Skyfall: Billion Dollar Bond

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @mepal1, then why is it that every other bar, chart, graph, comparison, and inflation coverage I've seen on the Bond films says something totally different than your random math lesson and a link to some site?
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,098
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @mepal1, then why is it that every other bar, chart, graph, comparison, and inflation coverage I've seen on the Bond films says something totally different than your random math lesson and a link to some site?

    .......they dont, go and do some research, its only AFP News who published a page in July 2012 that gives the figures you are referring to.

    so, by your reckoning that makes TB's adjusted gross as incorrect as per BO mojo, by a long margin.

    Its simple really, but people are just using one source for their argument without doing any research themselves...........based on the facts known.

    Go to the site i suggested as an example and look at thier tables which were compiled in November 2012.
    mepal1 wrote:
    Oh dear...

    The trouble with inflation adjustment figures is that the conversion factor is so questionable, and is solely based on the US inflation index, but even then there are quite a varied number of box office figures published amonst various BO sites for inflation adjusted figures of films in the US.

    All i was trying to say is.............at the end of the day its attendance figures that are a true reflection of a films success, and in this case 'SF' doesnt match those of 'TB'.

    btw;- i loved 'SF', and its success is fantastic.

    I understand what you are saying, but there are factors on the other side of the equation as well.

    Quite a few guys at my gym downloaded Skyfall and watched it at home rather than going to pay to see it at a theatre. So SF exists in a world where it is harder to get people out to the cinema, so a billion dollars is even more impressive of an achievement.

    When I was a kid big studio releases would stay in the theatres for several months (I still have some of the newspaper ads for The Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark proclaiming "11th month!"). If you really wanted to go see a film you saw it in a theatre; now people can wait 3 or 4 months for the DVD which lessens the "need" to see it in a theatre. So again, a billion dollars in this environment is pretty fantastic.

    Movies don't get re-releases now like they did in the past. How many times was TB re-released in the 60s? This ups its BO take in a way that SF can't compete with which again makes SF's total very impressive.

    Finally, we have a much more fractured entertainment landscape than we did in the 60s. Movies are not the "events" that they were for my parents' generation - I'm not sure of the attendance patterns in the 60s but I know in the 30s the average person went to the movies 3 times every week.

    Now, this is not to say that you're wrong to bring up the points that you do, it's simply to say that we can never compare TB and SF in an "apples to apples" comparison because of the different times they were released in. Taking certain factors into account, SF may be far behind TB. But taking other factors into account might mean that it's already much more successful than TB...we'll never be able to answer that.

    Yes, very true, we cant really compare, apples to apples due to various factors as you have pointed out.
    I'am merely pointing out that the source of adjusted inflation figures someone has posted here does not tie up with other well known respected sources, and i have included that information.
    All in all, bums on seats is the best way to compare a films success.
    From what ive studied over the years the BO figures for the Bond films are for their initial theatrical release only.............but i could spend several paragraphs going into that detail as well.

    The thing is people say this and that...without posting any factual info to back up their claims!


    Mod edit: double post merged into one.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @mepal1, and yet your hypocrisy shows by stating I go off of some article - which I never once said I did - and then you turn around and give one site as a source.

    I did a simplistic Google search and checked around four or five different sites/articles, and they all stated the same thing we've said here for months.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @mepal1, and yet your hypocrisy shows by stating I go off of some article - which I never once said I did - and then you turn around and give one site as a source.

    I did a simplistic Google search and checked around four or five different sites/articles, and they all stated the same thing we've said here for months.

    Different sites does not mean that they use the same source. The truth is often more complex and be honest we want SF to be the best ever, even if we fear for the next 007 outing. Perhaps we should ask James Cameron to do it. ;)

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,098
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @mepal1, and yet your hypocrisy shows by stating I go off of some article - which I never once said I did - and then you turn around and give one site as a source.

    I did a simplistic Google search and checked around four or five different sites/articles, and they all stated the same thing we've said here for months.

    give me examples please, they probably just referred to that one page as well.

    No one is giving me facts.....

    I'am not trying to put the success of 'SF' down, as its fantastic.........but it wasnt on the same level as 'TB' during Bondmania in the mid-sixties.

    'TB' now has a reported admissions figure of over 58 million for its initial US run. I remember for years BO sources said TB had admissions of 74.8, but i never quite believed that. 58+ million sounds about right, as it ties up generally with the BO figure attained by TB, considering it cost a little over a dollar to see a film in 1966.
    SaintMark wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @mepal1, and yet your hypocrisy shows by stating I go off of some article - which I never once said I did - and then you turn around and give one site as a source.

    I did a simplistic Google search and checked around four or five different sites/articles, and they all stated the same thing we've said here for months.

    Different sites does not mean that they use the same source. The truth is often more complex and be honest we want SF to be the best ever, even if we fear for the next 007 outing. Perhaps we should ask James Cameron to do it. ;)

    Very well said..............i would like Bond films to be the greatest BO hits as well, but until they reach the dizzy heights that GF and TB attained in the US during the mid-sixties, combined with their international grosses, then it aint gonna happen.

    Can anyone here realistically see a Bond film grossing $500-600 mil in the US, in todays world.

    The Americans like Bond but they love their comic book heroes even more!

    Mod edit: triple post merged into one.
  • Posts: 5,745
    mepal1 wrote:
    'SF' actually needs to surpass $1.3 Billion to surpass 'TB'.

    Its all a case of simple mathematics.

    The source that someone has used earlier on in this thread appears to be incorrect (which is not uncommon, where BO is concerned).

    Hm.. It seems most us here are incorrect then:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Another $16 million overseas means we've got the first billion dollar Bond:

    1. $1,037,291,060.32 - Thunderball
    2. $1,000,200,000.00 - Skyfall
    3. $932,346,267.74 - Goldfinger
    4. $843,280,463.96 - Live And Let Die
    5. $773,204,227.54 - You Only Live Twice
    6. $707,967,950.50 - The Spy Who Loved Me
    7. $687,348,781.40 - Casino Royale
    8. $670,341,133.13 - Moonraker
    9. $662,795,358.02 - Diamonds Are Forever
    10. $629,928,504.77 - Quantum Of Solace
    11. $596,667,068.63 - From Russia With Love
    12. $555,648,360.42 - Die Another Day
    13. $534,777,984.42 - GoldenEye
    14. $517,040,163.49 - On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. $502,584,334.85 - The World Is Not Enough
    16. $497,181,376.24 - For Your Eyes Only
    17. $480,131,415.66 - Tomorrow Never Dies
    18. $458,120,146.04 - The Man With The Golden Gun
    19. $456,431,419.48 - Dr. No
    20. $435,630,647.59 - Octopussy
    21. $389,480,795.77 - The Living Daylights
    22. $339,368,258.36 - A View To A Kill
    23. $291,436,616.45 - Licence To Kill

    $82 million until we take down The Dark Knight Rises! Who wouldn't thought that at the beginning of the year?

  • Posts: 1,098
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    mepal1 wrote:
    'SF' actually needs to surpass $1.3 Billion to surpass 'TB'.

    Its all a case of simple mathematics.

    The source that someone has used earlier on in this thread appears to be incorrect (which is not uncommon, where BO is concerned).

    Hm.. It seems most us here are incorrect then:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Another $16 million overseas means we've got the first billion dollar Bond:

    1. $1,037,291,060.32 - Thunderball
    2. $1,000,200,000.00 - Skyfall
    3. $932,346,267.74 - Goldfinger
    4. $843,280,463.96 - Live And Let Die
    5. $773,204,227.54 - You Only Live Twice
    6. $707,967,950.50 - The Spy Who Loved Me
    7. $687,348,781.40 - Casino Royale
    8. $670,341,133.13 - Moonraker
    9. $662,795,358.02 - Diamonds Are Forever
    10. $629,928,504.77 - Quantum Of Solace
    11. $596,667,068.63 - From Russia With Love
    12. $555,648,360.42 - Die Another Day
    13. $534,777,984.42 - GoldenEye
    14. $517,040,163.49 - On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    15. $502,584,334.85 - The World Is Not Enough
    16. $497,181,376.24 - For Your Eyes Only
    17. $480,131,415.66 - Tomorrow Never Dies
    18. $458,120,146.04 - The Man With The Golden Gun
    19. $456,431,419.48 - Dr. No
    20. $435,630,647.59 - Octopussy
    21. $389,480,795.77 - The Living Daylights
    22. $339,368,258.36 - A View To A Kill
    23. $291,436,616.45 - Licence To Kill

    $82 million until we take down The Dark Knight Rises! Who wouldn't thought that at the beginning of the year?

    again you are looking at this one source only.............it depends on what criteria they used to do the conversion. Others who have done the same thing have come out with a sets of higher bigger numbers for Bond films.

    i know everyone wants SF to be the biggest, but you are not being flexible in your outlook and dont take into account other sources conversion figures.

    Blinkin heck....................some people are hard work!
  • Posts: 11,119
    Let me re-post it...because no one read it:
    mepal1 wrote:
    Reality Check:-

    Well i follow BO performnaces of films, so i thought i'd put into check the reality of 'SF' s box office success.........which though exceptional........

    True its fantastic that the film has grossed so much, but is it the most successful Bond?......no sorry it isnt. Remember that 'TB' had a gross which today would be equivalent to around $600 mil for its North American release alone, and 'GF' wasnt that far behind. If you take into account attendance figures then 'SF' lags 'TB' by a massive margin............i mean we are talking at least a difference of around 15,000,000 minimum.
    Also you need to take into account the population of the US is now over 311mil, it was around 200 mil in 1965/66, so a much larger percentage of the population saw a Bond film then.
    Yes, 'SF' has done unbelievably well in International markets, but so did 'TB' and 'TB' didnt have the luxury of being able to play in China, Russia or India.
    I mean 'SF' has become no1 film alltime in UK numerically wise, but i doubt its attendance figure here matches 'TB's massive 15.6 mil admissions, though its probably quite close.
    Conclusion 'SF' yes massive hit..........but not a mega-blockbuster as per 'TB'..........the facts speak for themselves.
    The adjusted inflation figures are a rough guide and vary somewhat, but you cannot ignore the fact that 'TB' had a far greater admissions, and that at the day is the proof of the pudding.........ie.....number of people who actually went to see the film, and in this case we are going backt to 1966 when there were a helluva lot less people in the world.
    Sorry to be a killjoy........coz i thought 'SF' was excellent., just putting things into perspective. :)

    Even your arguments aren't a true factcheck. If you say EITHER 'Skyfall' is the most succesful Bond film ever OR that 'we need to do a factcheck because 'Skyfall' can never do the business 'Thunderball' did in the USA': Both remarks are hard to prove.

    Why? For the exact reasons you are mentioning. It's like saying 'China and the USA together would not have been world powers today if they only did colonialization in the way Holland did in the 17th century' :-S.

    Fact is: Both examples are incomparable. That is a fact. And when you leave these faulty comparisons out, you can still say that 'Skyfall' is the most succesful film in its genre for today's standards. THAT'S why I prefer comparing 'Skyfall' with recent movies like 'The Dark Knight Rises'.

    And still then you need to see comparisons into perspective. But that does not make me less excited about what 'Skyfall' did. I am excited, I will stay excited....and I have actually become a bigger Bond fan because of 'Skyfall' :-).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    @mepal1

    Three double posts and one triple (!) post of yours were merged into one. Please use the edit button if you wish to continue posting when you yourself have made the last post in a thread so far. Thank you.
  • Posts: 5,745
    mepal1 wrote:
    again you are looking at this one source only.............it depends on what criteria they used to do the conversion. Others who have done the same thing have come out with a sets of higher bigger numbers for Bond films.

    i know everyone wants SF to be the biggest, but you are not being flexible in your outlook and dont take into account other sources conversion figures.

    Blinkin heck....................some people are hard work!

    So your telling me every source is different, so none can be right. What are we supposed to do, call it a tie?

    Skyfall will be biggest in around 30 Million, period. Ticket sales, gross profit, period. I'm not hard work, I'm intelligent in the art of common sense. :)
  • SF is probably the biggest Bond film ever, or will be very soon.

    Saying that though I don't think this is Bondmania. Not by a long shot. At the time, in the 60s, Bond was essentially the first proper action film series. It inspired the spy craze and tons of rip offs, people went mental for it.

    SF is extremely successful and it'll have made more money than any other Bond film by the end of it's run. But I don't think it's Bondmania.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,098
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    mepal1 wrote:
    again you are looking at this one source only.............it depends on what criteria they used to do the conversion. Others who have done the same thing have come out with a sets of higher bigger numbers for Bond films.

    i know everyone wants SF to be the biggest, but you are not being flexible in your outlook and dont take into account other sources conversion figures.

    Blinkin heck....................some people are hard work!

    So your telling me every source is different, so none can be right. What are we supposed to do, call it a tie?

    Skyfall will be biggest in around 30 Million, period. Ticket sales, gross profit, period. I'm not hard work, I'm intelligent in the art of common sense. :)

    Put it this way....i'am just commenting on this, because recently a member here made a bold comment which was highlighted on the front page of MI6 stating that whichever way you look at it SF is the most successful Bond film ever, or words to that effect.
    Now, when i saw the list that he was referring to, i noticed that this list had inflation adjusted BO figures which were lower than others i had seen in the past.
    It appears to me, that there is a lot of wishful thinking here, and that a fair number of mi6 members here have jumped onto the bandwagon, of the original posters info, and have taken that as gospel, and disregarded other sources info...because they want SF to be the biggest Bond film ever, coz its the latest film......though it is strange that as Bond fans you are not interested in figures which show Bond films to of grossed more!
    Yes, i do believe, that SF has grossed more than TB internationally when taking inflation into account, and film has still to open in China...........but worldwide, it looks like SF will fall short of TB.
    If SF had grossed around $500 mil in North America, then yes i would agree it was top dog......but unless SF grosses really big in China, then it is only No2.

    Here are links to other sources:- based on upto date lists using figures for 2012 inflation.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

    this list compiled by BO mojo is updated regularly to show the top films ever in the US.

    If TB gross equates to an estimated $582 and the films US BO was around 45% of total BO
    then the remaining 55% international total added to the domestic total far exceeds the $1037 mil as quoted by the original poster...............is the penny beginning to drop yet??

    then you can look at this page as well:-

    http://cogerson.hubpages.com/hub/James-BondHis-Best-and-Worst-and-all-the-rest-Or-mathematical-proof-Sean-Connery-was-the-best-Bond-ever

    and this one:-

    http://www.soundonsight.org/james-bond-by-the-numbers/

    conclusion.........before making claims to the world community, please check that you have done your research, and looked into numerous sources of info on the subject matter, and dont just post the info that suits your wishes only.

    OK


    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    mepal1 wrote:
    again you are looking at this one source only.............it depends on what criteria they used to do the conversion. Others who have done the same thing have come out with a sets of higher bigger numbers for Bond films.

    i know everyone wants SF to be the biggest, but you are not being flexible in your outlook and dont take into account other sources conversion figures.

    Blinkin heck....................some people are hard work!

    So your telling me every source is different, so none can be right. What are we supposed to do, call it a tie?

    Skyfall will be biggest in around 30 Million, period. Ticket sales, gross profit, period. I'm not hard work, I'm intelligent in the art of common sense. :)

    No it wont...........period..........youve got more lip than a duck billed platypus!

    Mod edit: double post merged into one.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 5,745
    This is a James Bond forum, hardly the world stage.

    Sorry if I you offended the following who are apparently reading this:

    President Barrack Obama and First Lady Michelle
    Her Majesty the Queen of England
    First Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea Kim Jung Un
    President of the People's Republic of China Hu Jintao
    United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon

    And any other parties offended by my disgusting and blatant attempts at failing to properly calculate the adjustment figures of the gross of a 50 year old film.

    My Chief of Operations will be contacting the appropriate parties and issuing official statements of apology.

    Oh, I didn't offend any of those aforementioned? Just a guy on the internet who feels he's inclined to dictate an internet forum of hundreds of users when he's just starting his account?

    Good. He can piss off.

    And @mepal1

    You've got a nasty habit of ignoring moderators and their strictly outlined guidelines involving multiple consecutive posts. You may be convinced you can do math, just not sure you can read.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bringing out the big guns...

    :-\"
  • Posts: 5,745
    Bringing out the big guns...
    :-\"

    Brady you're a dear friend to me ;) But you're the better half of this friendship; you seem to manage dictating newcomers far better than I.
  • JamesPageJamesPage Administrator, Moderator, Director
    Posts: 1,380
    It doesn't matter how much SKYFALL makes, some said **** will find a way of calculating TBALL inflation such that it doesn't beat it.
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    I saw Skyfall for the second time tonight (actually it was my third time). One of the best Bond movies since the Connery days. Shoot, maybe the best of them all! I really hated Pierce Brosnan. I felt he almost killed the series with his bad acting and corny dialog. Anyway, I've been reading this thread for awhile and finally decided to register. I'm pleased to see Skyfall has hit the $1 billion mark. It's probably a lot more since Box Office Mojo has yet to update Skyfall's numbers for Christmas Eve and Day.

    Casino Royale is great! Skyfall could be the best! There is one weak link however: Quantum of Solace
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2013 Posts: 28,694
    CIA wrote:
    I saw Skyfall for the second time tonight (actually it was my third time). One of the best Bond movies since the Connery days. Shoot, maybe the best of them all! I really hated Pierce Brosnan. I felt he almost killed the series with his bad acting and corny dialog. Anyway, I've been reading this thread for awhile and finally decided to register. I'm pleased to see Skyfall has hit the $1 billion mark. It's probably a lot more since Box Office Mojo has yet to update Skyfall's numbers for Christmas Eve and Day.

    Casino Royale is great! Skyfall could be the best! There is one weak link however: Quantum of Solace
    I don't know why you went off on a tangent to hackle Brosnan, but it must be said that the dialogue wasn't his or his fault. And the same goes for some of the acting quite possibly.
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    I don't know why you went off on a tangent to hackle Brosnan, but it must be said that the dialogue wasn't his or his fault. And the same goes for some of the acting quite possibly.

    I respectfully disagree. Scripts were bad too.

    <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vzLUuwHu-0U?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vzLUuwHu-0U?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0"; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    CIA wrote:
    I don't know why you went off on a tangent to hackle Brosnan, but it must be said that the dialogue wasn't his or his fault. And the same goes for some of the acting quite possibly.

    I respectfully disagree. Scripts were bad too.

    <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vzLUuwHu-0U?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vzLUuwHu-0U?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0"; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
    So, Pierce wrote the script? I think not. Therefore, he has no control over what he is given or how he is directed to say it.
  • CIACIA
    edited January 2013 Posts: 120
    I didn't come here to argue. Just sharing my personal opinion.

    Sean Connery > Daniel Craig > Roger Moore > Timothy Dalton > George Lazenby > Pierce Brosnan

    I'm tempted as a joke to throw in Peter Sellers, after Lazenby but before Brosnan.

    Back to on-topic, what's the deal with box office mojo. They have not updated since the 28th and Christmas Day and Ever are still missing. We should see a big pop in box office numbers once posted?

    Mod edit: double post merged into one.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    CIA wrote:
    Back to on-topic, what's the deal with box office mojo. They have not updated since the 28th and Christmas Day and Ever are still missing. We should see a big pop in box office numbers once posted?
    I have heard a few people say that the numbers haven't been up. Though, this is the part of the year where people take breaks to relax and prepare for the new year, so the results should be up soon one would think.
  • CIACIA
    edited January 2013 Posts: 120
    The reason I ask is because all the other releases on that site have the estimates posted within 24 hours.

    I hope we take out Dark Night. Surpassing Thunderball's box office (as determined by BoxOfficeMoJo's inflation adjusted calculation) is a foregone conclusion at this point.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Has anyone dared to dream what might be possible with China? What was it MI:GP took? I forget was it $300 or $500?

    If we got those figures to add on to the $1b then TB (and about time - not a great Bond film) would surely be trounced whichever way you figure it and SF would be nibbling at The Avengers.
  • Posts: 116
    MI:IV earned 100 Mil in China. I guess we will have to wait an see. Shanghai and Macau on the screen might draw some audience, on the other side the Chinese are portraied as Silva's torturer, so this might cost some bucks.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 6,601
    I don't have too high a hope for China. If it does 40 mill, we can be happy. Pirating and not enough over the top action scenes will cost it. Pesonally I see it as a positive, but we know, Asians love wild action sequenes.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Has anyone dared to dream what might be possible with China? What was it MI:GP took? I forget was it $300 or $500?

    If we got those figures to add on to the $1b then TB (and about time - not a great Bond film) would surely be trounced whichever way you figure it and SF would be nibbling at The Avengers.

    I think it's fair to say anything is possible. I don't know too much about the market but if it performs like it has worldwide then I think it's fair too assume it will do better than anyone could predict - even with pirating etc.
  • I think saying it won't do well over there because it's not non stop action is unfair. Plenty of non action films are big in China.

    But they do expect more from action sequences than SF (and most Hollywood blockbusters) give. And to be fair who can blame them.

    In the year that the Bond series bought us Roger Moore snowboarding down a mountain to to the beach boys, Hong Kong cinema bought us Jackie Chan destroying shanty towns, hanging of a bus from an umbrella and electrocuting himself.

    Anythings possible but the film has been out for that long now, I think piracy might stop it doing really well over there.
  • Posts: 6,601
    I think saying it won't do well over there because it's not non stop action is unfair. Plenty of non action films are big in China.

    But they do expect more from action sequences than SF (and most Hollywood blockbusters) give. And to be fair who can blame them.

    In the year that the Bond series bought us Roger Moore snowboarding down a mountain to to the beach boys, Hong Kong cinema bought us Jackie Chan destroying shanty towns, hanging of a bus from an umbrella and electrocuting himself.

    Anythings possible but the film has been out for that long now, I think piracy might stop it doing really well over there.

    So - all in all - we agree and you just said the same as me in other words. ;)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    It's true. Hollywood action films are a joke compared to action thriller movies you get from hong kong and Korean cinema. I watched this film called exiled the other day and the action, shoot outs pretty much wipe the floor with what Hollywood could do in their wildest dreams.
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