Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 12,466
    I've mostly seen people say Skyfall is the best Craig film, and while I absolutely love it, I think Casino has an edge. @doubleoego, I actually love the last act of the film. Some of my favorite Bond moments there. But hey that's what this thread is for haha
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    FoxRox wrote:
    I've mostly seen people say Skyfall is the best Craig film, and while I absolutely love it, I think Casino has an edge. @doubleoego, I actually love the last act of the film. Some of my favorite Bond moments there. But hey that's what this thread is for haha

    I'd say the third act is probably my favorite. I love the PTS and title song, but I feel like the film drags for quite a long time after that.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    I've mostly seen people say Skyfall is the best Craig film, and while I absolutely love it, I think Casino has an edge. @doubleoego, I actually love the last act of the film. Some of my favorite Bond moments there. But hey that's what this thread is for haha

    I'd say the third act is probably my favorite. I love the PTS and title song, but I feel like the film drags for quite a long time after that.

    To my mind, the first half of the film--concluding with Silva's capture on the island--is the strongest.

  • Posts: 9,846
    Skyfall's ending had me pumped yet the film is still just weak sorry it just felt like to much of Craig trying to do a moore bond film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    SF is just cut up with what I really enjoy and what drags for me. PTS/title song is great, then from there until some scenes in Shanghai, it drags. After that, Macau really drags on for me, I'm just not into the scenes from that point. Then, from the shower scene until Silva's capture it's good, and then it drags once more for quite some time for me, concluding around the time Bond is giving chase. After that, it's golden for me.
  • My main issue with Skyfall is what it does to the backstory CR and QoS set up. I feel like Skyfall is like, "Vesper? Who's that? Bond has mommy issues!". For me it's like Fiona Volpe personified in a film: looks and sounds utterly cool and amazing, but get really involved and it stabs you in the back.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @hildebrand_rarity, with that, though, if Bond was still talking about Vesper, people would complain that it's a soap opera and he couldn't get over her. He finally came to terms with the events during the finale of QoS, so there's no need for her to be brought back. I know Bond is more seasoned as an agent now than he was in CR and QoS, I just didn't like how he managed to kick so much ass in those two films but his fighting style isn't as brutal as it was in them. He does manage to get thrown around and beaten quite a lot in SF.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Have a few more of my opinions to add:
    -Always loved Dr No more than From Russia with Love, always will
    -Cant remember if i said so, but From Russia with Love and Thunderball are the most overrated Bond films
    -After Blofeld, Dr. No is the best villain related to SPECTRE
    -Sean Connery wouldn't have made On Her Majesty's Secret Service a better (or worse) movie
  • Posts: 107
    I am glad Dame Judi Dench is out of the picture.

    The scene in Diamonds Are Forever when the Chinese missiles explode were the most embarrassing special effects in the entire series. Worse than CGI surfing.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    @hildebrand_rarity, with that, though, if Bond was still talking about Vesper, people would complain that it's a soap opera and he couldn't get over her. He finally came to terms with the events during the finale of QoS, so there's no need for her to be brought back. I know Bond is more seasoned as an agent now than he was in CR and QoS, I just didn't like how he managed to kick so much ass in those two films but his fighting style isn't as brutal as it was in them. He does manage to get thrown around and beaten quite a lot in SF.

    @Creasy47 I don't have a problem with leaving Vesper behind, my main problem was them introducing a whole new angle with Bond's unresolved childhood trauma
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Creasy47 wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    I've mostly seen people say Skyfall is the best Craig film, and while I absolutely love it, I think Casino has an edge. @doubleoego, I actually love the last act of the film. Some of my favorite Bond moments there. But hey that's what this thread is for haha

    I'd say the third act is probably my favorite. I love the PTS and title song, but I feel like the film drags for quite a long time after that.

    To my mind, the first half of the film--concluding with Silva's capture on the island--is the strongest.

    I agree, I think once Silva escapes it goes downhill, because it starts to fall apart a bit if you think about it too much. I do like the finale though.
  • FoxRox wrote:
    Have a few more of my opinions to add:
    -Always loved Dr No more than From Russia with Love, always will
    -Cant remember if i said so, but From Russia with Love and Thunderball are the most overrated Bond films
    -After Blofeld, Dr. No is the best villain related to SPECTRE
    -Sean Connery wouldn't have made On Her Majesty's Secret Service a better (or worse) movie

    I think you can make a strong case for this opinion. Hence, despite Laz's occasional awkwardness, his performance in OHMSS was much better than Seanery's in YOLT.

  • Posts: 12,466
    FoxRox wrote:
    Have a few more of my opinions to add:
    -Always loved Dr No more than From Russia with Love, always will
    -Cant remember if i said so, but From Russia with Love and Thunderball are the most overrated Bond films
    -After Blofeld, Dr. No is the best villain related to SPECTRE
    -Sean Connery wouldn't have made On Her Majesty's Secret Service a better (or worse) movie

    I think you can make a strong case for this opinion. Hence, despite Laz's occasional awkwardness, his performance in OHMSS was much better than Seanery's in YOLT.

    Well for one thing, I thought Lazenby did a great job overall as Bond, and he's actually one of my favorite actors to play the role. Also, Connery never demonstrated the ability to do a more human, emotional side to Bond in his tenure the way Lazenby does in OHMSS. It was just totally different from what Connery's style was, and it might have come out awkward if he had done it.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @hildebrand_rarity, it's not a whole new angle. It's been with Bond ever since he was a young lad, he just has to focus on it now once it gets brought up in a word association test, then once more when he hides M out there. That's it, it wasn't the entire focus of the film.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Here's one: in spite of his talent and regardless of the quality of his movies, casting Timothy Dalton was a poor commercial move.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Ludovico wrote:
    Here's one: in spite of his talent and regardless of the quality of his movies, casting Timothy Dalton was a poor commercial move.

    His films made money, so I don't see how it was a poor commercial move.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 15,114
    Ludovico wrote:
    Here's one: in spite of his talent and regardless of the quality of his movies, casting Timothy Dalton was a poor commercial move.

    His films made money, so I don't see how it was a poor commercial move.

    So did OHMSS. He was never accepted as Bond by the general public. It's unfair, but that's how it is. Inversely, and regardless of his limits as an actor, casting Brosnan was a necessary commercial move, and a good one. GE wouldn't have worked as well with Dalton. It may have been a better movie, but it wouldn't have been as successful. (And keeping in mind that it is obviously speculative).
  • I agree that he shouldn't have been in GE (casting Brosnan was just what the series needed), but his films made enough money and he was a brilliant Bond so I don't see how casting him was a bad move at all.
  • Posts: 15,114
    I agree that he shouldn't have been in GE (casting Brosnan was just what the series needed), but his films made enough money and he was a brilliant Bond so I don't see how casting him was a bad move at all.

    That's why I said commercially. I.e. regardless of the quality of his movies, yes they made money, but Bond was not as successful a franchise as it used to be. Granted, people were unfair to Dalton. But this is also why it was not commercially a good casting decision, like say Moore had been.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Ludovico wrote:
    I agree that he shouldn't have been in GE (casting Brosnan was just what the series needed), but his films made enough money and he was a brilliant Bond so I don't see how casting him was a bad move at all.

    That's why I said commercially. I.e. regardless of the quality of his movies, yes they made money, but Bond was not as successful a franchise as it used to be. Granted, people were unfair to Dalton. But this is also why it was not commercially a good casting decision, like say Moore had been.

    TLD was more successful at the B.O. than AVTAK and OP and LTK was only considered a failure in the US because of a diabolical marketing campaign from MGM/UA (it did very well internationally). So I'm not sure it's fair to call Dalton a 'poor commercial move'.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Chang wrote:
    I am glad Dame Judi Dench is out of the picture.

    The scene in Diamonds Are Forever when the Chinese missiles explode were the most embarrassing special effects in the entire series. Worse than CGI surfing.

    Quite true. They must have run out of time or budget or both. Embarrassing, yes. I even call them insulting myself. Those effect were far beneath the averages provided by the 60s Bonds.

  • DarthDimi wrote:
    Chang wrote:
    I am glad Dame Judi Dench is out of the picture.

    The scene in Diamonds Are Forever when the Chinese missiles explode were the most embarrassing special effects in the entire series. Worse than CGI surfing.

    Quite true. They must have run out of time or budget or both. Embarrassing, yes. I even call them insulting myself. Those effect were far beneath the averages provided by the 60s Bonds.

    Those special effects may have been poor, but the scene was so brief that they hardly detract from my enjoyment of DAF.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Chang wrote:
    I am glad Dame Judi Dench is out of the picture.

    The scene in Diamonds Are Forever when the Chinese missiles explode were the most embarrassing special effects in the entire series. Worse than CGI surfing.

    Quite true. They must have run out of time or budget or both. Embarrassing, yes. I even call them insulting myself. Those effect were far beneath the averages provided by the 60s Bonds.

    Those special effects may have been poor, but the scene was so brief that they hardly detract from my enjoyment of DAF.

    That's something else entirely. I agree that my affection for DAF is hardly influenced by the quality of the effects. It's a brilliant film IMO and certainly not the 'worst' in the series. Not by a long shot. It's quirky to the max but also vastly more entertaining than several other Bond films that take themselves way too seriously. I'm not lying when I say that I prefer DAF over QOS in many respects (but not in all). Barry's great score is at least one good reason to watch the film over and over again.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Not sure if this will qualify as controversial, but SWLM as a top 5 Bond film for me (granted, #5). Watched it earlier today, just love it.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Ludovico wrote:
    I agree that he shouldn't have been in GE (casting Brosnan was just what the series needed), but his films made enough money and he was a brilliant Bond so I don't see how casting him was a bad move at all.

    That's why I said commercially. I.e. regardless of the quality of his movies, yes they made money, but Bond was not as successful a franchise as it used to be. Granted, people were unfair to Dalton. But this is also why it was not commercially a good casting decision, like say Moore had been.

    TLD was more successful at the B.O. than AVTAK and OP and LTK was only considered a failure in the US because of a diabolical marketing campaign from MGM/UA (it did very well internationally). So I'm not sure it's fair to call Dalton a 'poor commercial move'.

    Maybe I am being unfair.
  • Posts: 15,114
    I know it was mentioned before in this thread, but I am watching GE at the moment and while Trevelyan is a very capable physical adversary, he is not entirely convincing as the leader of a criminal organization.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    I know it was mentioned before in this thread, but I am watching GE at the moment and while Trevelyan is a very capable physical adversary, he is not entirely convincing as the leader of a criminal organization.

    Why do you say that? I never had any particular problem with it, personally, and we never really see him doing much of the day-to-day work of leading the crime syndicate.

    @FoxRox, TSWLM is just out of my top five, but it's definitely a top-tier entry in the series and the best entry of Moore's tenure.

    @DarthDimi, the score for DAF is indeed wonderful. Sleazy, yet awesome.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Janus is set up at this shadowy, SPECTRE-like syndicate, but Trevelyan, after an excellent entrance ends up being thwarted every minute, barking orders and losing his cool. Don't get me wrong, I love GE, it is a solid Bond movie and Sean Bean is an amazing actor. However, I often felt that Trevelyan was slightly undercooked. Threatening, yes. But not quite the leader he is build up to be.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    The worst scene in the entire series is the "Circus Circus" in DAF, it is truly cringeworthy and appaling in all kinds of ways. Long scenes of children shooting on balloons with water-pistol and a totally worthless scene where a black woman turns into a gorilla. Yeah, that's suitable for a Bond-film.. That's the only scene in the franchise that i skip over.

    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF. And is easily top-5 material.
  • Posts: 6,396
    MrBond wrote:
    The worst scene in the entire series is the "Circus Circus" in DAF, it is truly cringeworthy and appaling in all kinds of ways. Long scenes of children shooting on balloons with water-pistol and a totally worthless scene where a black woman turns into a gorilla. Yeah, that's suitable for a Bond-film.. That's the only scene in the franchise that i skip over.

    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF. And is easily top-5 material.

    Care to elaborate on that one?
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