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Dependent on a star? You mean Pepe?
Portugal's best game by far in the Euros was the one where they had the luxury of playing without Ronaldo!
They are basically a side designed for a knockout system. A selection of well organized, hard working team players that also know a bit about dark arts when necesarry... They know how to strangle a match and with some luck they might nick the one or two goals they need in the other end. As in the Euros '16 they shouldn't expect much from Ronaldo in that regard though, as his record in internatinal tournaments since 2006 has been desperately mediocre. Three goals in six matches against Iceland, Austria, Hungary, Kroatia, Poland and Wales was all he managed last time, and that as the goalgetter that has no other job than finishing of attacks...
However Portugal look stronger going forward this year as they have included Bernardo Silva and a couple of promising youngsters. However, Unless they have the same ammount of luck as two years ago, they shouldn't stand much of a chance against Europes heawy weights.
To be fair you’re right there. But there’s nothing in rules that says they can’t do that.
Yeah he didn’t do a lot, just the goals that saved them in the last group game when they were going out and the breakthrough goal in the SF. Pretty negligible contribution.
Remind me how many international winners medals Lionel has again? The Jurgen Klopp of international football.
Pathetique argument in the end there! So because Eder scored a brilliant solo goal to decide the Euro final with Ronaldo on the bench, it somehow proves that Ronaldo's international career is much better?
If Ronaldo had done his job in the matches against mighty Iceland and and Austria in the opening games (by that I mean not missing a series of obvious sitters as well as a penalty), Portugal wouldn't have been in desperate need of a result against Hungary in the first place. He more than anyone was responsible for the desperate situation they were in. His superstar achievement in the end was saving them to a third place that by normal sircumstances would have sent them home packing! That game against Hungary was his only good one in the tournament. Against Kroatia and Poland he was hardly visible for 240 minutes. If he really deserved the myth of being the star that "dragged Portugal to the final" he should probably have done something to make sure they didn't need a 118 minute goal from Queresma and a penalty shootout to progress against what should be inferior opposition, or what? The fact that he finally shows up in the semifinal to convert a great cross in a match where he again, apart from the goal, was very anonymous, is not exactly the stuff that makes super hero legends...
Ronaldo deserves credit where credit is due. He has been the best pure goalgetter at club level in the modern era (Messi in fairness has a higher goal ratio per season, but is not a pure goalgetter and has failed to deliver in the decisive games of the CL the last couple of seasons), and one of the best of all time. However, to give him credit for being the outstanding deciding factor in Portugals Euro Cup win, is simply ludicrous and not at all merited. What won them the title was an incredibly well organized defensive unit, a solid dosis of luck and a moment of solo magic from Eder in the final...
If you can take your Barca blinkers off for just a second...
I never claimed he ‘dragged Portugal to the final’ merely that he delivered when they were in the shit and going out and then again in the SF so his contribution warrants slightly better than your ‘desperately mediocre’ barb.
I agree with you that their park the bus and nick a goal tactics were what actually won them the tournament (how did tiki taka do in the Euros by the way?) but Ronaldo did intervene decisively at pretty crucial moments.
And yes Eder’s goal does mean that Ronaldo has had a better international career than Messi - because that means he has a winners medal!!! Who was the better player Geoff Hurst or Jimmy Greaves? They’re not even close but Hurst is the one who is immortal because he WON.
The history books will say Ronaldo is a Euro Winner and runner up plus a world Cup SF. Not too shabby given he is from a country that doesn’t have quality like Augero, Higuain, Di María and Mascherano to call on. Nani, Quaresma and Fonte hardly in that league are they?
Poor old Lionel sadly, unless he pulls it off this time, will never be able to spoken about in the same breath as Maradona for one simple reason.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/we-will-host-man-city-opening-day
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/304318-liverpool-fc-premier-league-fixtures-2018-19-revealed
https://www.mancity.com/fixtures/first-team
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2018/6/14/premier-league-fixture-announcement
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/first-team/fixtures/fixtures-2018-19-list-in-full-140618/
You didn´t say "he dragged them to the final", but you said Portugal are completely dependent on him. Which was the statement I challenged and which they are not as you have just admitted... Thanks for pointing out I am right!
Your prophecy of how Messis career will be judged is true if everyone has the same old school, tedius and frankly outdated philosophy of judging a players career on world cup success only. For your information, not everyone buys that narrative... There are so incredibly many small details and fortunes that need to come together for a player to win the world cup. Simply being the best individual player om a decent team isn´t enough.
And it doesn´t matter if Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria are great names on paper if they all collectively fail to deliver. Do you know how many goals Argentina´s selection of strikers (exluding Messi who scored 7 in eleven games) managed to score in qualification this time around? 3 goals. Yes three, divided on Higuain, Dybala, Di Maria, Icardi, Benedetto, Lanzini, Pavon etc... Through out the entire campaign. In the eight qulification games Messi didn´t play, Argentina managed only seven points out of a possible 24. What happened when these "star names" faced Spain not long ago without Messi? They lost 6-1. And how many goals have the similar players delivered in recent world cups? Barely a small handfull at best. There are far greater problems for this Argentina team than simply looking through a list of star names and adding them together as if this was a computer game... Although Maradona´s Argentina maybe had on paper less star names (although that narrative has been wastly exaggerated by the "but Maradona won it on his own" brigade) they certinly did a better job of supporting him and delivering when it mattered.
If you go looking on the internet you will find many players, managers, experts, journalists who have seen both Maradona and Messi in their prime and who concur Messi is the better of the two. People are making these statements without factoring in world cup succes. It is not obligatory. If Argentina somehow manage to find their feet, pull themselves together and pick a balansed team selection that cover up their defensive problems, key players step up, Messi is in top form and they have the necesarry luck in key moments, Argentina could win this world cup. But does Messis legacy depend on it? No.
Edit: And "how has Tiki-taka done in the Euros" you say? It won it twice back to back, that's all...
I’ve seen both Messi and Mardona in their prime. Diego different gravy son.
As for the resounding success of tiki taka over park the bus by my reckoning it’s 2-2 over the last four Euros ain’t it?
Anyway 15 mins to go and only Torge and me putting our reputations on the line in the fantasy league.
You and 001 talk a good game but where are you when it comes to demonstrating your managerial nous?
Bastard Ryanair has deposited me 90 mins late so now I’m racing from the airport across Dortmund to make kick off. Happy to miss out on Robbie (were Tatu unavailable?) but would have liked to have seen Vlad and Mr Ethical Reform Gianni walk on hand in hand.
It will be a great atmosphere no doubt, hopefully Russia will win this opener for a few reasons.
There are tons of people who disagree with you and who's judgement I respect considerably more than yours, I am sorry to say... (trying to come across not too disrespectful).
As for the Tiki-taka debate you somehow dragged into this, I don't know why you bother. The attempt at implying Tiki-taka has a bad record in Euros sort of backfired to put it mildly... That is not to say it is the only philosophy that can win. We are still waiting for your celebrated, proud 'Kick and run' to get there though...
As for this Fantasy game, I have long gone explained why I don't find it very interesting to partake in. I just don't see the allure in playing a guessing game of who is in form or not and then spending all games worrying about who is performing or not performing. I'd much rather just lean back and enjoy the games as a normal football fan.
I hope you have a nice stay in Russia and that you get to see some good games! I am sure this is not our last discussion...
Vlad and the Sheikh as it went in priceless! Presume the Saudis have been paid in tanks and choppers to roll over?
That did cross my mind before kick off, it's entertaining though for the wrong reasons both sides are garbage.
Against Uruguay the Saudis might even outdo their own ineptitude benchmark when they got violated 8-0 by the Krauts in 02 - probably the most inept performance I’ve ever seen on a football field (Karius excepted).
…and it's 3-0.
Never thought I’d say it but it’s possible he might actually be a bigger c**t than Sepp!
Think they said on the TV here that it was the prince of Saudi Arabia or something.
5-0!
Putin's reaction to that fifth goal was classic.
Might not be the last we’ve seen of Islamic teams being garbage either:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/13/fast-friends-world-cup-squads-dealt-with-ramadan
Was it not the Saudi team that walked of the pitch at some World cup tournament after some fan blew a whistle on the stand and they stopped playing and the other team scored. And the referee refused to disallow it.
This team sucked but the Russians will not make it to second round either. Uruguay will have an easy first three matches. I rate Egypt a bit higher than both teams in action today.
Didn't count on a 5-goal game that's for sure! If not as many goals, at least the upcoming group fixtures are more entertaining on paper.
Not to late to join, folks! If you put up a team, you'll get points counted from round 2. :-)
Just registered and put a team together and joined Back of the Net lol