Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • WillyGalore_ReduxWillyGalore_Redux I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals flaaaaaaming
    Posts: 294
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)
  • Posts: 1,394
    Since62 wrote: »
    The freeze frame at the end of Goldeneye shows Bond with Natalya, Marines in the background, with Bond laughing/smiling. The image freezes as the film ends and the credits come up.

    Think you're very much mistaken.

    Yeah i dont know what version of GE hes watched!

    Someone else ( May be the same person ) said earlier that they didnt like Wai Linn '' shooting the roof in slow motion '' at the end of TND? Umm.. i dont remember this? She shoots the stealth boats engines but not the roof!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,787
    Yeah. Boris had the freeze frame.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Yeah. Boris had the freeze frame.

    No he didnt.He was just literally frozen by liquid nitrogen!
  • WillyGalore_ReduxWillyGalore_Redux I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals flaaaaaaming
    Posts: 294
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Yeah. Boris had the freeze frame.

    No he didnt.He was just literally frozen by liquid nitrogen!

    I think that was the joke ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Yeah. Boris had the freeze frame.

    No he didnt.He was just literally frozen by liquid nitrogen!

    @RichardTheBruce was making a joke.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,787
    Seems I sparked a little controversy after all. The right discussion for it, too.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Mandela effect
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,569
    Who can blame someone for subconsciously hitting the pause button on Izabella?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2020 Posts: 5,131
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    They also liked David Arnold’s work, so it’s not like they know any better.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2020 Posts: 5,131
    They also liked David Arnold’s work, so it’s not like they know any better.

    I think TND was a vast improvement, so I tend to agree with them personally. I love Arnold’s work on CR and QoS, he’s certainly a worthy successor to Barry IMO.

    Plus they’ve made millions of pounds from the franchise. So personally, I suggest they do know better. Proven experts in fact.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited October 2020 Posts: 7,114
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳

    I'd admit the tank chase music would have been off, but all the rest makes GE stand out as a particularly atmospheric experience that manages to stay away from the pastiche of later Brosnan entries, part of that thanks to a composer who dared to go for a distinctive score, giving that typical box-ticking of the Pierce era a personality of its own, instead of copying Barry and leaning towards autoparody.
    The music from TND/TWINE/DAD is rather interchangeable, while GE is nothing else than GE. I find that that works to GE's advantage.

    As for tone and melody, none of Arnold's chaotic action compositions come anywhere near Serra's sense of rhythm. It might not be your thing, and that's fine, but Serra is one of the very best synth composers ever.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I do think the JB&F podcast folks are right that in a sense Arnold was perfectly suited for Brosnan as he made pastiche music for a pastiche Bond. Still, at least GE was spared of that. Serra is part of why that film stands apart from the other films in a good way.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    suavejmf wrote: »
    They also liked David Arnold’s work, so it’s not like they know any better.

    I think TND was a vast improvement, so I tend to agree with them personally. I love Arnold’s work on CR and QoS, he’s certainly a worthy successor to Barry IMO.

    Plus they’ve made millions of pounds from the franchise. So personally, I suggest they do know better. Proven experts in fact.

    I agree. I like Serra's score myself (or, at least most of it!) but they were right to get Arnold when they did and he did good work for them for the next five films.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2020 Posts: 5,131
    I do think the JB&F podcast folks are right that in a sense Arnold was perfectly suited for Brosnan as he made pastiche music for a pastiche Bond. Still, at least GE was spared of that. Serra is part of why that film stands apart from the other films in a good way.

    Fair play on the Brosnan era in part. But, in what way was Casino Royale or even Quantum of Solace pastiche? Those scores IMO are excellent. ‘African Rundown’ and ‘Time to Get Out’ elevate the sequences to a thrilling level.

    Serra, stands apart, but it isn’t Bondian. Where is the brass, where is the suave orchestra? It is Ok IMO in part, but 70% of the score is like a cheap Channel 5 film IMO. What is the Aston/ Ferrari chase sequence about?

    I don’t deny GE is Brosnan’s best film by far, but I don’t like the score in general. I do like the GB, pre-title sequence, theme song, love scenes and tank chase parts of the score.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    suavejmf wrote: »
    They also liked David Arnold’s work, so it’s not like they know any better.

    I think TND was a vast improvement, so I tend to agree with them personally. I love Arnold’s work on CR and QoS, he’s certainly a worthy successor to Barry IMO.

    Plus they’ve made millions of pounds from the franchise. So personally, I suggest they do know better. Proven experts in fact.

    I agree. I like Serra's score myself (or, at least most of it!) but they were right to get Arnold when they did and he did good work for them for the next five films.

    Arnold was the best thing to happen to the Bond series in the 90's. Then Daniel Craig in the 00's..... :D
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,290
    suavejmf wrote: »
    They also liked David Arnold’s work, so it’s not like they know any better.

    I think TND was a vast improvement, so I tend to agree with them personally. I love Arnold’s work on CR and QoS, he’s certainly a worthy successor to Barry IMO.

    Plus they’ve made millions of pounds from the franchise. So personally, I suggest they do know better. Proven experts in fact.

    I agree. I like Serra's score myself (or, at least most of it!) but they were right to get Arnold when they did and he did good work for them for the next five films.

    Arnold was the best thing to happen to the Bond series in the 90's. Then Daniel Craig in the 00's..... :D

    Dame Judi would like a word with you.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    They also liked David Arnold’s work, so it’s not like they know any better.

    I think TND was a vast improvement, so I tend to agree with them personally. I love Arnold’s work on CR and QoS, he’s certainly a worthy successor to Barry IMO.

    Plus they’ve made millions of pounds from the franchise. So personally, I suggest they do know better. Proven experts in fact.

    I agree. I like Serra's score myself (or, at least most of it!) but they were right to get Arnold when they did and he did good work for them for the next five films.

    Arnold was the best thing to happen to the Bond series in the 90's. Then Daniel Craig in the 00's..... :D

    Exactly.
  • Posts: 1,394
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳

    Well pretty much everybody with good taste hate Serras score for Goldeneye.The tank chase music in particular is horrible.Im actually amazed that they didnt fire him just like they recently did to Dan Romer and redo the entire score.Was it too late by then?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳

    Well pretty much everybody with good taste hate Serras score for Goldeneye.The tank chase music in particular is horrible.Im actually amazed that they didnt fire him just like they recently did to Dan Romer and redo the entire score.Was it too late by then?

    Why was Romer fires I wonder??
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I do think the JB&F podcast folks are right that in a sense Arnold was perfectly suited for Brosnan as he made pastiche music for a pastiche Bond. Still, at least GE was spared of that. Serra is part of why that film stands apart from the other films in a good way.

    Fair play on the Brosnan era in part. But, in what way was Casino Royale or even Quantum of Solace pastiche? Those scores IMO are excellent. ‘African Rundown’ and ‘Time to Get Out’ elevate the sequences to a thrilling level.

    CR was genetic as crap. A step down from DAD even. QOS is actually his best even if it still carries annoying characteristics of Arnold’s scoring. After five films, I was ready for him to be replaced.

    Personally speaking, I don’t think we should have regular composers anymore. I’d like to have a revolving door of composers where we get a new flavor for each film.
    Serra, stands apart, but it isn’t Bondian. Where is the brass, where is the suave orchestra? It is Ok IMO in part, but 70% of the score is like a cheap Channel 5 film IMO. What is the Aston/ Ferrari chase sequence about?

    I don’t give a crap that it doesn’t sound “Bodnian”. I didn’t miss the brass. That whole pre-title music sequence is what I’d call a shot in the arm. And while “Ladies First” gets flack from sticklers, I think it actually suits the goofiness and absurdity of that chase. I’m not sure an Arnold score would have worked at all.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳

    Well pretty much everybody with good taste hate Serras score for Goldeneye.The tank chase music in particular is horrible.Im actually amazed that they didnt fire him just like they recently did to Dan Romer and redo the entire score.Was it too late by then?

    EON hired Serra because they wanted him to reinvent the music for the 90s, so he was doing exactly what he was hired to do. In the middle of scoring sessions, they started to have second thoughts on that, but didn’t have very good communication with Serra. It was a very dysfunctional process.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2020 Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I do think the JB&F podcast folks are right that in a sense Arnold was perfectly suited for Brosnan as he made pastiche music for a pastiche Bond. Still, at least GE was spared of that. Serra is part of why that film stands apart from the other films in a good way.

    Fair play on the Brosnan era in part. But, in what way was Casino Royale or even Quantum of Solace pastiche? Those scores IMO are excellent. ‘African Rundown’ and ‘Time to Get Out’ elevate the sequences to a thrilling level.

    CR was genetic as crap. A step down from DAD even. QOS is actually his best even if it still carries annoying characteristics of Arnold’s scoring. After five films, I was ready for him to be replaced.

    Personally speaking, I don’t think we should have regular composers anymore. I’d like to have a revolving door of composers where we get a new flavor for each film.
    Serra, stands apart, but it isn’t Bondian. Where is the brass, where is the suave orchestra? It is Ok IMO in part, but 70% of the score is like a cheap Channel 5 film IMO. What is the Aston/ Ferrari chase sequence about?

    I don’t give a crap that it doesn’t sound “Bodnian”. I didn’t miss the brass. That whole pre-title music sequence is what I’d call a shot in the arm. And while “Ladies First” gets flack from sticklers, I think it actually suits the goofiness and absurdity of that chase. I’m not sure an Arnold score would have worked at all.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳

    Well pretty much everybody with good taste hate Serras score for Goldeneye.The tank chase music in particular is horrible.Im actually amazed that they didnt fire him just like they recently did to Dan Romer and redo the entire score.Was it too late by then?

    EON hired Serra because they wanted him to reinvent the music for the 90s, so he was doing exactly what he was hired to do. In the middle of scoring sessions, they started to have second thoughts on that, but didn’t have very good communication with Serra. It was a very dysfunctional process.

    After 5 films, I was gutted when the exceptional Arnold was replaced by the mediocre Newman. Casino Royale for me was his best work, ‘Vesper’ really captured the romance in the film and Your know my name’ was brilliantly interwoven into the score.

    I expect great things from Zimmer. Fingers crossed.

    Serra IMO was an ill advised miss step by the producers. ‘Ladies first’ sounded like a 90’s computer game, the low point of the score IMO.
  • Posts: 727
    Kooky European villains are played out. Not to mention dated. If you look at the world as it is today, most of the villainous weirdos are coming from the States. It’s time Bond starts to have American villains again. It’s been too long.
  • Posts: 2,917
    None of the post-Barry scores after LTK have been memorable, in my unhumble opinion. And even Kamen's score wasn't all it could have been.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Doh ! No freeze-frame at the end of GE ! I suppose what remained with me was the emotional impact of a letdown at the very, very, very end. The villain "getting the point" -- as Bond from TB would have said though no, not about someone formerly his friend and fellow agent...but I would -- was fine. The rest was fine. But the Marines and Wade disturbing Natalya and Bond...well...I realize it was a variation from the traditional "Bond declines rescue" (Connery until TB and YOLT) or "Bond carries on regardless of who's watching" (Moore in TSWLM, MR and AVTAK) but...I'd leave them to celebrate. Of course, Cuban authorities might soon visit, so getting out of there makes sense, but, what can I say ? I'd have "provided them" with their escape plan from the start of that mission, and they could have taken off in a boat. From folks I know here in SoFla, getting in and out with a boat would be more feasible than 3 helicopters risking an unauthorized military battle ! But-- to the point, yes. No freeze-frame, and I guess my gut just still aches from that ending to the scene.
  • Posts: 2,917
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think most of us would agree that in the Classic Era George Martin's scores is the one oddball that can stand proudly with Barry's work.

    I think that is a safe assertion to make. I would also list Conti's score for FYEO, but I know that is a genuinely controversial opinion!

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2020 Posts: 5,131
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    None of the post-Barry scores after LTK have been memorable, in my unhumble opinion. And even Kamen's score wasn't all it could have been.

    I pretty much agree. I do enjoy what Arnold did with the films, but I wouldn't call any of it exceptionally "memorable". And the rest is a joke. I think most of us would agree that in the Classic Era George Martin's scores is the one oddball that can stand proudly with Barry's work.

    I also think the LTK score perfectly captures the grittier mood of the film.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Controversial, indeed ! The music for GE other than the theme was...meh. The disco touches in LALD -- not the title, but, say, when Bond was travelling to NY and Solitaire read cards about him -- and FYEO -- very Bill Conti-ish and, again, not the title -- were dated even before the films were released ! Not distinctive. Not timeless. Listen to John Barry's Out of Africa, for example, for something superb, appropriate and timeless. I get that people - producers, fans, even the composers including Barry -- want to come up with something different. Fine ! I'd just like that it be distinctive.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Not to mention tone deaf ;)

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    Apparently the producers hated Serra’s score too!

    Regarding Serra’s original score for the tank chase; “They hated it. I mean, they really loathed it.” 😳

    Well pretty much everybody with good taste hate Serras score for Goldeneye.The tank chase music in particular is horrible.Im actually amazed that they didnt fire him just like they recently did to Dan Romer and redo the entire score.Was it too late by then?

    Poor form, this comment. It's one thing to jump on the bandwagon, but to insult those who don't is a step too far.

    I know you like DAD, even though that's not a popular opinion. Personally I'd say that film has some atrocious moments, but it wouldn't come to my mind to accuse those who like it of bad taste.
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