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That's a good point! I hadn't thought of that. I suppose the point at which Le Chiffre knew Vesper was a double is quite important, then.
The Swiss bank account secrecy is more or less implied.
Yes, that's true. That's why passwords are what they are!
I agree with this. I love the look of the hotel, in particular. And the idea of it running on those cells, while evidently(!) dangerous, is pretty cool.
Oh yes, that is a bit of a big problem isn't it? I hadn't spotted that!
Maybe Mr White/Gettler had more leverage on her? Did they have her boyfriend? I'm not quite sure.
They are explained, but in such a fleeting moment that I'm sure most people missed it! :)
I think the Morocco crater base is as close as the films have come (maybe since Dr No?) to evoking the feel of the climax of a Fleming novel. His books aren't as big and overblown as the 60s films (even, and I love him, Ken Adam's designs feel a bit 'bigger' than the books), whereas this feels at about the right level. Everything about Bond and Madeline's arrival to Blofeld last act reveal and Bond's sudden, lucky escape feel in the spirit of Fleming to me.
Agreed, and partly in the spirit of Amis too. I'm thinking of that torture scene.
Yes, "verbatim" is the word we're looking for. And it's all the better for it in my opinion. If only they'd do the same thing with Fleming more often!
But isn't that exactly what she does? She enters an account number "for any bank account in the world" and then Bond is meant to type in the password, but he lets her do it. She doesn't need his password to enter the bank account number where she wants the money sent. If Bond hadn't given her the password, he would have entered it, and then the money would have gone wherever she wanted.
If she needed Bond's password to change where the money was sent, how could she make a deal with Mr White to get him the money prior to knowing the password?
I'm not trying pick things apart or crap on a beloved film, by the way! I used to assume and hope I was confused about this, but I'm quite sure that I'm not, as I haven't seen any sort of explanation for this. I think it's the type of plot problem that only become clear in retrospect. It feels like it makes sense when you're watching it, perhaps on the strength of the performances?
The crater base is my favorite set in Bond. It used to be Dr No's lair, but I find the homage superior. I think it's the ridiculous grass and sprinklers that push it over for me. I absolutely love the surreal moment went Rolls pulls up!
Perhaps she did it under the pretense of being able to get from Bond at some point, knowing they were now close and made White aware of that fact. The drama is added to with the fact that the password was her actual name and Bond now not only trusted her, but loved her.
I'm stumped on your first point, though - that is certainly messy and hard to unravel. Perhaps it's simply a case of time being of the essence? Had they not had their romantic connection, the money may not have gone anywhere for a while. She's not to know that Mendel would appear when he did. That's the only thing I can think of.
No, she doesn't need the password. Didn't she actually change the account receiving the money in the movie? She sent it somewhere, and the government never got it.
Yes, but that doesn't negate the need for the password, surely? The money still needs to be released from Monsieur Mendel's account, which is what the password is for. So yes, I think she definitely did need it.
I think that's what has led me to believe time was of the essence for her. She knew she would never get away with it, but she wasn't trying to. I get the impression she was told to get it done quickly, with the boyfriend as leverage. I just wonder at what point White played that card against her. Was it the plan all along in case Le Chiffre screwed the pooch? Did the organisation keep Vesper's compromised position from Le Chiffre?
Looks like I'm going to be watching CR again tonight!
Yeah, it feels surreal overall I think, almost otherworldly. The whole movie, but the hq sequence especially, have a very Kubrickian feel.
No. If Bond hadn't told her to type V-E-S-P-E-R, then he would have done it himself! This is the whole point! Use a different account number for Le Chiffre, and let Bond send it with his password. She does exactly that for Mr White. She doesn't need the password, Le Chiffre doesn't need the password.
I see what you're getting at! :) I don't know if changing the account number after the fact is that straight forward considering Bond was the one who won the game, and from what I remember, the account the money is designated for is in his name too (on behalf of HM Treasury). Vesper wouldn't have been able to set another one up/change the destination of the money without outing herself prematurely, perhaps? It's a massive sum of money, after all. She was already cutting it fine with her bosses as is.
She entered the account number. If that can't be changed from a predesignated one, then Le Chiffre's torture plan makes even less sense.
As it is, it appears she does make a change. And she didn't have to type the password. Bond would have done it for her. Le Chiffre's plan doesn't make sense.
Because of the phone call, wondering when the winnings were going to be deposited? Yes, that is a tough one to explain!
Was the deal to get the password from him? Maybe that makes actually more sense of Bond's sense of betrayal at the end of the film: that she was seducing him to get the password? That actually makes the film a bit better; shame (if that was what was intended) it wasn't a bit clearer! :)
Ha! Yes, the grass and sprinklers are so wonderfully sort of... petty. I love it! And I really like that vaguely pathetic and-yet sinister events manager guy who welcomes Bond and Madeline. He seems so wet, and yet you know he's completely complicit in Blofeld's cruelties.
Guys, she didn't expect to get the password, or try to get the password, or need the password. The only significance of her typing in the six letters instead of Bond is that she sees how much Bond cares for her and how bad her betrayal is.
Thank you, yes! That events manager guy is like a Top 30 Bond character for me! (That's quite high!) I have no idea what makes him so memorable for me, but he's absolutely perfect.
Maybe a new controversial opinion: Spectre has the strongest rogue's gallery since LTK.
I don't think it should be controversial, except that I know a lot of folks loathe Spectre. But Sicarra, Hinx, events manager guy, and the two goons who pursue Q in Austria all have a truly proper Bondian vibe to them. I even like the humorless buff butler at the crater base, and Sciarra's arrogant partner at the board meeting, and Dr Vogel. Bond baddies should have a quirky aesthetic or behavior about them, like you see with some minor ones like Vargas or Locque. And while the Craig films have all been good, they made a choice to have more realistic muscle in the previous ones, like Patrice, Medrano, or any of the guys in CR.
The Brosnan films never quite got it right either (Mr Kil, anyone?), although one could make a strong case for Goldeneye, with Xenia, Boris, and the marvelous Ouromov.
Did they have to put in the account number the winnings where supposed to go to before the game? I was under the impression the only transfer their buy-in and potential re-buy and then set-up the password in the case of a win. So after the win, the winner could put in any bank account they preferred in that moment and confirmed it with their password. Ergo, Le Chiffre, White, Vesper, whoever only needs the password from Bond and can then tell the machine to transfer that money wherever. (This brings up the point that was brought up before that Le Chiffre would need to convince Mendel that the guy he lost to absolutely just made him his financial adviser and he will just take care of the money for now, but we'll leave that to the side for now). So then Vesper puts in some account number and confirms that that is where the money is supposed to go with the password. Bond thinks the money is going to the Treasury but she actually just parks it at a Basel Bank account and then pulls it in cash at the Venice branch (of course)?
Again that only makes Semi-Sense, I think. If it is not in Bond's account, why is Mendel telling him what is going on with the money? If it were in Bond's account, how does Vesper have access to that? If it is a mission-specific account, why hasn't the Treasury already accessed the funds? Maybe for operational security reasons the account was set-up as a private couple's joint account and Vesper was then supposed to transfer it on once they are out of the woods but that is some convoluted stuff.
And why didn't she just directly transfer it to a SPECTRE account? Too obvious? Too traceable? According to M (If I recall correctly) she bought Bond's life from White with that money, so it's not like she thinks she got away from it all when they are at the recovery clinic and then Gettler finds her and pulls her back. She clearly knows what her deal is.
That's exactly it. She can put in any account number she wants. And she sent it to a different account to the one she was supposed to. If she had to send it to a predesignated account, then the government would have got it, obviously. And Le Chiffre would have zero reason to try to get the money from Bond because it would be impossible.
It's right there in the movie, so I don't understand all the other theorizing about it!
I can’t remember: is Vesper taking a suitcase of cash to Gettler?
Yep. And in the end Mr. White somehow has the suitcase even though it fell into the water during the sinking house fight.
I found another discussion of this password/account chaos here and some other oddities are pointed out. The really odd one, and I had forgotten about this, is that Le Chiffre claims that he will get the account number from Vesper. This is an obvious bluff anyway, so it doesn't matter, but why would he want the Treasury account number from Vesper?
If he has to enter it, he'd just be sending the money to the Treasury. If he doesn't need it, then, uh, why is he trying to get it? (Or pretending to try to get it?) He's going to enter his own account number. And why doesn't Bond think any of this is strange?
So again, instead of getting Vesper to send the money to his account, Le Chiffre tortures Bond for a password he can't use and pretends to torture Vesper for an account number that is of no use. I've always hoped I was just a dumb guy and someone could sort this out for me, but it looks like this may be the sloppiest plotting in the series! Maybe there's a commentary on the Bluray that could provide some insight....
Isn't there also a whole piece of monologue in the book where Le Chiffre explains how he plans on telling the casino people that he and Bond had a private game after the public game and he took all the money off him that way? That would kind of be the explanation of how Le Chiffre would have possibly gotten the money from Mendel if he had ever gotten the passphrase out of Bond. Maybe Campbell thought it wouldn't fit the torture scene.
But again: While the actual nuts and bolts plot might not actually hold up to scrutiny, the story is very clear. Le Chiffre is extremely desperate, he needs that money and he is going to torture it out of Bond. Maybe he didn't even think further than that. Maybe as the organiser of the game he can easily get Mendel to give him access to the machine (which then requires the passcode). Who knows? Who cares?
Edit: Another wrinkle: Who tells the machine who won the game? Presumably Mendel or maybe the Casino guy. So just kill Bond and then torture or bribe those guys to input into the machine that Le Chiffre won and just use your own passcode. That would actually be a better overall plan as you could get to theoney no matter who won.
There's definitely some mixed-up writing in play here, as Vesper specifically states that an account was set up for Bond in Montenegro, in his name, on the train! :)
Maybe because, directly after the credits, there is Koskov's defection which is, to my taste, one of the best sequences of the whole series, that could perfectly have been an extended PTS itself (and what a way to introduce Dalton's Bond to the audience).
The most important plot thing it does is to introduce the idea of agents being killed in Smiert Spionam, which you need to establish before Koskov defects.
Couldn't disagree more. The best constructed pts of the series, and it was an excellent way of introducing the Smiert Spionam part of the plot.
Besides that, its a cracking action set piece, and that intro shot of Dalton,.... Brilliant!!