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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I can get that. I regard FRWL the best of Connery’s run, but can’t deny that most times I’d probably be more in the mood to watch DAF.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,583
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I can get that. I regard FRWL the best of Connery’s run, but can’t deny that most times I’d probably be more in the mood to watch DAF.

    I absolutely agree. FRWL is in my top 5 but if I'm choosing between that and DAF, on most nights im choosing DAF. But I'm not watching many Bond films these days with the return of sports.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I tend to think of CR as THE GODFATHER of Bond films: a masterpiece that's epic in length, but one I'm rarely in the mood for.

    Agree about CR having a Godfather epic type feel to it which helped make it be far and away the best of the Brosnan/Craig era of Bond films. Too bad QOS failed dismally at its attempt to be the 007 series' Godfather Part II.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I wish I could have the raw footage of QOS to make a cut that actually had room to breathe. It wouldn’t fix the script, but it would at least feel less jarring.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I wish I could have the raw footage of QOS to make a cut that actually had room to breathe. It wouldn’t fix the script, but it would at least feel less jarring.

    Well Francis Ford Coppola is releasing a new cut of Godfather 3 so maybe Marc Forster will get his chance some day!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    No! I don’t even trust Forster! He continued to do this editing crap in following films.


  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    I’m always in the mood for CR. I think, with the exception of TB, it’s my most-watched Bond film.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,753
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    As much as I probably should love CR, I think I've only watched it once in the last five years. I'm never in the mood for it, and I find it too long.

    I've been feeling that way about the Craig era in general.

    I tend to think of CR as THE GODFATHER of Bond films: a masterpiece that's epic in length, but one I'm rarely in the mood for.
    Actually that's a weak analogy as I'd watch CR over THE GODFATHER any day of the week.

    Yeah, me too. Never really warmed to this era, unfortunately.

    I can see the analogy with The Godfather; it's a film with plenty of great elements which should make it a classic you should just love to watch. Can't remember the last time I watched it though.
  • jobojobo
    edited September 2020 Posts: 7,507
    The Godfather comparison makes perfect sense! I adore them both and have rewatched them countless times! ;)
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Here's a controversial opinion. We haven't had two great Bond films in a row since the Connery era. The closest we came was probably LTK-GE...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I'd go even further back and say FYEO/OP was the last time we had two films in a row of comparable quality. After that it's just been up and down, with the lowest point being the TND/TWINE/DAD trifecta of crap.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    I'd say TLD and LTK were both great.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    TLD certainly is. LTK was a movie I liked a lot more many years back but had been slipping in my rankings over time that it's now at the bottom lower half.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Here's a controversial opinion. We haven't had two great Bond films in a row since the Connery era. The closest we came was probably LTK-GE...

    For me personally CR and QOS are two great Bond films....
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    I would have TSWLM and MR as two great films.

    Directly after that, FYEO and OP are both really good films, although maybe not great
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    DraxCucumberSandwich wrote: »
    I would have TSWLM and MR as two great films.

    Directly after that, FYEO and OP are both really good films, although maybe not great

    TSWLM is a great film, no question. MR, though? Its a fun watch but it's far from the upper echelons of the series..
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    jobo wrote: »
    I'd say TLD and LTK were both great.

    TLD is excellent. LTK is good film, but not a good Bond film, if you get my drift.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    Roadphill wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I'd say TLD and LTK were both great.

    TLD is excellent. LTK is good film, but not a good Bond film, if you get my drift.

    Have to disagree there. I currently rank LTK at nr 3. Yes, not kidding.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    jobo wrote: »
    I'd say TLD and LTK were both great.

    TLD, LTK and GE are a great triple bill, imo. Three fine films.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I'd say TLD and LTK were both great.

    TLD, LTK and GE are a great triple bill, imo. Three fine films.

    Agreed. I'd even say the only great three in a row since FRWL-GF-TB.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    Roadphill wrote: »
    DraxCucumberSandwich wrote: »
    I would have TSWLM and MR as two great films.

    Directly after that, FYEO and OP are both really good films, although maybe not great

    TSWLM is a great film, no question. MR, though? Its a fun watch but it's far from the upper echelons of the series..

    For me, the production values and film craft push it into those upper echelons. Amazing stunt work and set pieces; gorgeous location photography; sumptuous John Barry score; some of Ken Adam’s best work; really good special effects work.

    I can’t deny that it is one of the sillier Bond movies. DAD is often compared to it. The difference for me is that MR fully commits to the type of movie it wants to be right from the start (Jaws landing in a circus tent). DAD starts of as one type of movie but then takes a spectacular turn halfway through, and the tonal dissonance destroys the film as a whole. MR takes you on a ride from beginning to end, and the material is perfect for Roger Moore.
    I’d also add that of the three Lewis Gilbert ‘epic’ Bond movies, MR is the best paced. The only negative I’d have against TSWLM is that it could have had a tighter final act. In comparison, MR gets through it’s finale in a more pleasingly brisk fashion.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    From a personal standpoint i'd say CR-QoS-SF is the best triple bill in a row since the 60's.

    2006 to 2012 was a wonderful time to be a Bond fan.

    Then SP came along...
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,526
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    From a personal standpoint i'd say CR-QoS-SF is the best triple bill in a row since the 60's.

    2006 to 2012 was a wonderful time to be a Bond fan.

    Then SP came along...

    QOS has the most divided opinions of any bond film ?
    Some people love it some hate it, like me.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,115
    Controversial opinion : QOS's sole sin is not being as good as CR. Had a movie of this quality, with all its flaws, followed any of the films from the last three decades or so, it would have been received much better.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion : QOS's sole sin is not being as good as CR. Had a movie of this quality, with all its flaws, followed any of the films from the last three decades or so, it would have been received much better.

    No, QoS isn't as good as CR, but then CR raised the bar pretty high in terms of quality in the series. Personally i can't see any future Bond film getting close to it.

    On the subject of QoS i love its fast no nonsense visceral pace. It's a lean, mean Bond film! It's becoming one of my most watched of the series.

    And to be controversial, i like the way it's edited!

  • jobojobo
    edited September 2020 Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion : QOS's sole sin is not being as good as CR. Had a movie of this quality, with all its flaws, followed any of the films from the last three decades or so, it would have been received much better.

    I both agree and disagree. I concur with your assessment that compared to many Bond films and perhaps even most, QOS holds up quite well. However there are definitely some issues there, or "sins comitted" if you like. The editing is the most glaring and obvious one. The story and script, although containing interesting elements, cannot really hide the rushed, chaotic nature of its conception. I am convinced that with a redraft or two and a polish from some qualified writers it would have been great, but that was not to be... Especially certain characters like Fields and Elvis are woufully undeveloped and the potentialy interesting story with Haines is abandoned with no exploration. With such a character you either make him a proper part of the story or you leave him out completely is my opinion. There are certain weaknesses in tone and direction as well. CR managed to combine the gritty realism with just the right ammount of Bondian glamour, romanticism and decadent escapism - QOS doesn't. Although I like the film and enjoy rewatching it from time to time, I would not consider it more than a solid, mid range entry.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,115
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion : QOS's sole sin is not being as good as CR. Had a movie of this quality, with all its flaws, followed any of the films from the last three decades or so, it would have been received much better.

    I both agree and disagree. I concur with your assessment that compared to many Bond films and perhaps even most, QOS holds up quite well. However there are definitely some issues there, or "sins comitted" if you like. The editing is the most glaring and obvious one. The story and script, although containing interesting elements, cannot really hide the rushed, chaotic nature of its conception. I am convinced that with a redraft or two and a polish from some qualified writers it would have been great, but that was not to be... Especially certain characters like Fields and Elvis are woufully undeveloped and the potentialy interesting story with Haines is abandoned with no exploration. With such a character you either make him a proper part of the story or you leave him out completely is my opinion. There are certain weaknesses in tone and direction as well. CR managed to combine the gritty realism with just the right ammount of Bondian glamour, romanticism and decadent escapism - QOS doesn't. Although I like the film and enjoy rewatching it from time to time, I would not consider it more than a solid, mid range entry.
    I agree that it has its share of flaws. What I meant by "sole sin" is that a lot of these flaws would have been overlooked had it followed any other Bond film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Best three in a row: DN, FRWL, GF

    Weakest three in a row: GE, TND, TWINE
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited September 2020 Posts: 2,526
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Best three in a row DN, FRWL, GF

    Weakest three in a row: GE, TND, TWINE

    Best 4 in a row: DN, FRWL, GF, TB

    Weakest 4 in a row: GE, TND, TWINE, DAD
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited September 2020 Posts: 17,753
    Best three in a row: FRWL, GF, TB

    Weakest three in a row: QOS, SF, SP
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