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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Hahahahaha!!! ;)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    Here's one, the Bond series as a whole is quite mediocre.

    If I might ask, why are you here with 3,561 posts primarily discussing the Bond series? While logic tells us that half the films are below average, a series can't survive for over 0 years and 23 (soon to be 24), by being quite mediocre, as @RC7 said. The '60's movies were some of the biggest hits the cinema had ever seen and helped change the culture and cinema. I admit that you'd have a stronger case if you had just meant the 70's, 80's, and 90's, when the series was more reactive, but even then there were some quite excellent movies. The Spy Who Loved Me, the Daltons, and GoldenEye stand out for their ability to capture the spirit of the series and at the same time play with the audience's expectations.

    The Craig years, while undoubtedly influenced by Bourne and the weaknesses of Brosnan's tenure, have still forged ahead to a degree not seen since Connery, and been for the most part very successful. Quantum of Solace was very mixed bag, but it was hurt by the writer's strike (and at times its director), and is not as good an example as Casino Royale and Skyfall, both of which had more time and attention and turned out to be top-flight entries into the series.

    I'm here because I'm a Bond fan and I do enjoy the series for x amount of reasons but I just think the series has more bad entries than good ones overall and I'm secure in myself as a fan to acknowledge the series' weaknesses and the such like but that's just me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    Perhaps I'm brainwashed by a fan's love but I disagree on the balance between poor and good Bond films.

    IMO:
    1) The balance tips in favour of the good Bond films.
    2) Even some of the weaker Bond films (TMWTGG, AVTAK, ...) are among the stronger cinematic achievements of their time and within the confines of the thriller / spy / action genre. Even when plots disappoint, on a purely technical level most if not all Bond films tend to be amazing. E.g. MR.
    3) The stronger Bond films are, overall, also strong films - period. For example, FRWL is not merely a great Bond film; it's a great film and one that puts many other films of the early 60s to shame.

    I can't stress enough, that this is all IMO. :-)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    First, it's got this character called James Bond in it, and the character is played as a fellow named Ian Fleming would have liked.

    That's a matter of opinion. For me LTK does end up less than the sum of its parts and I can only echo the comments others have made that it feels too American and Miami Vice-ish. It does however deliver better set pieces than Lethal Weapon 2, Batman and Indy 3 (although the tank scene is pretty fine) which makes it even more of a tragedy it got trounced by them.

    I think of all the Bond films LTK probably suffers most from having a journeyman director like Glen. Imagine what Mendes could have done with that script and Dalton.
    RC7 wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    Instead of "the whole series is mediocre" (this series gave us at least three of the best movies ever made) my opinion is that "especially when you consider that this is my favourite film series, a significant portion of said films is rather poor"; of the 23 films, there are nine I consider to be between "kinda bad" and "among the worst films ever made" and only fourteen that range from "good" to "among the best films ever made".

    You consider 'nine' of the Bond films amongst the worst films ever made? There's controversial and there's bat-shit insane.

    Or read my post properly? I said nine RANGE from "kinda bad" (e.g. Goldfinger) to "among the worst films ever made" (e.g. AVTAK, DAD).

    You're still talking out of your arse though. GF is nowhere near being a 'kinda bad' movie, and AVTAK and DAD are certainly nowhere near being the worst films ever made. Have you ever seen 'Freddie Got Fingered', 'Catwoman', 'Gigli', 'Howard The Duck'? That's just for starters, there are hundreds of movies that rank lower than any Bond movie in terms of cinematic aptitude. I can understand one disliking specific entries in the context of the series, but if you genuinely think the above are amongst the worst films ever made, you've clearly not seen a lot of films, or you're, as I say, insane.

    Never heard of Superman IV, Movie 43 or The Room? It's actually pretty insulting to EON to label even DAD which is at least competently (CGI aside) made and has some impressive ice driving to recommend it for you someone to make such a claim. RC7 has it pretty much spot on here.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Perhaps I'm brainwashed by a fan's love
    You say that like it might be a bad thing DD...
    DarthDimi wrote:
    3) The stronger Bond films are, overall, also strong films - period. For example, FRWL is not merely a great Bond film; it's a great film and one that puts many other films of the early 60s to shame.
    Agreed. Bond set a standard. Other films copied that, mostly badly. Even Bourne was influenced by- get this- Octopussy. Bond on the outside of an aircraft?!? Preposterous! But Moore's movie made it seem possible somehow. And Bourne found a way to make this kind of near-superheroic stuff feasible. Then the Bond movies brought that kind of action back down a bit, whilst preserving the believability & intensity.
    All movies influence & borrow from each other.
    But where other series fall by the wayside eventually, Bond, much like the Borg, ADAPTS. :))
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited December 2013 Posts: 2,402
    I find DAD, DAF, MR and AVTAK all pretty unwatchable, actually. I only sit through them for a Bondathon. At least I get a good laugh out of The Room.

    It'd be nice if I wasn't belittled or called insane for an opinion. @00Beast was right; it happens far too often on here.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I find DAD, DAF, MR and AVTAK all pretty unwatchable, actually. I only sit through them for a Bondathon. At least I get a good laugh out of The Room.
    I'll admit to not owning MR or AVTAK. But DAD & DAF are fun IMO, and I can watch them over & over.
    b-(
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    chrisisall wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I find DAD, DAF, MR and AVTAK all pretty unwatchable, actually. I only sit through them for a Bondathon. At least I get a good laugh out of The Room.
    I'll admit to not owning MR or AVTAK. But DAD & DAF are fun IMO, and I can watch them over & over.
    b-(

    No matter how much i boo and hiss at films like MR and DAD, i still would take them over hundreds of other films i have seen and not necessarily hated.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:

    No matter how much i boo and hiss at films like MR and DAD, i still would take them over hundreds of other films i have seen and not necessarily hated.

    If you hate a film, at least you care; there are a thousand films I've forgotten and will never even think of again....
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    chrisisall wrote:
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:

    No matter how much i boo and hiss at films like MR and DAD, i still would take them over hundreds of other films i have seen and not necessarily hated.

    If you hate a film, at least you care; there are a thousand films I've forgotten and will never even think of again....

    a valid point, but while i remember hating films like Elysium and Scary Movie 4, if MR and DAD came on TV i would watch to the end whereas i would turn the channel if those did.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    if MR and DAD came on TV i would watch to the end whereas i would turn the channel if those did.
    You still watch televised broadcasts?
    So retro...
    :))
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    chrisisall wrote:
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    if MR and DAD came on TV i would watch to the end whereas i would turn the channel if those did.
    You still watch televised broadcasts?
    So retro...
    :))

    the fios supreme movie/sports package isn't cheap, i may as well get my money's worth!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    It'd be nice if I wasn't belittled or called insane for an opinion.
    Yeah, I hear ya. I love TMWTGG, and that makes ME crazy... 8-|
  • LeighBurneLeighBurne
    Posts: 57
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I find DAD, DAF, MR and AVTAK all pretty unwatchable, actually. I only sit through them for a Bondathon. At least I get a good laugh out of The Room.

    It'd be nice if I wasn't belittled or called insane for an opinion. @00Beast was right; it happens far too often on here.
    Personally, while I don't agree, I can see where you're coming from. Truly terrible movies tend to have a lot of laugh value (watching Superman IV slightly drunk with a couple of friends was one of the greatest movie experiences I've ever had in my entire life), whereas the Bond films I consider to be frustratingly bad (DAF, TMWTGG and DAD) on the whole fail to entertain me on any level. I can't even laugh at them, they just have very little to excite me, whether genuinely or ironically.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited December 2013 Posts: 2,402
    LeighBurne wrote:
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    I find DAD, DAF, MR and AVTAK all pretty unwatchable, actually. I only sit through them for a Bondathon. At least I get a good laugh out of The Room.

    It'd be nice if I wasn't belittled or called insane for an opinion. @00Beast was right; it happens far too often on here.
    Personally, while I don't agree, I can see where you're coming from. Truly terrible movies tend to have a lot of laugh value (watching Superman IV slightly drunk with a couple of friends was one of the greatest movie experiences I've ever had in my entire life), whereas the Bond films I consider to be frustratingly bad (DAF, TMWTGG and DAD) on the whole fail to entertain me on any level. I can't even laugh at them, they just have very little to excite me, whether genuinely or ironically.

    DAD is a start-to-finish shouting match with my television.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2013 Posts: 45,489
    DAD is a start-to-finish shouting match with my television..[/quote]

    And all the poor dude wanted was to make another FRWL. At least he said so before shooting. :(
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    It'd be nice if I wasn't belittled or called insane for an opinion. @00Beast was right; it happens far too often on here.

    Sticks and stones. I clearly don't think you're actually insane. Maybe a little. I can find plenty of redeemable qualities in the films noted above.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Atrocious Bond Films:
    DAD

    Bad Bond Films:
    TWINE
    OP

    Average Bond Films:
    YOLT
    MR
    AVTAK
    QOS
    GF

    Good Bond Films:
    DN
    TB
    LALD
    Gun
    Spy
    FYEO
    TND

    Brilliant Bond Films:

    FRWL
    OHMSS
    DAF
    TLD
    LTK
    GE
    CR
    SF

    Hence, by my reckoning, 13% of Bond films are subpar; 22% are average, while 65% are above average. That's a dam' good track record.
  • fjdinardofjdinardo
    Posts: 1,970
    My list will be controversal for sure

    Atrocious Bond Films:
    QOS

    Bad Bond Films:
    Dr. No
    Tomorrow Never Dies

    Average Bond Films:
    Live and Let Die
    YOLT
    Die Another Day

    Good Bond Films:
    Goldfinger
    Diamonds are Forever
    The Living Daylights
    TMWTGG
    Licence to Kill
    FYEO
    Casino Royale

    Brilliant Bond Films:
    FRWL
    Skyfall
    OHMSS
    AVTAK
    Goldeneye
    Octopussy
    Thunderball
    TSWLM
    Moonraker
    The World is not Enough
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited December 2013 Posts: 12,837
    If you think any of the Bond films are among the worst films ever made then you haven't seen that many films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,789
    Atrocious Bond Films:
    MR

    Bad Bond Films:
    NSNA

    Average Bond films
    DAF
    LALD
    AVTAK
    DAD

    Good Bond Films:
    DN
    GF
    TB
    YOLT
    TMWTGG
    TSWLM
    FYEO
    OP
    TWINE
    QOS
    SF

    Brilliant Bond Films:
    FRWL
    OHMSS
    TLD
    LTK
    GE
    TND
    CR


  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think that the good Bond films outweigh the bad, for sure. I am biased to the early Connery and Craig films primarily, so those are ones I would call classic, brilliant and or masterful films, especially DN, FRWL and CR. As for the Moore era which are my least watched era, though I don't like how Bond is portrayed the films themselves truly are pieces of art, featuring some of the greatest stunt work, location shooting, sets, music and cinematography imaginable, which more than makes up for their shortcomings. The only film in the series that I could even find a little appalling on a "worst film scale" would be DAD, but that's namely because of Tamahori and that script...and *cough* Halle *cough*. People give flack to Pierce for that film, but he was not even close to being the issue there, and remains one of the few reasons to ever watch it.

    As I said in my opener, I think the good films outweigh the bad here. You have classics like DN, FRWL, GF, OHMSS and more that, love 'em or hate 'em, helped give Bond the iconic image he holds today. Other films both before and after them may have their issues, as some of the Moore films do for me, but overall even the more lack luster efforts have great things about them that make them a thousand times greater than a truly bad film. Bad films are unwatchable, cringe-worthy and show no substance or grand filmmaking shine, whereas a vast majority of the Bond films are well put together pieces of entertainment, some of which have gone beyond normal action films and earned an influential legacy of their own. It's Bond so I'll always be biased, but I truly count the vast majority of these films as the pinnacles of the cinematic art form.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    If you think any of the Bond films are among the worst films ever made then you haven't seen that many films.

    Agreed.

    Motor Home Massacre, Don't Go Into The Woods Alone, The Rage: Carrie 2, Captain America II: Death Too Soon, ...

    By comparison, DAD is on the level of Citizen Kane.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    Paraphrasing Miguel de Cervantes, there ain't a bad Bond movie that doesn't have something good. If one don't like Moore's films because they are too comical, one can certainly appreciate them because of cinematography or the score (I'm thinking on MR) or certain portrayal (Christopher Lee for example) or for the stunts. Brosnan's are good on the action. Even DAF has some redeeming qualities. And if another one doesn't like Craig's for their seriousness, one could acclaim them for the acting, the stories, ecc.

    A franchise that have tried most of the times to innovate or to give a solid film, couldn't be blamed for being mediocre. Taking the "average" of the Bond films isn't exactly zero. Of course, not every single one is a FRWL or CR, but as the Man said, "you can't win them all".
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    @0013, that's how I look at some of my least favorite Bond films, which come absolutely nowhere close to "the worst films I've ever seen." Even in your most hated Bond films, there's going to be something enjoyable.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Even though I won't watch MR again any time soon, I do love Medding's FX, and Barry's music. And Rog, of course.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    Actually, I think MR has aged quite well. Its concept may have been extremely outlandish in '79, but with all this privatisation of space flight and whatnot, it seems that modern times are catching up with MR. Many of the film's ideas will forever remain pretty outlandish for a Bond film, but the technical stuff is definitely throwing off its layers of fantasy nowadays.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Sound in space. Lasers everywhere. Jaws. Dolly. Ultra-fake zero-G.

    I.... I just can't deal.... don't hate me.... =;
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    chrisisall wrote:
    Sound in space. Lasers everywhere. Jaws. Dolly. Ultra-fake zero-G.

    I.... I just can't deal.... don't hate me.... =;

    Yeah okay, like I said, some ideas will never work. But the sounds in space is a common mistake. I choose to ignore that when watching MR. ;-)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,789
    DarthDimi wrote:
    the sounds in space is a common mistake. I choose to ignore that when watching MR. ;-)
    In space, no one can hear you scream. Or fart. Or even blow up (unless they're in the blast radius). Actually, the other four elements I listed bug me a whole lot more.
    b-(
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