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"Back of the net!": The Football Thread

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  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    edited July 2019 Posts: 1,699
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    They've also moved on too much of their homegrown talent rather than nurturing. Selling Walcott and allowing Ramsey to leave was foolish, to say the least; ensuring Wilshere blithely and arrogantly didn't develop beyond his early twenties (and then sell him too) was criminal - in a parallel universe, theirs and England's midfield is built around him by now.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited July 2019 Posts: 17,757
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.

    Indeed. Arsenal badly need Holding back as soon as possible; Bellerín too. At the same time, they can't rush them back either…
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited July 2019 Posts: 19,339
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.

    Indeed. Arsenal badly need Holding back as soon as possible; Bellerín too. At the same time, they can't rush them back either…

    That's right...they still have a way to go yet unfortunately.

    Barca have signed Griezmann btw....any comment from our European correspondent @jobo ?
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.

    Indeed. Arsenal badly need Holding back as soon as possible; Bellerín too. At the same time, they can't rush them back either…

    That's right...they still have a way to go yet unfortunately.

    Bellerín is aiming for a return against Aston Villa in September. I guess Maitland-Niles will have that spot until then. I like Maitland-Niles though; I think he can be really good for Arsenal, given time.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.

    Indeed. Arsenal badly need Holding back as soon as possible; Bellerín too. At the same time, they can't rush them back either…

    That's right...they still have a way to go yet unfortunately.

    Bellerín is aiming for a return against Aston Villa in September. I guess Maitland-Niles will have that spot until then. I like Maitland-Niles though; I think he can be really good for Arsenal, given time.

    Indeed,he always gives 100% and can play in more than one position if need be.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.

    Indeed. Arsenal badly need Holding back as soon as possible; Bellerín too. At the same time, they can't rush them back either…

    That's right...they still have a way to go yet unfortunately.

    Bellerín is aiming for a return against Aston Villa in September. I guess Maitland-Niles will have that spot until then. I like Maitland-Niles though; I think he can be really good for Arsenal, given time.

    Indeed,he always gives 100% and can play in more than one position if need be.

    If there's something Arsenal need right now, it's players that can do a job in multiple positions on the pitch!
    __________

    At least some teams get what they want…

  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757

    This GOT to be fake news. :))
  • jobojobo
    edited July 2019 Posts: 7,507
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    St_George wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I won't be surprised to see them not strengthening the defence at all.

    Their problem has always been that, at the elite level (which is where they've aimed for in the last decade but, let's face it, haven't reached), quality defenders are thin on the ground and, therefore, very expensive. They simple haven't had the cash to splash around to compete in that limited marketplace. So, they haven't been able to replace the top-quality homegrown/ home-nurtured English defenders that formed their legendary backlines of the late '80s/ '90s (and the likes of Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole) when they retired, one after another, during the '00s.

    That's the never-ending issue for Arsenal; the budget. We know that won't be addressed at any point, so they'll need to find talent – an area where they haven't been at the top of their game either. There are a few interesting youngsters that have been promoted to the first team before this season, but none of them are defenders.

    Holding was showing much potential last season,he was our best defender until that bad injury.
    The rest simply are not good enough.

    Indeed. Arsenal badly need Holding back as soon as possible; Bellerín too. At the same time, they can't rush them back either…

    That's right...they still have a way to go yet unfortunately.

    Barca have signed Griezmann btw....any comment from our European correspondent @jobo ?

    It has been an iminent signing for months. But somehow it turned out complicated still. Barca decided to wait until after 1st of July to finalize the deal as the buy out clause dropped to 120 million from that date. Now Atlético are threatening legal action claiming that since Barca had aggreed personal terms with the player prior to that, they have to pay the old buy out clause of 200 million. Always drama...
  • conradhankersconradhankers Underground
    Posts: 229
    So Harry has asked to leave the Foxes. I think he's overrated and no pace. Having said that I want him to go to UTD and really cock it up for them . #YNWA :))
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,154
    Maguire is better than most of our center backs so I welcome him to Old Trafford, also we are desperate for a CB that can dominate in the air
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    He is decent, but Leicester are talking 85m
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,154
    vzok wrote: »
    He is decent, but Leicester are talking 85m

    The market is getting stupid, though there appears to be a dearth in decent CB's currently. United will try to lower the price though they can afford that price, Leicester will play on the fact we are desperate for a decent CB
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Maguire is better than most of our center backs so I welcome him to Old Trafford, also we are desperate for a CB that can dominate in the air

    Meanwhile…

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,154
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Maguire is better than most of our center backs so I welcome him to Old Trafford, also we are desperate for a CB that can dominate in the air

    Meanwhile…


    I read Koselny maybe on his way out, £8.8 price tag?
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Maguire is better than most of our center backs so I welcome him to Old Trafford, also we are desperate for a CB that can dominate in the air

    Meanwhile…


    I read Koselny maybe on his way out, £8.8 price tag?

    That's the latest, yes. If they get that price is another thing entirely.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,154
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Maguire is better than most of our center backs so I welcome him to Old Trafford, also we are desperate for a CB that can dominate in the air

    Meanwhile…


    I read Koselny maybe on his way out, £8.8 price tag?

    That's the latest, yes. If they get that price is another thing entirely.

    33 years old now? Is he not your best defender, has he clashed with the manager?
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited July 2019 Posts: 17,757
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Maguire is better than most of our center backs so I welcome him to Old Trafford, also we are desperate for a CB that can dominate in the air

    Meanwhile…


    I read Koselny maybe on his way out, £8.8 price tag?

    That's the latest, yes. If they get that price is another thing entirely.

    33 years old now? Is he not your best defender, has he clashed with the manager?

    There's been various claims as to why this happened, but it's been going back to how the club performed in latter parts of the season, and him believing they would let him go (presumably if an offer was made) – even if they extended the one-year extension to his contract. Something like that.

    I'm in two minds about this; Will he be in the starting eleven regularly, will he be used as a backup, and what can they gain by selling him?

    If they have in mind to use him often, then I understand the club completely. If he's to be used only now and then, I understand Koscielny a bit more. In any case, he's probably made it impossible for Emery to use him anyway, so they need to get a good deal for him. It's really a headache the club could be without though.
  • conradhankersconradhankers Underground
    edited July 2019 Posts: 229
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    He is decent, but Leicester are talking 85m

    The market is getting stupid, though there appears to be a dearth in decent CB's currently. United will try to lower the price though they can afford that price, Leicester will play on the fact we are desperate for a decent CB

    I don't know, the richest club in the world with a huge problem at the back they should just buy him if they think he'll solve a problem. I fear for UTD if they don't achieve success soon, their stock will drop and put pressure on their structured 1/2 billion dollar debt, limiting their ambitions. I hope so. ;)

    Now Arsenal are in a whole heap of trouble with their 40 million pound transfer budget this Summer. How can the owners think that is the right course of action? Arsenal are super rich with very little debt. The league needs a strong Arsenal to give City someone else to worry about.

    If they have a poor start to the season and Wolves have a good one, I can see a managerial change at Arsenal and an approach to the black country club by Christmas
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited July 2019 Posts: 17,757
    conradhankers wrote: »
    Now Arsenal are in a whole heap of trouble with their 40 million pound transfer budget this Summer. How can the owners think that is the right course of action? Arsenal are super rich with very little debt. The league needs a strong Arsenal to give City someone else to worry about.

    If they have a poor start to the season and Wolves have a good one, I can see a managerial change at Arsenal and an approach to the black country club by Christmas

    The problems at Arsenal are apparent on so many levels. The wage bill is one (a selected few players hold up a lot of it). Another is the fact that the club has failed in the sales of outgoing players; a Bleacher Report article writes that Arsenal have brought in just £77 million for (get this):
    "Johan Djourou, Denilson, Andrei Arshavin, Andre Santos, Marouane Chamakh, Sebastian Squillaci, Gervinho, Nicklas Bendtner, Lukas Fabianski, Bacary Sagna, Lukas Podolski, Serge Gnabry, Tomas Rosicky, Abou Diaby, Kieran Gibbs, Gabriel Paulista, Wojciech Szczesny, Francis Coquelin, Oliver Giroud, Santi Cazorla, Jack Wilshere, Lucas Perez, Joel Campbell, Mathieu Debuchy and Jeff Reine-Adelaide.

    Matthew Wade, who wrote the article, told Bleacher Report: "Incoming and outgoing transfers at the club have been mismanaged in the past five years, paying over the odds for some and letting others go for less than they should have. On the field, we have been in decline, so no extra money has been coming in from prizes or sponsorship. It's hard to grow commercially when not successful."

    Then there's the Short Term Cost Control (English football's version of UEFA's FFP). The article writes:
    "One of the main objectives is to recognise the dangers of wage inflation, and since 2016, sides in the top flight have had to show that wages do not rise by more than £7 million per annum.

    Manchester City managed to avoid sanctions because they splashed their cash before the ruling came in, but Arsenal's new wave has come at a more complicated time.

    University of Liverpool football finance lecturer Kieran Maguire told B/R: "[Club owner] Stan Kroenke wants the club to be self-financing so is unwilling to underwrite player investment. Arsenal do pay big wages, and for that to be sustainable, they need UEFA Champions League qualification to fall within STCC limits.

    "A lack of Champions League football this year, and increasingly remote chances of it for next season too, means they are restricted to a £7 million wage increase—plus anything extra that comes from new sponsor deals. Realistically, it's a one-out, one-in policy to balance the wage bill."

    In other words; mismanagement of the club, bad transfer deals (in, out, and missed opportunities), fair play rules and an owner reluctant to spend when the club needs it has put Arsenal in a difficult position. I won't be surprised if Emery leaves at the end of the upcoming season, placing Arsenal in an even worse situation. As the Arseblog podcast speculated, we could see that by July 1st next year, either Patrick Vieira or Fredrik Ljungberg will be manager of Arsenal. What's the best way to please fans if they need someone in place quick (example: United) – a former player turned manager/coach.
  • conradhankersconradhankers Underground
    Posts: 229
    Harry to be offered UTD Capt arm band with 80 million fee. Monday medical..... :-O
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    'tis the season to spend shitloads of money…
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 2019 Posts: 25,154
    Happy with Maguire and AWB, two good defensive additions. Though I expect more defence reinforcements over the next few windows. Jones, Darmian, Rojo and Young need to go
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    Transfer market is wrecked. Leicester to replace Maguire with Lewis Dunk for 45m
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757

    Well written, won't change anything.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Arsenal are now willing to let Koscielny at an acceptable price.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited July 2019 Posts: 17,757
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Arsenal are now willing to let Koscielny at an acceptable price.

    Question is, will other clubs pay that price?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Arsenal are now willing to let Koscielny at an acceptable price.

    Question is, will other clubs pay that price?

    I doubt it.
    Be lucky to get £4-5m.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Arsenal are now willing to let Koscielny at an acceptable price.

    Question is, will other clubs pay that price?

    I doubt it.
    Be lucky to get £4-5m.

    With the reported budget, every penny will count!

    Looking at various sites, Gremio forward Everton Soares seems to be the latest transfer rumour. Where are the CB rumours, I wonder…
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Arsenal are now willing to let Koscielny at an acceptable price.

    Question is, will other clubs pay that price?

    I doubt it.
    Be lucky to get £4-5m.

    With the reported budget, every penny will count!

    Looking at various sites, Gremio forward Everton Soares seems to be the latest transfer rumour. Where are the CB rumours, I wonder…

    Fabien Delph for £9m would have been good business.
    Missed out yet again.
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