Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,272
    Controversial opinion: NTTD is a serious remake of CR '67. Bond retires...Bond finds his daughter (Mata/Mathilde)...Bond dies.
  • KenAustinKenAustin United States
    Posts: 226
    Rossi wrote: »
    Judi Dench shouldn't have returned for Casino Royale. It's confusing!

    1000% agree
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Geno wrote: »
    None of NTTD’s dramatic hooks work for me.

    I don’t care about Bond and Madeleine’s relationship, and none of the other major character bits / arcs resonate with me in the slightest. One after another, they all feel terribly contrived and designed to shock, and in no way feels like a natural conclusion to the DC era IMO.

    I agree, and I think it is mainly because there are too many emotional links and the film cannot handle them all. Every character seems to have an emotional relationship with someone else rooting from the past. Bond - Madeleine, Bond - Blofeld, Bond - Vesper, Bond - Felix, Bond - M, Madeleine - Safin, Madeleine - Blofeld, Safin - Blofeld .... Bond also has a daughter and Bond dies in the end. Blofeld dies, Felix dies .... it is just too much...

  • GBF wrote: »
    Geno wrote: »
    None of NTTD’s dramatic hooks work for me.

    I don’t care about Bond and Madeleine’s relationship, and none of the other major character bits / arcs resonate with me in the slightest. One after another, they all feel terribly contrived and designed to shock, and in no way feels like a natural conclusion to the DC era IMO.

    I agree, and I think it is mainly because there are too many emotional links and the film cannot handle them all. Every character seems to have an emotional relationship with someone else rooting from the past. Bond - Madeleine, Bond - Blofeld, Bond - Vesper, Bond - Felix, Bond - M, Madeleine - Safin, Madeleine - Blofeld, Safin - Blofeld .... Bond also has a daughter and Bond dies in the end. Blofeld dies, Felix dies .... it is just too much...

    This is a valid sentiment. It's how I first felt about the film and how I do still feel about it in large part. It's definitely bloated. You also have the Bond - Nomi subplot running throughout and any number of other smaller relationship dynamics being worked out in their own ways: Bond - Ash, Bond - Q, Bond - front desk guy (okay, maybe not that last one). But it is too much for one film to successfully handle. In another Bond film, the death of Felix would have been the entire film. Here it's simply one more thing among many, and the film has forgotten Felix in favor of Madeleine's past with Safin and Bond's past with Blofeld and the reveal of Bond's daughter...until a car falls on Ash...after which Felix is promptly forgotten again. I'm still enjoying NTTD, but it is a bit of a dramatic kitchen sink.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,309
    I’m not sure about the Felix thing being too much: an ally usually dies in a Bond film; it being Felix gives it a bit more resonance than usual but I don’t think it’s a film in itself.
    The Nomi plot is the most underheated for my money: she just has so little to do.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    mtm wrote: »
    I’m not sure about the Felix thing being too much: an ally usually dies in a Bond film; it being Felix gives it a bit more resonance than usual but I don’t think it’s a film in itself.
    The Nomi plot is the most underheated for my money: she just has so little to do.

    Yes, then better leave Nomi out. The film's run-time is limited and the film needs to solve the unsolved issues of the four previous films. The subplot that Bond as a male 00 agent is past his prime (Skyfall) or a relict of the cold war (Golden eye) has been handled in Bond films already.
  • mtm wrote: »
    I’m not sure about the Felix thing being too much: an ally usually dies in a Bond film; it being Felix gives it a bit more resonance than usual but I don’t think it’s a film in itself.
    The Nomi plot is the most underheated for my money: she just has so little to do.

    Well, 30 years ago the death of Felix's wife was an entire film. ;)
  • GustavGravesGustavGraves Ukraine
    Posts: 15
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,592
    Speaking of AVTAK, I am feeling more comfortable with RM’s age. The reason is that all of these actors are coming back to play their roles as older characters. Examples: Harrison Ford as Han Solo, Indy and Rick Deckard, and other Star Wars actors. With half of the stuff that we grew up with making a comeback, maybe RM was ahead of his time, playing Bond as a old man. Him sleeping with younger women is still a bit touchy, but Bond films aren’t meant to be masterpieces.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,309
    GBF wrote: »
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)

    I still love AVTAK. It starts to flatten out a bit the longer it goes on (the firetruck ride is probably the low point) but I think it all works really well.
  • Posts: 1,916
    GBF wrote: »
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)

    I guess you've never read any of my AVTAK posts as I'd consider it 10% classic Bond (okay, probably more), but it's really low-tier Bond for me. For instance, Tibbett being killed kinda' made me PO'd. They didn't need to make him a sacrificial lamb.

    And May Day switching sides, depriving us of a showdown with her and Bond and turning good is one of the biggest letdowns of the series. I could go on and on, but no need. There are so many better Bond films to discuss it just isn't worth the bandwidth.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)

    I guess you've never read any of my AVTAK posts as I'd consider it 10% classic Bond (okay, probably more), but it's really low-tier Bond for me. For instance, Tibbett being killed kinda' made me PO'd. They didn't need to make him a sacrificial lamb.

    And May Day switching sides, depriving us of a showdown with her and Bond and turning good is one of the biggest letdowns of the series. I could go on and on, but no need. There are so many better Bond films to discuss it just isn't worth the bandwidth.

    Well I have always thought that there is not only good and bad but much more in between. Mayday is not turning from the bad to the good side. She was betrayed by Zorin and therefore wants to take revenge on him. That does not mean she is a good character out of the sudden.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,309
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)

    I guess you've never read any of my AVTAK posts as I'd consider it 10% classic Bond (okay, probably more), but it's really low-tier Bond for me. For instance, Tibbett being killed kinda' made me PO'd. They didn't need to make him a sacrificial lamb.

    Why not? Because you liked him? That’s kind of the point of doing it!
  • BT3366 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)

    I guess you've never read any of my AVTAK posts as I'd consider it 10% classic Bond (okay, probably more), but it's really low-tier Bond for me. For instance, Tibbett being killed kinda' made me PO'd. They didn't need to make him a sacrificial lamb.

    And May Day switching sides, depriving us of a showdown with her and Bond and turning good is one of the biggest letdowns of the series. I could go on and on, but no need. There are so many better Bond films to discuss it just isn't worth the bandwidth.

    I find May Day switching to the good side much more believable then Jaws in Moonraker.
  • Posts: 1,916
    mtm wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Terence Young made the best Bond films with 100% success.
    All Guy Hamilton films are questionable, and the best of them by far, Goldfinger, is still overrated.
    Goldeneye is nothing too special, more 90s action than Bond. Campbell did much better work with CR. And the score sucks, stealing from its atmosphere.
    Tomorrow Never Dies, on the other hand, is underrated. Pure Bond formula flawlessly executed. It's like Guy Hamilton film if he knew what he was doing (he didn't).

    First half of Moonraker, first 30 minutes of AVTAK and 15 of DAD are great classic Bond. Too bad it's all went downhill faster than Bond changes his love interests. But DAF no, it has no redeeming qualities, it just sucks. Unlike DAD, which is cheesy fun, really, not pretending poser like DAF.

    Dalton is the best Bond we had. Both as Bond and as actor, despite only Craig rose as actor over his tenure, reaching Dalton level by retirement. Yet even Dalton is still "something is missing" when it comes to portrayal of true Fleming protagonist.

    Even more controversial: 90% of AVTAK are great classic Bond:
    • Title sequence, Chase through Paris starting from the Eiffel tower, Bond and Tibbet under cover during the Chateau scenes, Tibbet being killed and Bond surviving by breathing the air from the tyre; Bond investigating the pump station, Zorin killing Mr Howe and setting the City hall on fire; the whole mine sequence and Mayday's revenge on Zorin; Golden Gate fight.

    I hardly ever hear people complain about these scenes... Even the pre title sequence would have been good if they had changed it a little bit... (the inclusion of the GG song is so stupid as is the chat with the young lady in the submarine)

    I guess you've never read any of my AVTAK posts as I'd consider it 10% classic Bond (okay, probably more), but it's really low-tier Bond for me. For instance, Tibbett being killed kinda' made me PO'd. They didn't need to make him a sacrificial lamb.

    Why not? Because you liked him? That’s kind of the point of doing it!

    They already offed Aubergine, why not count him or Chuck Lee as the Obligatory Sacrificial Lamb? No, this film has to have multiple. Because it's Patrick Macnee. He could've been a continuing character, but let's just show what a badass May Day is only to throw it away by turning her to Bond's side.
    I find May Day switching to the good side much more believable then Jaws in Moonraker.

    And this strengthens my point even more. MR is such a bat$h!t crazy film to begin with so it actually works. You know Bond isn't going to ultimately beat Jaws, so why not turn him into turning against Drax? They already gave him a girlfriend in one of the most embarrassing sequences in the series. Nothing was beyond anything goes at that point.

    As I said, May Day has killed multiple associates of Bond's and wreaked havoc the whole film and the advertising set her up as has Bond finally met his match only to throw it away. If you want to support this turn, then imagine Oddjob agreeing with Kish to take the fuse out of the bomb in Fort Knox rather than tossing him over the ledge or Fiona calling off her minions because she heard a heavenly choir singing while dancing with Bond or any other number of examples.

    Yet we have to still endure screaming Stacy Sutton as further punishment along with the return cameo of the bumbling cop. What would've been more fitting was May Day having been swept away during the flood and disappearing, presumed dead and Bond somehow defusing the bomb and all the rest and then pulled the classic earlier Connery/Moore trope of the remaining henchman reappearing after the main villain's demise to give Bond one more challenge. That would've sent Moore off on a memorable note. Instead, we get lines like "That is not the soap."


  • Posts: 16,147
    Controversial opinion:

    I think DAF works fine as either a follow up to OHMSS, or a stand alone entry.
    I like to think Bond's grievance of Tracy occurred off screen during the two years between films and the result being a Bond not quite as fit as before. By the PTS he's reached the anger stage of grievance and will trample anybody getting in the way of his search for Blofeld.
    After he seemingly has disposed of Blofeld he's ready to get back to his old self and this lighthearted assignment pushes him back in that direction: gambling in Vegas, flirting with Plenty as well as Tiffany and doing a little detective work investigating the diamonds. Scaling the Whyte House, and climbing beneath the oil rig gives him a little exercise to begin to get back into shape. After all, Tracy wouldn't want him moping and whining about her for the next 15 years.
    This comes full circle when the real Blofeld returns and Bond finally gets to dispose of him and save the world yet again. The issue of marriage is hinted at by Tiffany which Bond promises to think about before answering. Luckily he doesn't have to dwell on this issue for too long as moments later she's changed her mind and the subject of her question to him.
    It's certainly not a thorough follow up in this day and age of story arcs. And, it probably does work better as a stand alone for 1971 audiences who chose to skip OHMSS regardless. Still, there's enough there for me to enjoy the film as either.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    All valid points, and it was almost certainly written so that it could be seen as a follow-up to either YOLT or OHMSS.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 16,147
    All valid points, and it was almost certainly written so that it could be seen as a follow-up to either YOLT or OHMSS.

    I think had Eon done something more low key after TB like a a more faithful version of DAF, Connery might've been in better spirits to do OHMSS. Then we could've gotten a true adaptation of YOLT to end his tenure on.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I think DAF works fine as either a follow up to OHMSS, or a stand alone entry.
    I like to think Bond's grievance of Tracy occurred off screen during the two years between films and the result being a Bond not quite as fit as before. By the PTS he's reached the anger stage of grievance and will trample anybody getting in the way of his search for Blofeld.
    After he seemingly has disposed of Blofeld he's ready to get back to his old self and this lighthearted assignment pushes him back in that direction: gambling in Vegas, flirting with Plenty as well as Tiffany and doing a little detective work investigating the diamonds. Scaling the Whyte House, and climbing beneath the oil rig gives him a little exercise to begin to get back into shape. After all, Tracy wouldn't want him moping and whining about her for the next 15 years.
    This comes full circle when the real Blofeld returns and Bond finally gets to dispose of him and save the world yet again. The issue of marriage is hinted at by Tiffany which Bond promises to think about before answering. Luckily he doesn't have to dwell on this issue for too long as moments later she's changed her mind and the subject of her question to him.
    It's certainly not a thorough follow up in this day and age of story arcs. And, it probably does work better as a stand alone for 1971 audiences who chose to skip OHMSS regardless. Still, there's enough there for me to enjoy the film as either.

    Yes, I tend to agree. 50 years ago, Bond films were much more seen as standalone films, even though the gap between films were only one or two years. A main critique on NTTD in the media was that people really need to remember everything that happened in Spectre or even in older Bond films. However, most people who watch Bond film are no true Bond fans who have watched every film several times.
    I also think that it is not too farfetched that Bond simply got over Tracy. They hardly knew each other and Bond is an experienced 00 agent. He has learned to deal with such tragic losses.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 16,147
    GBF wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I think DAF works fine as either a follow up to OHMSS, or a stand alone entry.
    I like to think Bond's grievance of Tracy occurred off screen during the two years between films and the result being a Bond not quite as fit as before. By the PTS he's reached the anger stage of grievance and will trample anybody getting in the way of his search for Blofeld.
    After he seemingly has disposed of Blofeld he's ready to get back to his old self and this lighthearted assignment pushes him back in that direction: gambling in Vegas, flirting with Plenty as well as Tiffany and doing a little detective work investigating the diamonds. Scaling the Whyte House, and climbing beneath the oil rig gives him a little exercise to begin to get back into shape. After all, Tracy wouldn't want him moping and whining about her for the next 15 years.
    This comes full circle when the real Blofeld returns and Bond finally gets to dispose of him and save the world yet again. The issue of marriage is hinted at by Tiffany which Bond promises to think about before answering. Luckily he doesn't have to dwell on this issue for too long as moments later she's changed her mind and the subject of her question to him.
    It's certainly not a thorough follow up in this day and age of story arcs. And, it probably does work better as a stand alone for 1971 audiences who chose to skip OHMSS regardless. Still, there's enough there for me to enjoy the film as either.

    Yes, I tend to agree. 50 years ago, Bond films were much more seen as standalone films, even though the gap between films were only one or two years. A main critique on NTTD in the media was that people really need to remember everything that happened in Spectre or even in older Bond films. However, most people who watch Bond film are no true Bond fans who have watched every film several times.
    I also think that it is not too farfetched that Bond simply got over Tracy. They hardly knew each other and Bond is an experienced 00 agent. He has learned to deal with such tragic losses.

    I had someone ask me if he should re-watch SP before NTTD as he had only seen it once back in 2015. Barely remembered anything about it except it was a Craig film. I suggested OHMSS instead to get a feel for the type of Bond film NTTD was going for. He chose SP. Kind of shows that audiences today are very accustomed to story arcs in franchises.
  • Posts: 1,916
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I think DAF works fine as either a follow up to OHMSS, or a stand alone entry.
    I like to think Bond's grievance of Tracy occurred off screen during the two years between films and the result being a Bond not quite as fit as before. By the PTS he's reached the anger stage of grievance and will trample anybody getting in the way of his search for Blofeld.
    After he seemingly has disposed of Blofeld he's ready to get back to his old self and this lighthearted assignment pushes him back in that direction: gambling in Vegas, flirting with Plenty as well as Tiffany and doing a little detective work investigating the diamonds. Scaling the Whyte House, and climbing beneath the oil rig gives him a little exercise to begin to get back into shape. After all, Tracy wouldn't want him moping and whining about her for the next 15 years.
    This comes full circle when the real Blofeld returns and Bond finally gets to dispose of him and save the world yet again. The issue of marriage is hinted at by Tiffany which Bond promises to think about before answering. Luckily he doesn't have to dwell on this issue for too long as moments later she's changed her mind and the subject of her question to him.
    It's certainly not a thorough follow up in this day and age of story arcs. And, it probably does work better as a stand alone for 1971 audiences who chose to skip OHMSS regardless. Still, there's enough there for me to enjoy the film as either.

    Nice take. Too many people want to slag DAF on the basis it wasn't the desired revenge follow-up to OHMSS. It works just fine on its own.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 54
    Something negative:
    I’ve always disliked the “hard rock” rendition of the Bond theme that accompanied the Goldeneye teaser and a ton of Bond related marketing in the late ‘90s. It does work well in the context of the GE teaser, but man those squealing guitars get grating when the song popped up in other places.

    Something positive:
    I’ve always loved Moby’s techno take on the Bond theme from TND. Wish they’d used it during an action sequence in the film somewhere to make it “Bond ‘97” ala Bond ‘77.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    “Die Another Day” is the best Brosnan era title song.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    “Die Another Day” is the best Brosnan era title song.

    I like it a lot, but TWINE is a bit better IMHO. Surrender is the absolute best, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    And I think those two are bland. Especially “Surrender”, which I fully support EON’s decision in scrapping that for the replacement song (which I also think is crappy anyway).

    “GoldenEye” is just okay.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    And I think those two are bland. Especially “Surrender”, which I fully support EON’s decision in scrapping that for the replacement song (which I also think is crappy anyway).

    “GoldenEye” is just okay.
    Man, you are hostile.
    Enjoy some stuff.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    Hostile? You should see what critics of DAD say. ;)
  • Posts: 727
    The Brosnan films aged poorly and way too American. Thank god for Craig bringing back the British class for Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    I’m definitely glad EON stopped casting American it girls after the Brosnan era. I understand that was more of a MGM mandate, but just glad it stopped being enforced.
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