderball - would that be considered a controversial opinion?
    I'm all with you...in that I find NSNA more entertaining (i.e. less prone to be boring at times), if not necessarily "better" (in terms of cinematography etc.) than TB. But I must also add that I saw NSNA several times before ever watching TB for the first time, so I never developped a feeling of NSNA illegitemately ripping off TB in the first place. I think on overall terms it's about equal...knowing that the majority here will definitely dispute this.

    I dispute this !!!

    But then, you're also about the only one here that hates TLD (or at least Kara), aren't you?


    You're getting me confused with @barryt007 .
    Uhm...no. My answer was to barryt007's posting, not yours, as far as I can see. But nevermind.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited September 2019 Posts: 1,711
    Birdleson wrote: »

    Yes, but that is generally in jest and almost always with someone that I have an ongoing rapport with.

    And I once again, I feel that you are going for a little bit of the personal again: i.e.. "butthurt". With SP, for me, it's not a matter of overlooking the flaws. That would be easy if there was anything I found enjoyable. I could list at least 20 annoying aspects of DAF, TMWTGG, AVTAK and DAD, but I can come back with just as many points that make the watch worthwhile. None of them are strong films, in the way I would judge a non-Bond film, but I enough is there for me to have a good time.

    Something went janky with the quotes here....

    But hey, as an infrequent commenter, I don't have much rapport with anyone generally. I was just telling another Spectre fan that in a decade or so, no normal person is going to rank that at the bottom, which I suspect is true. And you may suspect that no normal person would rank it above last, because the film has zero enjoyable moments. It hit a point of crapiness that none of the previous 23 films hit. That's terrific, and we'll see how it all pans out. (Obviously every single new Bond film released from now til forever will be a strong candidate for "worst ever", because internet)

    Point is, I see the flaws in Spectre, and I think many of the criticisms are true. But the hyperbole with which the film is criticized is extreme enough to be called "butthurt", and is unlikely to persist to retrospective lists published 10 years from now.

    EDIT: I fixed the screwed up quotes
  • Posts: 17,756
    Point is, I see the flaws in Spectre, and I think many of the criticisms are true. But the hyperbole with which the film is criticized is extreme enough to be called "butthurt", and is unlikely to persist to retrospective lists published 10 years from now.

    Personally, I found SP to be a horribly bad film. My opinion and ranking of the film is unlikely to change anytime soon.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Point is, I see the flaws in Spectre, and I think many of the criticisms are true. But the hyperbole with which the film is criticized is extreme enough to be called "butthurt", and is unlikely to persist to retrospective lists published 10 years from now.

    Personally, I found SP to be a horribly bad film. My opinion and ranking of the film is unlikely to change anytime soon.

    Well, wait and see. I suspect that many future Bond films will be battling it out for the "most intolerable, least intersting" mantle.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Ok, I’ll resign myself to being merely “butthurt”. Glad that’s been established.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Personally, I'd be able to stand SP a lot more if it didn't tarnish the previous three films by retconning them. And if it had a better score and no piss filter. Say what you will about the second half of DAD but at least it was self contained.
  • Personally, I found SP to be a horribly bad film. My opinion and ranking of the film is unlikely to change anytime soon.

    In my experience (for what that’s worth) it’s often the release of the next film that makes people rethink an earlier one. If NTTD turns out to be an absolute stinker then people will reconsider SP.

    It’s a bit like Prime Ministers in the UK. Every current PM is widely regarded to be the worst one, until the next one turns up, and then people suddenly start seeing hitherto unrecognised qualities of leadership and statesmanship in the previous one ;)
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Personally, I found SP to be a horribly bad film. My opinion and ranking of the film is unlikely to change anytime soon.

    In my experience (for what that’s worth) it’s often the release of the next film that makes people rethink an earlier one. If NTTD turns out to be an absolute stinker then people will reconsider SP.

    It’s a bit like Prime Ministers in the UK. Every current PM is widely regarded to be the worst one, until the next one turns up, and then people suddenly start seeing hitherto unrecognised qualities of leadership and statesmanship in the previous one ;)
    Precisely. ;)
  • Geno wrote: »
    I love this thread. Nice to see people proud to give popular punching bags like AVTAK and TWINE some appreciation.

    Here’s one that took a few years of simmering for me:
    Tomorrow Never Dies is the best Pierce Brosnan Bond movie.

    Goldeneye for years had been this untouchable thing, but TND takes the lead for me in terms of story, villain, score, action, locations, photography, and most of all, pacing. It’s a breezier watch than Goldeneye, and these days for me, that’s an important quality.

    Agreed. TND is my favourite Brosnan. A cracking Bond film.

    If you enjoy Brosnan in the role then all the films are watchable at least.
    Goldeneye nudges the two films that followed for me simply because the side characters are generally more engaging. The villains are a bit more memorable.
    TND has Yeo and she was memorable I'll grant, but the rest of the film is a bit formulaic and forgettable fluff IMO.
    TWINE has a fairy poor villain but Brosnan is bang on form here so that makes the film a fun ride for watch every now and again.
    DAD is best watched purely with Bondian brain switched off and fo those who seek outlandish thrills. If you dont like SciFi at all, probably best to avoid DAD though.
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