Controversial opinions about Bond films

1684685687689690707

Comments

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I prefer a-Ha's TLD to Duran Duran's AVTAK. Not sure if it's because I have TLD (the movie) at number way so repetition through listening to it a lot leads to a fondness. And plus I didn't live through the 80's so neither of the band's fame causes me to be biased
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,313
    w2bond wrote: »
    I prefer a-Ha's TLD to Duran Duran's AVTAK. Not sure if it's because I have TLD (the movie) at number way so repetition through listening to it a lot leads to a fondness. And plus I didn't live through the 80's so neither of the band's fame causes me to be biased

    I think at the time I really did prefer the TLD song and played it over and over; nowadays I think AVTAK just tips it for me and has aged better, but hey: they're both Barry so neither are bad! :)
  • Posts: 2,402
    mtm wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I prefer a-Ha's TLD to Duran Duran's AVTAK. Not sure if it's because I have TLD (the movie) at number way so repetition through listening to it a lot leads to a fondness. And plus I didn't live through the 80's so neither of the band's fame causes me to be biased

    I think at the time I really did prefer the TLD song and played it over and over; nowadays I think AVTAK just tips it for me and has aged better, but hey: they're both Barry so neither are bad! :)

    It helps that those are two of Barry's finest scores overall.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I think I prefer AVTAK now slightly, but the first time I heard TLD, it was in the title sequence of the film, on TV. And to cram one more ad in I guess, they sped it up maybe 5% or something. That song, that slightly faster version, that's just the coolest thing I've ever heard. When I got the proper VHS and the soundtrack album, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it...
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I think I prefer AVTAK now slightly, but the first time I heard TLD, it was in the title sequence of the film, on TV. And to cram one more ad in I guess, they sped it up maybe 5% or something. That song, that slightly faster version, that's just the coolest thing I've ever heard. When I got the proper VHS and the soundtrack album, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it...

    Funny how minor adjustments can completely change the experience.
    mtm wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I prefer a-Ha's TLD to Duran Duran's AVTAK. Not sure if it's because I have TLD (the movie) at number way so repetition through listening to it a lot leads to a fondness. And plus I didn't live through the 80's so neither of the band's fame causes me to be biased

    I think at the time I really did prefer the TLD song and played it over and over; nowadays I think AVTAK just tips it for me and has aged better, but hey: they're both Barry so neither are bad! :)

    It helps that those are two of Barry's finest scores overall.

    My favourite Barry score changes, but for these two in particular, I think the music of both films is fantastic despite the frosty relationship between Barry and the bands (I think he had issues with a-Ha as well?)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,313
    w2bond wrote: »
    I think I prefer AVTAK now slightly, but the first time I heard TLD, it was in the title sequence of the film, on TV. And to cram one more ad in I guess, they sped it up maybe 5% or something. That song, that slightly faster version, that's just the coolest thing I've ever heard. When I got the proper VHS and the soundtrack album, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it...

    Funny how minor adjustments can completely change the experience.
    mtm wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I prefer a-Ha's TLD to Duran Duran's AVTAK. Not sure if it's because I have TLD (the movie) at number way so repetition through listening to it a lot leads to a fondness. And plus I didn't live through the 80's so neither of the band's fame causes me to be biased

    I think at the time I really did prefer the TLD song and played it over and over; nowadays I think AVTAK just tips it for me and has aged better, but hey: they're both Barry so neither are bad! :)

    It helps that those are two of Barry's finest scores overall.

    My favourite Barry score changes, but for these two in particular, I think the music of both films is fantastic despite the frosty relationship between Barry and the bands (I think he had issues with a-Ha as well?)

    I believe it was actually fine and quite good with Duran and they all came away happy, it was a-Ha that he hated working with. 'A barrel of monkeys' I remember him describing the situation as when I saw him in concert a few years back! :)
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,252
    mtm wrote: »
    ...it was a-Ha that he hated working with. 'A barrel of monkeys' I remember him describing the situation as when I saw him in concert a few years back! :)

    Of course it was! Got my facts mixed up. I remember that interview where a-Ha said something to the effect of "we had no problem working with Barry, it was him who didn't want to work with us" and Barry had similar words to say about a-Ha.

    From what I understand, the sour experience, and money, prevented him from working on Bond since Goldeneye

  • Posts: 1,394
    The final scene of Spectre is a better send off for Craig’s Bond compared to NTTD’s.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Here's one:

    "Breadcrumbs" is one of my least favourite musical cues in the entire series. If you're going to eschew the classic, Vic Flick-type Bond theme entirely from your score, that would be a better decision than playing 16 bars of it and suddenly cutting it off at the knees. Either include the full piece (and no, reusing Arnold's arrangement in the end credits does not count and instead further illustrates the problem) or don't use it at all.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 690
    1. Skyfall is awful, makes no sense, is pretentious and boring, and derailed Craig's tenure. Also the music sucks. They should have kept David Arnold on board. Newman is okay with quieter stuff but he doesn't know how to score an action sequence.

    2. Sam Mendes was totally wrong for Bond. He's very stagey and obsessed with capturing pseudo-iconic images as opposed to telling a story. There's no excitement or tension in his Bonds. Everything is very theatrical and showy, and there's no substance to anything. Also, I don't believe he directed Craig as well as Campbell or even Forster did.

    3. Craig didn't get to just be James Bond, he was always the guy becoming Bond. CR was so successful that the producers felt they had to re-do it over and over by doing a "Bond Begins" movie that would end with him becoming Bond, only to knock him back to square one in the next movie so that he has to re-do it all over again.

    4. Having said that, I think QOS is underrated and is successful in placing Bond into a more realistic world. If only the plot had been developed further. It does not in any way lead into SF or SP, which seem more like movies about Bond movies than actual Bond movies.

    5. TMWTGG works well as a "comedy" Bond and Moore is great playing a more rogue-ish 007 in it. Barry's score is under-appreciated.

    6. FYEO is overrated. It's better than MR but it has serious pacing issues (the entire underwater sequence should have been removed, all it does is make the movie longer).

    7. Brosnan is underrated as Bond. His character is consistent throughout all 4 films despite how different they are, though he is a bit colder in GE. I don't buy the "he was all the previous Bonds combined" criticism, at least not totally. He's different from the other Bonds in that he's the only one who seems to really enjoy the action and excitement around him, kinda like an adrenaline junkie in expensive clothes. I like that aspect of his Bond.

    8. Erica Serra's score for Goldeneye works very well in that movie, but it would be interesting to hear what David Arnold would have done with it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    There’s an old rumor of EON offering David Arnold to re-score GE, but he turned it down because he not only LOVED the score but felt taking the gig would be disrespectful towards Eric Serra.

    I’m not a big fan of Arnold, but if that rumor is true I have great respect for him turning that down. Also, it’s nice he actually appreciated a score as polarizing as Serra’s, and he’s a genuine Bond fan too. That’s pretty cool.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,313
    Here's one:

    "Breadcrumbs" is one of my least favourite musical cues in the entire series. If you're going to eschew the classic, Vic Flick-type Bond theme entirely from your score, that would be a better decision than playing 16 bars of it and suddenly cutting it off at the knees. Either include the full piece (and no, reusing Arnold's arrangement in the end credits does not count and instead further illustrates the problem) or don't use it at all.

    Loads of the films use parts of the Bond theme in isolation, I’m not sure what’s different about this one?
    There’s an old rumor of EON offering David Arnold to re-score GE, but he turned it down because he not only LOVED the score but felt taking the gig would be disrespectful towards Eric Serra.

    I’m not a big fan of Arnold, but if that rumor is true I have great respect for him turning that down. Also, it’s nice he actually appreciated a score as polarizing as Serra’s, and he’s a genuine Bond fan too. That’s pretty cool.

    I don’t think I buy that one: I don’t think Arnold was on their radar in ‘95 and I’m not sure there would have been time for a rescore. Plus if they’d wanted it done someone would have done it.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 16,147
    Controversial opinion:

    I love ALL Bond films including the earlier adaptations of CR and the legendary NSNA. Therefore it stands to reason I'll probably love NTTD.
    I even massively enjoy DAD (although it usually ranks at the bottom).
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,538
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I love ALL Bond films including the earlier adaptations of CR and the legendary NSNA. Therefore it stands to reason I'll probably love NTTD.
    I even massively enjoy DAD (although it usually ranks at the bottom).
    Same thoughts here, although I put DAD above SP for better action.
  • Posts: 2,402
    mtm wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "Breadcrumbs" is one of my least favourite musical cues in the entire series. If you're going to eschew the classic, Vic Flick-type Bond theme entirely from your score, that would be a better decision than playing 16 bars of it and suddenly cutting it off at the knees. Either include the full piece (and no, reusing Arnold's arrangement in the end credits does not count and instead further illustrates the problem) or don't use it at all.

    Loads of the films use parts of the Bond theme in isolation, I’m not sure what’s different about this one?

    The others tend not to do so much buildup of the full, iconic arrangement blaring loudly in the film only to suddenly cut to nothingness before the "chorus," in addition to being part of a score that has shockingly little of the theme in it. Again my point was that it should not have been used that way if that was all we were going to get of it.
  • Posts: 631
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I love ALL Bond films including the earlier adaptations of CR and the legendary NSNA. Therefore it stands to reason I'll probably love NTTD.
    I even massively enjoy DAD (although it usually ranks at the bottom).

    There is not a single Eon film that I dislike. They all have their qualities and they are all, in their own very different ways, very watchable.

    On the other hand I don’t really like NSNA, and CR with David Niven I do not ‘get’ at all. Its alleged ‘humour’ just flies straight past my head.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,313
    mtm wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "Breadcrumbs" is one of my least favourite musical cues in the entire series. If you're going to eschew the classic, Vic Flick-type Bond theme entirely from your score, that would be a better decision than playing 16 bars of it and suddenly cutting it off at the knees. Either include the full piece (and no, reusing Arnold's arrangement in the end credits does not count and instead further illustrates the problem) or don't use it at all.

    Loads of the films use parts of the Bond theme in isolation, I’m not sure what’s different about this one?

    The others tend not to do so much buildup of the full, iconic arrangement blaring loudly in the film only to suddenly cut to nothingness before the "chorus," in addition to being part of a score that has shockingly little of the theme in it. Again my point was that it should not have been used that way if that was all we were going to get of it.

    Hmm, okay; I can't really agree with that, it's a bog, grand statement of the theme and works brilliantly in the scene, plus the score quotes the Bond theme in quite a few places- more so than Quantum of Solace does. It's like criticising the tank chase in GoldenEye for not using the guitar riff part of the theme.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I love ALL Bond films including the earlier adaptations of CR and the legendary NSNA. Therefore it stands to reason I'll probably love NTTD.
    I even massively enjoy DAD (although it usually ranks at the bottom).

    There is not a single Eon film that I dislike. They all have their qualities and they are all, in their own very different ways, very watchable.

    On the other hand I don’t really like NSNA, and CR with David Niven I do not ‘get’ at all. Its alleged ‘humour’ just flies straight past my head.

    It's not very funny (apart from a couple of the slightly madder gags) but I do rather enjoy its absolute mad excess :D

    I agree that I like all of them too (although I guess perhaps Dr No comes the closest to being one I don't find much to enjoy in, just because it's not really found that style yet) and even NSNA has enough to pass the time happily enough for me, even if it's one of the clunkier efforts.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,171
    mtm wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "Breadcrumbs" is one of my least favourite musical cues in the entire series. If you're going to eschew the classic, Vic Flick-type Bond theme entirely from your score, that would be a better decision than playing 16 bars of it and suddenly cutting it off at the knees. Either include the full piece (and no, reusing Arnold's arrangement in the end credits does not count and instead further illustrates the problem) or don't use it at all.

    Loads of the films use parts of the Bond theme in isolation, I’m not sure what’s different about this one?
    There’s an old rumor of EON offering David Arnold to re-score GE, but he turned it down because he not only LOVED the score but felt taking the gig would be disrespectful towards Eric Serra.

    I’m not a big fan of Arnold, but if that rumor is true I have great respect for him turning that down. Also, it’s nice he actually appreciated a score as polarizing as Serra’s, and he’s a genuine Bond fan too. That’s pretty cool.

    I don’t think I buy that one: I don’t think Arnold was on their radar in ‘95 and I’m not sure there would have been time for a rescore. Plus if they’d wanted it done someone would have done it.

    To clarify, this was AFTER his TND score. Supposedly for the DVD Special Edition release.

    Which reminds me, John Williams wanted to re-score the first STAR WARS film for the Special Edition in 1997 (so he could include cues like the Empore march), but thankfully Lucas turned that down. Though he would allow Williams to re-score the ending of RETURN OF THE JEDI.

    I do wish EON could have had John Barry re-score DN. I would have been all for that.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I do wish EON could have had John Barry re-score DN. I would have been all for that.

    That would have be amazing, but I do like the charm of DN in its current state.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,313
    mtm wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "Breadcrumbs" is one of my least favourite musical cues in the entire series. If you're going to eschew the classic, Vic Flick-type Bond theme entirely from your score, that would be a better decision than playing 16 bars of it and suddenly cutting it off at the knees. Either include the full piece (and no, reusing Arnold's arrangement in the end credits does not count and instead further illustrates the problem) or don't use it at all.

    Loads of the films use parts of the Bond theme in isolation, I’m not sure what’s different about this one?
    There’s an old rumor of EON offering David Arnold to re-score GE, but he turned it down because he not only LOVED the score but felt taking the gig would be disrespectful towards Eric Serra.

    I’m not a big fan of Arnold, but if that rumor is true I have great respect for him turning that down. Also, it’s nice he actually appreciated a score as polarizing as Serra’s, and he’s a genuine Bond fan too. That’s pretty cool.

    I don’t think I buy that one: I don’t think Arnold was on their radar in ‘95 and I’m not sure there would have been time for a rescore. Plus if they’d wanted it done someone would have done it.

    To clarify, this was AFTER his TND score. Supposedly for the DVD Special Edition release.

    Hmm, that sounds unlikely to me. I can imagine it was possibly a pie in the sky idea but I'd be surprised if it were seriously considered. Where would the budget come from?
    Which reminds me, John Williams wanted to re-score the first STAR WARS film for the Special Edition in 1997 (so he could include cues like the Empore march), but thankfully Lucas turned that down. Though he would allow Williams to re-score the ending of RETURN OF THE JEDI.

    I can believe that; that's a bit of a shame I think. A chance for a new Williams score of anything is always good and we'd still have the original.
    I do wish EON could have had John Barry re-score DN. I would have been all for that.

    Yes indeed, that would have been great.
  • Posts: 12,460
    Don’t know if it’s controversial or not, but I wish we had gotten at least a couple more films like DN and FRWL. The spectacle is usually terrifically done in all the later films, but those initial two small scale spy thrillers have a really great charm to them.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,592
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Don’t know if it’s controversial or not, but I wish we had gotten at least a couple more films like DN and FRWL. The spectacle is usually terrifically done in all the later films, but those initial two small scale spy thrillers have a really great charm to them.

    I agree, they don’t repeat themselves as much as later movies. The closest movies too them in small scale are OHMSS, LALD and TMWTGG. The later two being too silly.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,127
    It should be noted that, as this is not an approved spoiler thread any controversial opinions of No Time To Die should be kept out of this thread. At least till the end of 2021. Thanks.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    I guess I’ll finally say it: I think CASINO ROYALE is a bit overrated. It’s funny, because I have it placed on #5, but I rank it #2 as far as Craig’s films are concerned. What brings the film down for me is the entire sinking building set piece. I think it’s a complete distraction from what’s going on between Bond and Vesper. I want to feel all betrayal Bond is processing, but hey check him out shoot a nail into this bloke’s eye!

    EON never would have done it, and I can’t blame them for not doing it, but I would have liked the last 20-30 minutes resemble more like the last few chapters of Fleming’s novel with the downward spiral between Bond and Vesper before the suicide. Probably unrealistic, because Bond FILM fans and audiences in general expect the big climaxes, so it would have been jarring to see the last stretch of the film be a melodrama.

    But it would have been ballsy if it went that way. Could the relationship between Bond and Vesper been strong enough to keep audiences engaged and accept a non-action stretch ending? It’s an esoteric Bond story, even for the novels which typically ended with Bond getting the girl (aside from notable exceptions).
  • I love Casino Royale, and think the Venice action scene is a good one, but I have to agree that the way the book ends is a better, more devastating end to their relationship. Sometimes the films’ penchant for adding a ton more action to the Fleming stories works out (OHMSS, for example, really benefits from concocting some big action sequences to get Tracy more actively involved in the film) sometimes it doesn’t (the Venice bit in Casino Royale, but also the helicopter and boat sequences they stuffed in between the Red Grant showdown and the ending of From Russia With Love).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,273
    It would take some reworking but I can see how CR could have the sinking palazzo *and then* the scene in a hotel where Bond finds Vesper's body. Then you cut to the M call when Bond is on the boat and of course the Mr. White scene.
  • Antster007Antster007 Somewhere, keeping the British end up
    Posts: 16
    Without Sir Roger, the Franchise would be dead. It needed a different interpretation and a shift away from Connery’s iconic portrayal. Sir Roger’s tenure ensured the Bond fanbase grew and was ready for a return to a darker, edgier Bond In Dalton.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    Antster007 wrote: »
    Without Sir Roger, the Franchise would be dead. It needed a different interpretation and a shift away from Connery’s iconic portrayal. Sir Roger’s tenure ensured the Bond fanbase grew and was ready for a return to a darker, edgier Bond In Dalton.

    I agree with this.
  • Posts: 631
    Antster007 wrote: »
    Without Sir Roger, the Franchise would be dead. It needed a different interpretation and a shift away from Connery’s iconic portrayal. Sir Roger’s tenure ensured the Bond fanbase grew and was ready for a return to a darker, edgier Bond In Dalton.

    I agree with this.

    And me.

    It was by no means obvious in the 1970s that the series could survive without Connery.

    If LALD had bombed then I don’t think we would be here today talking about film no 25. Instead everyone would have said “it was a Connery thing, so that’s that.”

    Moore demonstrated that the series could function without Connery. That was a tremendously important thing to demonstrate.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,155
    Antster007 wrote: »
    Without Sir Roger, the Franchise would be dead. It needed a different interpretation and a shift away from Connery’s iconic portrayal. Sir Roger’s tenure ensured the Bond fanbase grew and was ready for a return to a darker, edgier Bond In Dalton.

    I agree with this.

    And me.

    It was by no means obvious in the 1970s that the series could survive without Connery.

    If LALD had bombed then I don’t think we would be here today talking about film no 25. Instead everyone would have said “it was a Connery thing, so that’s that.”

    Moore demonstrated that the series could function without Connery. That was a tremendously important thing to demonstrate.

    Absolutely correct. I wonder what it would have been like if Lazenby had taken the series into the '70s.
Sign In or Register to comment.