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Skyfall: Billion Dollar Bond

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  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    When you cut parts of the film that include the villains entire motivation,
    For me, being betrayed by M is the entire motivation, the context is a McGuffin, in this case.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Suivez_ce_parachute wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    When you cut parts of the film that include the villains entire motivation,
    For me, being betrayed by M is the entire motivation, the context is a McGuffin, in this case.
    Yeah, and her handing Silva over involves his torture by the CHINESE. That is now cut, hence my comments of idiocracy.
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Yeah, and her handing Silva over involves his torture by the CHINESE. That is now cut, hence my comments of idiocracy.
    Silva never mentions the CHINESE at any time when he meets M, he only talks about her betrayal. The CHINESE are mentioned for the first time only after that, when M explains to Bond the context in the corridor in two lines of exposition. That's why I think the "political context" is much more superficial than many here seem to think. It's really the betrayal that's the core of the motivation.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Suivez_ce_parachute wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Yeah, and her handing Silva over involves his torture by the CHINESE. That is now cut, hence my comments of idiocracy.
    Silva never mentions the CHINESE at any time when he meets M, he only talks about her betrayal. The CHINESE are mentioned for the first time only after that, when M explains to Bond the context in the corridor in two lines of exposition. That's why I think the "political context" is much more superficial than many here seem to think. It's really the betrayal that's the core of the motivation.

    Yes, I do see what you mean, but you must also consider how Silva couldn't even commit suicide, and had to suffer, increasing his hatred for M.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Suivez_ce_parachute wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    When you cut parts of the film that include the villains entire motivation,
    For me, being betrayed by M is the entire motivation, the context is a McGuffin, in this case.

    Very good point. The Chinese connection is an irrelevance in plot terms. There's absolutely no difference if you change Chinas role in Silvas torture to the Russians or Iraqis.

    If the Chinese censor wants to tweak the subtitles replacing China with another country then big deal. It won't be a reason for box office failure or success.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2013 Posts: 28,694
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Suivez_ce_parachute wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    When you cut parts of the film that include the villains entire motivation,
    For me, being betrayed by M is the entire motivation, the context is a McGuffin, in this case.

    Very good point. The Chinese connection is an irrelevance in plot terms. There's absolutely no difference if you change Chinas role in Silvas torture to the Russians or Iraqis.

    If the Chinese censor wants to tweak the subtitles replacing China with another country then big deal. It won't be a reason for box office failure or success.
    You both make very good points. I wonder if they did country swap Silva's torturer's?
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601


    Are there no new numbers from yesterday?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    "It's just an action movie." [-(
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    There you have yur answer. It falls short as a just an action movie and hence, it won't make a huge splash. But that's what I said all along, just nobody is listening ;)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    Indeed. I am not completely surprised by the first reviews of the Chinese. We knew already that 'Skyfall' is quite a political, multi-layered Bond film. In China they don't like that. I loved 'Ghost Protocol', but mainly for the action sequences.

    We were like that too in the past though ;-). There comes a time that the Chinese citizens become more outspoken, more critical. For them 'Skyfall' is a new kind of experience. I can't blaim them.

    What are you going on about?

    My ex was Chinese and I've been to China myself and I hate to break it to you but it's not some wierd country that's been depriving the people of anything on the silver screen that isn't an explosion, nor is everybody over there just kung fu obsessed action junkies who can't appreciate the multi layered politically challenging brilliance of Skyfall.

    All that's happened here is that they expect more from action scenes over there than SF delivers.
    Suivez_ce_parachute wrote:
    tumblr_medt0t14ti1ryj0lqo1_500.jpg

    =))

    Well, those are your words hehe :-). I don't say it's a weird kind of country. But I do know, that my best Chinese friend from university (I studied International Business) was always wary to talk about politics. Especially when I just met him in Holland and when I wanted to talk about politics, he usually said "Shhh, don't talk about that. It's not something we should have an opinion about." That's a fact. I am not saying this country is depriving the people of anything on the silver screen. But I do know that having a political opinion in China is not supported at all. On the contrary.

    'Skyfall' in my opinion is a Bond film that is very multi-layered. It's about espionage and the necessity of secret intelligence services as well. Well, that's exactly a subject you would not hear the Chinese talking about. Period. I don't blaim them for that. I understand Chinese culture more than you can think of.
  • rt183rt183
    Posts: 30
    Skyfall’s Hard Landing in China

    By Robert Cain for China Film Biz

    January 22, 2013

    Skyfall opened on Monday in China on nearly 5,500 screens, which makes it the widest release ever in the PRC. But a nearly 3-month delay in its release, widespread piracy, and mixed-to-poor word of mouth among theatergoers doomed the Bond film to a disappointing $4.9 million opening-day mainland gross.

    Sunday’s midnight screenings also fell below expectations at roughly $300,000. It now appears unlikely that Skyfall will come anywhere close to matching the take of last year’s first big Hollywood release, Mission Impossible 4, which opened in January, 2012 and went on to a final gross of $102 million.

    As China’s film business has grown and as its audience has broadened deeply into the second and third-tier cities, it has become increasingly difficult to guess how the country’s audiences will respond to individual films. Skyfall seemed a natural given last year’s successes of action blockbusters like Mission Impossible, The Avengers, and Men in Black III. But to paraphrase the late, great Yogi Berra, “If people don’t want to come out to the theater, nobody’s going to stop them.”

    Among the common complaints I found on Sina Weibo, China’s Twitter, were that the film’s rhythm was too slow and that there were too few action scenes. Some exclaimed that they felt “completely robbed.” Never mind that the film was both a critical and commercial smash in the rest of the world, it will severely under-index in the PRC.

    Other surprises of the past week include the $13 million haul taken in the week ending January 20th by Bona’s Bring Happiness Home, a spin-off of a popular Chinese cable TV show that nearly knocked Grandmaster out of its number one spot for the week. And the animation team at Shanghai Hippo, creators of the Animen films, must have been sorely disappointed by the tepid reception to their latest animated film Jungle Master.

    http://chinafilmbiz.com/2013/01/22/skyfalls-hard-landing-in-china/
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Germanlady wrote:
    There you have yur answer. It falls short as a just an action movie and hence, it won't make a huge splash. But that's what I said all along, just nobody is listening ;)

    I agree with you for once Germanlady. If the film is being marketed as an action movie then the general public will be disappointed as if you take out the PTS it's pretty much just a thriller.

    Oh well each to their own. If the Chinese prefer chop socky, Mission Impossible and 3D CGI dross that's up to them. I prefer SF, googling whatever I want and slagging off my government off without fear of my family being taken away.

    Swings and roundabouts.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    But thing is, it might not make the detroning of DK. Is 50 mill still possible? doubt it. 30-40 in my book. Not a tragedy really, as it will not take any of the success, the film has had away.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    What a blow this must be but then again, you can't win them all.

  • mnhettiamnhettia
    edited January 2013 Posts: 203
    hopefully they will add more action to bond 24 ... considering China is one of the biggest emerging markets. I feel you can still maintain the thriller aspects of SF and have bigger action set pieces ... look at TLD for example. CR had the right balance IMHO. MI:GP did have some good action sequences and a lame plot.

    So I guess we will have to live with a total of 1.65 billion at the end of the day for SF. I wanted it to beat TDKR so bad ... SF was better acted, plotted and put together ... so dissapointed!
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    THIS would be the biggest mistake, they can do now. Going after China with adding considerably more action and loosing out on the rest - again. Think QOS. Not working...I hope, they won't be that stupid. Give us dialogue aand suspense over action any time. Let other films action out on China. Bond doesn't need to, as we can see now. It did just fine without China.
  • TuuliaTuulia
    Posts: 2,081
    ^^ I totally agree with GL on this. Making decisions in order to cater for a specific market like that would be idiotic - artistically suicidal, and might not even work at the BO anyway. Skyfall has been a phenomenal success around the world, so thinking it somehow "failed" because China is not as much in love with it as the rest of the world, and therefore future direction should be different to appeal to China, is just senseless. They just need to make a great movie like they did with Skyfall. If the Chinese choose to ignore it, well, their loss.
  • htall90htall90
    Posts: 277
    According to box office analysis in China it should make around $50 to 60 mil in china thus beating TDKR w.w and finishing around the $1.1 billion mark and 7 th all time just behind ROTK and transformers 3.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    Still that much?
  • htall90htall90
    Posts: 277
    Yes at least $ 50 mil at the moment because it is running at round half of MI:4 opening day. Skyfall is under performing only relative to it's huge european box office results which have warped peoples perceptions in asia it's no where near as successful unfortunately. China as a market is having a slow time after a busy december and early January they just recently had the highest grossing film ever released in 2d and 2nd all time e.g Lost in thailand which is the most attended film ever in China and only the 2nd after Avatar to pass $200 mil in China soon hopefully. This apparently has suck the market dry a bit.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    The problem with QoS imo, was, that the film's barebones script was held together by an overabundance of action set pieces, which was even made worse by shoddy editing and a misuse of handheld camera work.
    I personally feel that SF could have improved a great deal in the action front. The PTS was perfect but everything after that just wasn't as impressive compared to what we got in CR and in some cases what was filmed in QoS. The action in SF was far too brief and over before it really began, we could gave done with one more set piece and the action from Silver's escape to the hearing could have been a more impressive set piece but such as it is, it's still pretty good. The attack on SF manor was alright but I felt it was missing something. In fact now that I think about it, I actually prefer the last action set piece of QoS over SF's.
    All in all, in terms of action set pieces and tge frequency of the action occurring, I think CR is a perfect blueprint as, it satisfies those craving action while not compromising on conveying a great story.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    SF could've done with better fight scenes. That would improve the film action wise. As it stands I think the only really great action scenes were at the start and the end of the film. CR wasn't filled with huge setpieces (there's Madagascar, Miami and Venice so only one more than SF really) but it had the advantage of those brutal brilliant fight scenes inbetween.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    Kananga wrote:
    Thunderball - $1,037,291,060.32
    Skyfall - $1,038,537,000

    Job done.

    I'll just wait for the inevitable @mepal rant. Popping the corn as we speak.
  • mnhettiamnhettia
    Posts: 203
    yes, one more impressive set piece in the middle would have done the trick. the courtroom hearing intercut with the silva action was brilliantly done (building tension). my ranking of the Craig climax's;

    1. QOS villan lair blowup
    2. SF Manor attack
    3. CR's sinking house
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    !: Sf
    2. CR
    §: QOS
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Bond in Thunderball: "Well, you can't win them all."

    Quite fitting, and not in the least a big deal. I am so proud of you, Skyfall. :)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited January 2013 Posts: 11,139
    @Brady did you catch my compound paraphrasing of both Bond and Fiona's exchange of the same reference you quoted? But you're right, SF has done marvellously irrespective of China's BO contributions.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote:
    @Brady did you catch my compound paraphrasing of both Bond and Fiona's exchange of the same reference you quoted? But you're right, SF has done marvellously irrespective of China's BO contributions.

    I did, sir. After watching it recently it stuck out like a sore thumb to me.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    My Craig finale ranking would be

    1) SF (the DB5 has gadgets and for the first time since the Connery flicks doesn't feel shoved in, Apocolypse Now reference, Kincade being brilliant, what's not to like?)

    2) QOS (best bit of the film outside of the opening few seconds with the lake and the aston. Great action and the hotel is a pretty good set. Only real downside is Elvis but he dies fairly quickly so that's ok).

    3) CR (cool action but felt a bit shoved in and Vespers death I thought had less of an impact because you could see it coming. It's also a bit too OTT for the film I think, and although the CGI looks good I'm not a fan of that much being used. Since it didn't come close to matching the Madagascar scenes or event the bit at the airport, I think maybe they should've stuck with the book and just had Bond finding her dead).
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    @Brady did you catch my compound paraphrasing of both Bond and Fiona's exchange of the same reference you quoted? But you're right, SF has done marvellously irrespective of China's BO contributions.

    I did, sir. After watching it recently it stuck out like a sore thumb to me.

    Haha! One of my favourite scenes in the entire series. I think I'll pop in TB tonight.

    As for finale rankings for me:

    CR
    QoS
    SF
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