On Her Majesty's Secret Service- Very overrated?

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2014 Posts: 12,480
    That's a lot to base 6 minutes on;)

    Your personal six minutes of fame or how long your own humor lasts at a stretch?

    Oh, perhaps you meant Moore. He had some good scenes, quite from Fleming, I'm not going argue with you about it though.

    Surely we have a thread comparing Flemingesque moments in films ... I'll go look for it now.

    This is is supposed to be OHMSS mainly, so I'll leave you to it.
  • Posts: 1,146
    That's a lot to base 6 minutes on;)

    Your personal six minutes of fame or how long your own humor lasts at a stretch?

    Oh, perhaps you meant Moore. He had some good scenes, quite from Fleming, I'm not going argue with you about it though.

    Surely we have a thread comparing Flemingesque moments in films ... I'll go look for it now.

    This is is supposed to be OHMSS mainly, so I'll leave you to it.

    Give me one good fight scene that Moore was involved in, and I'll give you five from Connery, Lazenby and Craig.

    The guy just does not stack up.

    Super tired of the suave, soft, never get my hair out of place Bond.

    Gimme a tough guy.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Fleming's Bond was more than a "tough guy". Quite a bit more.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Yes, but he WAS tough, not a clown suit-wearing softie.

    Gimme a memorable Moore fight.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    No, I am not going to argue with you here.
    I am sincerely looking for the Fleming thread, though, and will continue there later.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes, but he WAS tough, not a clown suit-wearing softie.

    Gimme a memorable Moore fight.

    I am constantly amazed by how people completely miss the point of the clown scene. If you don't get that one scene it's no wonder you don't get Sir Rog.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Okay, I miss the point, still, gimme a memorable Moore fight scene.

    Just one. Just one for a supposed action/adventure hero.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I'll admit Moore wasn't great in the fight scenes BUT in his defence I think there was an "old pro" quality about him when he played it straighter. Moore was/is part of the "old guard" of charismatic English stars.
  • Posts: 1,146
    I respect that admission.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Now if we could ever get him out of that clown suit…
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    The clown suit served a good purpose, even if it is not fathomable for you.
    Bond is more than an "action/adventure" hero.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I'd rather he got out of that silly costume during the Magnificent Seven scene in MR.
  • Posts: 1,146
    He's a spy, being able to fight is a basic.

    I know the clown suit serves a purpose, but it also shows how far the franchise had fallen.

    Think Connery, Lazenby or Craig would ever do that? Or even Dalton? I'd like to think that even Broz would object.

    Nope, only the Moore would stoop so low.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Thank you for the snide remark from the poster above.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Is it ok to bash Moore? Brosnan gets it plenty, I just need to know if Moore is untouchable here
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Actually, no Bond is untouchable and no Bond should be bashed. Bashing is not okay and does not lead to any kind of good discussion or arguments. You can dislike any Bond actor, or champion any Bond actor. I know Brosnan gets more than his share of bashing. I hate bashing of any actor on this forum.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Brosnan does get it quite a bit, which really gets annoying when it extends to either roger Moore or George lazenby and then certain people jump up and say you can't do that!! It's wrong
  • Posts: 1,146
    Is it ok to bash Moore? Brosnan gets it plenty, I just need to know if Moore is untouchable here

    Nobody is untouchable. Bad and good are both earned and should be judged as such. The ones that don't want bashing are just defensive because they champion those who are usually bashed.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    I'm on record as only really liking Connery in 5/6 of his eon bonds; like ohmss in spite of lazenby; don't care for roger Moore at all; liked Dalton's two; like brosnan more than his films; and really enjoy daniel Craig's bond movies a lot.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited December 2014 Posts: 12,480
    You can definitely criticize any Bond, in my opinion, on this forum. What makes people wary or upset here (correct me or add to this, other longstanding members) is strong bashing and continual whining. It is just the tone, overall negativity and juvenile namecalling, belittling, whining constantly how much you hate a certain actor or film (especially if just saying the same thing over and over again) etc. that crosses the line, becomes the not acceptable kind of bashing (as if there is a borderline area there ...), and then posters can get really rude, etc. It can go downhill quickly.

    By the way, I did not mean to come off as snide as it perhaps sounded, in my post above. Those were just my first thoughts and not meant as harsh as they probably read.

    I am going to update a Fleming thread soon, to modify it for discussing all the Bonds in light of Fleming's Bond.

    P.S. I love Brosnan's Bond.

  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    I like brosnans bond, too. He deserved better.
  • Posts: 11,425
    He's a spy, being able to fight is a basic.

    I know the clown suit serves a purpose, but it also shows how far the franchise had fallen.

    Think Connery, Lazenby or Craig would ever do that? Or even Dalton? I'd like to think that even Broz would object.

    Nope, only the Moore would stoop so low.

    You're so wrong. Being a spy is about fighting? Yeah right. Have you ever met a spy? How many ever fight? Getting into a fight is an admission of total failure for most spies.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes the spy vs. action hero mode ... there is a real distinction there.
    I understand Bond needs to be tough in a certain way, but I would never label Bond as an action tough guy. He is the consummate spy, which in itself means secretive and deceiving.

    Don't get me wrong:
    I loved Sean's Bond fighting Red Grant and winning on the train.
    I loved Roger's Bond kicking Locque's car over the cliff.
    I loved Brosnan's Bond dropping Trevalyan off that satellite after that fight.
    I loved Daniel Craig's stairwell fight with Obanna in CR.

    But the appeal of a Bond film is far more than that; that is all I am trying to emphasize.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    echo wrote: »
    <>
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The Angels of Death are essential to the story. And the fact that they are all innocent, carefree barely out of teenage, a tad ditzy young women is central to emphasize the very sinister nature of Blofeld's plot.

    I love the Angels of Death...for once the "eye candy" is an integral plot point.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Look at him in the presidio. Robin and Marian is also good. Also try the offense when he breaks down, or even the hill. A terrific actor who could have done wonders with ohmss


    it would have been amazing to see Sean in OHMSS. but would he have played it straight and vulnerable like Laz mostly did or would he already have been in DAF mode?

    one other thing - would they have cast Rigg or just some ditzy model?

    all in all we should be glad for what we got, which is a great movie. and laz takes credit for that as much as anyone IMO.


    Sean and Cubby agreed to bypass OHMSS and to proceed to YOLT which was the next novel. YOLT was heavily edited for the big screen cutting out Bond in mourning and M inventing a mission for Bond in Japan instead of firing him for not being of the mental state to carry out his duty. Perhaps the prior films success was based on Bond the action man womanizer and they thought OHMSS would have been to much of a change for what Seans portrayal was.

    I don't think they would have gone with a serious OHMSS after TB.

    What eventually happened with OHMSS was for the best. It was a one-off, but oh what a one-off.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    <>
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The Angels of Death are essential to the story. And the fact that they are all innocent, carefree barely out of teenage, a tad ditzy young women is central to emphasize the very sinister nature of Blofeld's plot.

    I love the Angels of Death...for once the "eye candy" is an integral plot point.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Look at him in the presidio. Robin and Marian is also good. Also try the offense when he breaks down, or even the hill. A terrific actor who could have done wonders with ohmss


    it would have been amazing to see Sean in OHMSS. but would he have played it straight and vulnerable like Laz mostly did or would he already have been in DAF mode?

    one other thing - would they have cast Rigg or just some ditzy model?

    all in all we should be glad for what we got, which is a great movie. and laz takes credit for that as much as anyone IMO.


    Sean and Cubby agreed to bypass OHMSS and to proceed to YOLT which was the next novel. YOLT was heavily edited for the big screen cutting out Bond in mourning and M inventing a mission for Bond in Japan instead of firing him for not being of the mental state to carry out his duty. Perhaps the prior films success was based on Bond the action man womanizer and they thought OHMSS would have been to much of a change for what Seans portrayal was.

    I don't think they would have gone with a serious OHMSS after TB. And I don't see Connery's Bond believably getting married.

    What eventually happened with OHMSS was for the best. It was a one-off, but oh what a one-off.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Moore's fight with those three thugs from TMWTGG was pretty good.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Until they showed the camera crew in the broken mirror;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Until they showed the camera crew in the broken mirror;)
    Occupational hazard. It doesn't ruin the fight though. Though the movie is still crap. But it has it's little moments. Moore and Lee and the funhouse scenes are that films saving graces.
  • Posts: 1,068
    Reading this very entertaining thread I find the polarising of "love' v's "hate" of each of the Bond actors quite weird and a bit sad.

    It strikes me I must be in a bit of a minority here in the fact that I really like ALL the Bond actors prettymuch an equal amount - the margins of difference are so slim and it usually only boils down to the actual film they're in not the actor themselves and even the mood I'm in when I feel like watching one of them - I can have a SC day as much as a PB one. I do mean this and am not just saying it for dramatic effect.

    It does seem to me they all had good and 'less good' films - there's always a GF/TB to a DAF, GE to DAD, LTK to TL and CR to QOS but I'll watch every one and not skip sections.

    I was introduced to Bond with the Moore films beginning with TSWLM so I have a bit of a soft spot with that particular film yet on growing more aware of LALD and TMWTGG, I see where the tone drifted to a point of being a parody of itself as the films went on yet I do love FYEO and AVTAK too. In any kind of discussion like this one, I feel any film always has to be viewed in the context of its time with its huge bearing on the mood and the presentation of the story depicted. As an example it seems around here that the Bond in outer space idea is very much unloved; yet I remember that in the 80's everything was a bit OTT, Reagan/Thatcher were all maxed up with the cold war arms race and the real shuttle program and the real "Starwars" so Moonraker fitted right in hand in glove along with massive consumerism and commercialisation of the day. Music videos and action films got more and more slicker as time passed and it seemed, to stand out, things needed to be ever more OTT so Bond did.

    With all this in mind, as I grew in affection and awareness for the older Bond films in the series I have to say I'm surprised that I have always just truly adored OHMSS and rate it as my no.1 Bond film. Yes, Savalas and Rigg depicted amazing characters with their immense screen presence and there's the breathtaking Barry score too which has to be the best of the series yet it's the whole package of OHMSS for me - I can take Lazenby totally as shown without any queasiness about 'wooden delivery of lines' or 'awkward' acting moments. As a pure Bond romp this one holds my attention all the way as it builds to that toe curling yet amazing ending. Icing on the cake is the location at Piz Gloria, it's quite something. If there was even a way I could magic it, I wouldn't change a single thing and it's the one of the lot I can watch over and over again - unlike some others in the series even where I do still like the actors!

    I confess, heresy here I know, I feel the least enthusiastic about viewing some of Sean's films now even though he IS the one for me that set the die for everything I reference in a split second when the words "James Bond" or "007" are mentioned. Maybe it's a bit of over familiarity as I truly have lost count of the many viewings I have had of all his films? I can picture Craig in my minds eye in a similar instant association so that speaks for how well the identity of Bond is working today even where I have strong personal issues with SF - I find the failure of Bond to protect M sits very uncomfortably in the series for me. Yes Tracy dies in OHMSS, as did Vesper too but if they'd lived happily ever after together with a family of baby Bonds, would we even be here now talking about a forthcoming Bond 24!?

    I still get goosebumps watching ascent to Blofeld's hideaway with GL in the helicoper and Barry's score building up as it flies over the avalanche debris...

    so OHMSS gets my vote and NO it's not overrated.

    And I don't know whether it's all in jest here but I can't see the point of all the 'bickering' about "my favourite Bond is better than your favourite Bond"!! :)>- ;) - they're ALL brilliant even with their flaws which is why the whole series is so loved and discussed by so many many people!!

    Anyhow, all the best for New Year's and have a great 2015
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Anyone who doesn't like Moore is a dick. Period.
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