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Skyfall, gun barrel sequence back where it belongs?

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  • CraterGunsCraterGuns
    Posts: 618
    The FYEO gunbarrel should have Christopher Walken (as Max Zorin) blurting, "More... More cowbell!"
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2012 Posts: 15,718
    MrBond wrote:
    And that the gunbarrel in the end shows that Bond is the man we know so well in the end. He learns about Vesper and he can finally move on.

    Appalling decision. The gunbarrel didn't have any symbolic meaning for the first 20 films, so there was no need to temper with it and try to give some completly insignificant symbolism.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    And that the gunbarrel in the end shows that Bond is the man we know so well in the end. He learns about Vesper and he can finally move on.

    Appalling decision. The gunbarrel didn't have any symbolic meaning for the first 20 films, so there was no need to temper with it and try to give some completly insignificant symbolism.

    I say it again, i would ruin the tension at the start of the film with a gunbarrel. A tenison which is built up so good with the MGM logo and onwards. And the whole meaning with QoS was that Bond was going to find himself in a way.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    MrBond wrote:
    And the whole meaning with QoS was that Bond was going to find himself in a way.

    Bond movies are entertainement for the masses. Who cares about such insignificant symbolisms ? Will Q have backstory with his kids in Skyfall ?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    MrBond wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    And that the gunbarrel in the end shows that Bond is the man we know so well in the end. He learns about Vesper and he can finally move on.

    Appalling decision. The gunbarrel didn't have any symbolic meaning for the first 20 films, so there was no need to temper with it and try to give some completly insignificant symbolism.

    I say it again, i would ruin the tension at the start of the film with a gunbarrel. A tenison which is built up so good with the MGM logo and onwards. And the whole meaning with QoS was that Bond was going to find himself in a way.

    This again, ties up to the misleading CR ending (which makes us think Bond has found himself and has become the Bond we know). And I'm with DC on this, I couldn't care less about all the "deeper meanings" in QOS.

    I don't give a crap if the action scenes symbolised the elements, they're still too much and the Bourne style editing doesn't work. I don't care about QOS gunbarrel meaning Bond finds himself, because it's still a crap gunbarrel. I really don't like it when I say "I don't like QOS", and then there are people saying "pfft, you're just too dumb to realise how good it is"

    And like I said, they could've played the music over the traditional GB at the start to keep the tension, have it start there instead of the studio logos. Problem solved.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    And that the gunbarrel in the end shows that Bond is the man we know so well in the end. He learns about Vesper and he can finally move on.

    Appalling decision. The gunbarrel didn't have any symbolic meaning for the first 20 films, so there was no need to temper with it and try to give some completly insignificant symbolism.

    I say it again, i would ruin the tension at the start of the film with a gunbarrel. A tenison which is built up so good with the MGM logo and onwards. And the whole meaning with QoS was that Bond was going to find himself in a way.

    This again, ties up to the misleading CR ending (which makes us think Bond has found himself and has become the Bond we know). And I'm with DC on this, I couldn't care less about all the "deeper meanings" in QOS.

    I don't give a crap if the action scenes symbolised the elements, they're still too much and the Bourne style editing doesn't work. I don't care about QOS gunbarrel meaning Bond finds himself, because it's still a crap gunbarrel. I really don't like it when I say "I don't like QOS", and then there are people saying "pfft, you're just too dumb to realise how good it is"

    And like I said, they could've played the music over the traditional GB at the start to keep the tension, have it start there instead of the studio logos. Problem solved.

    Well apperently not. When Bond shot White it was obvious that Bond was going to ask him question and continue the search after what made Vesper betray him. I thought it was quite obvious when i first watched CR ( back in 2006 ).

    I think the deeper meanings worked out really well in the film. The way Bond is in a desert, which shows how alone Bond is. Whatever all of you say, that was what it was intended to be. And when Bond finally has got all of his questions answered, well then he could continue. And that's when the gunbarrel could appear. Because in all of the other 20 films before CR Bond was the man we all knew so it would be no doubt the gunbarrel would have been in the beginning.

    And BTW, i did never say that someone was stupid.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    @MrBond I know you didn't, my post wasn't really directed at you by then.

    Anyway, I've already given my opinion on the deeper meanings. I knew Bond would look for answers, but I thought he would do it as the Bond we know. Look at the CR ending, Bond shoots white skillfully, walks up calmly in a suit, Bond theme playing and says "Bond, James Bond". Sure sounds like the Bond we know to me.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    @thelivingroyale Alright, no harm made :)

    Well i thought that Bond knew what he did. Sure he did some bad decisions, but when he came into a fist fight he did it in real Bondstyle. Take the scene at the Hotel, he beats 4 guards, sneaks away over the edge and jumps over and casually talks to M. He was more experienced here then in CR.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    @MrBond He was more experienced than in CR, but I think in CR he seemed more Bond like. In CR there were the moments like the bit at the ocean club or the bit at the end where you knew straight away it was Bond. With QOS, idk, there weren't as many moments like that, to me he felt less Bond like than he did in CR.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    @thelivingroyale Yes i can agree with that. But still he has taken one step further towards the classical Bond in QoS in some way.
  • JamesStockJamesStock
    edited July 2012 Posts: 572
    I certainly agree with everyone here in that the gunbarrel should and most likely will be at the beginning. I'll bet we'll see a new style of gunbarrel. Perhaps something similar to QOS/Brosnan era, but yet different. Maybe some stronger hints of the old-school style. Who knows...

    One thing that I think they could do to make it unique (but not overkill) is to start it like it normally does but as the blood pours down instead of fading to a different (usually panorama) shot, make the next shot a continuation from the gunbarrel. In other words use the gunbarrel as part of the plot to kick-start the pre-credits sequence. A sort of flip-flopped CR gunbarrel, but placed at the beginning.

    I think that could work well, make it a little special for the 50th (or whenever), and fit it within the standard formula....and no cgi bullets!!!
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited July 2012 Posts: 4,399
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Bond movies are entertainement for the masses.

    i find this one statement interesting, in an ironic sort of way.. considering who it is coming from...

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited July 2012 Posts: 4,399
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    And that the gunbarrel in the end shows that Bond is the man we know so well in the end. He learns about Vesper and he can finally move on.

    Appalling decision. The gunbarrel didn't have any symbolic meaning for the first 20 films, so there was no need to temper with it and try to give some completly insignificant symbolism.

    I say it again, i would ruin the tension at the start of the film with a gunbarrel. A tenison which is built up so good with the MGM logo and onwards. And the whole meaning with QoS was that Bond was going to find himself in a way.

    This again, ties up to the misleading CR ending (which makes us think Bond has found himself and has become the Bond we know). And I'm with DC on this, I couldn't care less about all the "deeper meanings" in QOS.

    I don't give a crap if the action scenes symbolised the elements, they're still too much and the Bourne style editing doesn't work. I don't care about QOS gunbarrel meaning Bond finds himself, because it's still a crap gunbarrel. I really don't like it when I say "I don't like QOS", and then there are people saying "pfft, you're just too dumb to realize how good it is"

    And like I said, they could've played the music over the traditional GB at the start to keep the tension, have it start there instead of the studio logos. Problem solved.

    first about the misleading CR ending..... knowing full well going in to CR that the next film was going to be a direct sequel, continuing the story from the end of CR - I don't understand how it could be misleading - nowhere does it say, that he has become the Bond we all know at the end of CR.. and if you're going to try and tie that in with him saying "the name is Bond, James Bond." then that's just as lousy a form of symbolism as you claim the gun barrel at the end of QOS is...

    IMO, the gun barrel at the end of QOS has very little to do with symbolizing "James becoming BOND" as it probably is just more of a bookend to the whole 2 film Vesper story, considering the way QOS ends is intentionally similar to way CR begins - that is it.... i think there is more symbolism in him tossing the necklace and walking away than in the gun barrel.... but people will read in to what they may...

  • AnonAnon
    edited July 2012 Posts: 246
    First of all, the gun barrel element serves as a logo. It says "this isn't any old action flick - this is a James Bond movie." The natural place for such a device is right at the start.

    There's no problem updating the logo itself - animating the rifling, adding the odd bullet, and generally keeping up with the times in terms of graphic design. It's good that each and every sequence has its own take on the music too (cemented with From Russia With Love really, with usually subtle variations thereafter.)

    That it's been cleverly used as part of the narrative in Casino Royale and, arguably, Quantum of Solace, instead of as a straightforward logo, sets a precedent.

    So, if the gun barrel is to be anywhere other than at the start in Skyfall, there ought to be a good reason for it - one that hasn't been used before.

    Of course, they may just decide to drop it altogether?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    HASEROT wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Bond movies are entertainement for the masses.

    i find this one statement interesting, in an ironic sort of way.. considering who it is coming from...

    I beg your pardon ?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    @haserot Like I already said, I knew there would be a direct sequel, but I thought he'd be the classic Bond in it. And like I already said, Bond wearing a suit, Bond theme playing, expertly shooting a guy, "Bond, James Bond", sounds like classic Bond to me.

    And Martin Campbell said Bond would be classic Bond by the end of CR in an interview, I'm sure I can find it.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Yep here it is.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_bond_begins.php3?t=bond21&s=bond21

    "In the new film, Bond is essentially starting out in his career, and has just recently become part of the double-0 section. The idea is to put a bit of the dash back in Bond. By the end of the movie, the character will have been forged into the wiser, harder Bond we know."
  • StartStoppingStartStopping
    Posts: 140
    Getting back to gunbarrels.
    The music in this concept is fantastic. Fits perfect with Craig's bond. Just you know...ignore the image haha
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Yep here it is.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_bond_begins.php3?t=bond21&s=bond21

    "In the new film, Bond is essentially starting out in his career, and has just recently become part of the double-0 section. The idea is to put a bit of the dash back in Bond. By the end of the movie, the character will have been forged into the wiser, harder Bond we know."

    okay... well, Campbell wasn't involed in QOS - and had he been, maybe his words would've held up a little bit more.... Campbell could've said anything for the end of CR, doesn't mean it's gospel for the sequel..

    besides, in QOS i do think Bond is a little more wiser and harder - but he's still a bit rough around the edges still.. the problem is, is that the movie is so crammed with action, and moves at such a rapid pace that it leaves little time to breathe... but i think there are instances of classic Bond in QOS..

    not directed at anyone in particular, but its like some people are waiting for Craig to really ham it up like Brozzers and have a smirk and a forced oneliner every 2 minutes...... to those people, i wouldn't hold your breath.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    StartStopping wrote:
    Getting back to gunbarrels.
    The music in this concept is fantastic. Fits perfect with Craig's bond. Just you know...ignore the image haha

    if SKYFALL opened with a little more refined version of this, i'd be completely happy...

    for some reason the beginning of the music reminds me of the LTK gunbarrel - and i love the nice subtle touch of the DN effects..... A+ for a fan made gunbarrel.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    HASEROT wrote:
    not directed at anyone in particular, but its like some people are waiting for Craig to really ham it up like Brozzers and have a smirk and a forced oneliner every 2 minutes...... to those people, i wouldn't hold your breath.

    Dalton, Connery, and sometimes Brosnan proved you can be classic Bond without cracking out a one liner every two minutes. There can be a middle ground humour and seriousness.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited July 2012 Posts: 4,399
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    not directed at anyone in particular, but its like some people are waiting for Craig to really ham it up like Brozzers and have a smirk and a forced oneliner every 2 minutes...... to those people, i wouldn't hold your breath.

    Dalton, Connery, and sometimes Brosnan proved you can be classic Bond without cracking out a one liner every two minutes. There can be a middle ground humour and seriousness.

    which there was plenty of, in both CR and QOS... just because Dan doesn't do it with a wink and a smile doesn't mean its not there... he's very dry about it - he doesn't lob up one liners or quips like softballs.

    Brosnan only ever achieved said 'middle ground' in GE and partially in TWINE... other than that, he was more or less a poor man's Roger Moore.

  • SportzStooge007SportzStooge007
    Posts: 7
    Anon wrote:
    First of all, the gun barrel element serves as a logo. It says "this isn't any old action flick - this is a James Bond movie." The natural place for such a device is right at the start.

    There's no problem updating the logo itself - animating the rifling, adding the odd bullet, and generally keeping up with the times in terms of graphic design. It's good that each and every sequence has its own take on the music too (cemented with From Russia With Love really, with usually subtle variations thereafter.)

    That it's been cleverly used as part of the narrative in Casino Royale and, arguably, Quantum of Solace, instead of as a straightforward logo, sets a precedent.

    So, if the gun barrel is to be anywhere other than at the start in Skyfall, there ought to be a good reason for it - one that hasn't been used before.

    Of course, they may just decide to drop it altogether?

    I hereby declare this post to be the definitive answer to all questions posed by this thread.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    HASEROT wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    not directed at anyone in particular, but its like some people are waiting for Craig to really ham it up like Brozzers and have a smirk and a forced oneliner every 2 minutes...... to those people, i wouldn't hold your breath.

    Dalton, Connery, and sometimes Brosnan proved you can be classic Bond without cracking out a one liner every two minutes. There can be a middle ground humour and seriousness.

    which there was plenty of, in both CR and QOS... just because Dan doesn't do it with a wink and a smile doesn't mean its not there... he's very dry about it - he doesn't lob up one liners or quips like softballs.

    Brosnan only ever achieved said 'middle ground' in GE and partially in TWINE... other than that, he was more or less a poor man's Roger Moore.

    I wouldn't call him a poor mans Roger Moore, but I know he did use the one liners alot sometimes, which is why I said he sometimes finds that middle ground. I think he only really went overboard in TND. Craig had some funny lines in CR, he had two funny line in QOS (the hotel bit and the handcuffs bit). Connery, Brosnan sometimes and even Dalton (a much more serious Bond than most) used more one liners than Craig without going overboard.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    not directed at anyone in particular, but its like some people are waiting for Craig to really ham it up like Brozzers and have a smirk and a forced oneliner every 2 minutes...... to those people, i wouldn't hold your breath.

    Dalton, Connery, and sometimes Brosnan proved you can be classic Bond without cracking out a one liner every two minutes. There can be a middle ground humour and seriousness.

    which there was plenty of, in both CR and QOS... just because Dan doesn't do it with a wink and a smile doesn't mean its not there... he's very dry about it - he doesn't lob up one liners or quips like softballs.

    Brosnan only ever achieved said 'middle ground' in GE and partially in TWINE... other than that, he was more or less a poor man's Roger Moore.

    I wouldn't call him a poor mans Roger Moore, but I know he did use the one liners alot sometimes, which is why I said he sometimes finds that middle ground. I think he only really went overboard in TND. Craig had some funny lines in CR, he had two funny line in QOS (the hotel bit and the handcuffs bit). Connery, Brosnan sometimes and even Dalton (a much more serious Bond than most) used more one liners than Craig without going overboard.

    "don't bleed to death."

    "i dont think he smoked."

    "can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a new place to meet."

    "I'm sure they do."

    "oh a compliment?"

    "he wanted you, but I offered him the car as collateral."

    "you going to try and shoot me?"

    i think it's safe to say he had far more than just 2..



  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I can't remember every line of dialouge in the film. I forgot about the new place to meet line, I like that one. Some of those don't seem that funny but I can't remember what scenes they're from.

    I still think Craig was nowhere near on the same level he was in CR for QOS.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    Yes, it needs to return. And so does the Theme Song for Pete's Sake. If the theme isn't in the full trailer I'll be very annoyed.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    HASEROT wrote:

    "can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a new place to meet."

    "I'm sure they do."

    "you going to try and shoot me?"

    i think it's safe to say he had far more than just 2..

    My favorites. If you sit back and enjoy the film for what it is, I think people would find more enjoyment in QoS.
  • JPinFLAJPinFLA
    Posts: 54
    StartStopping wrote:
    Getting back to gunbarrels.
    The music in this concept is fantastic. Fits perfect with Craig's bond. Just you know...ignore the image haha

    OK, so I've just played this for the 10th time. IMO, EXTREMELY WELL DONE!!! Thank you for this. If only today were November 8th!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2012 Posts: 6,304
    CraterGuns wrote:
    The FYEO gunbarrel should have Christopher Walken (as Max Zorin) blurting, "More... More cowbell!"

    ROFL!

    I never understood why the circle doesn't open out slowly, as usual. Is it supposed to be like an eye blinking open?
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    And that the gunbarrel in the end shows that Bond is the man we know so well in the end. He learns about Vesper and he can finally move on.

    Appalling decision. The gunbarrel didn't have any symbolic meaning for the first 20 films, so there was no need to temper with it and try to give some completly insignificant symbolism.

    I say it again, i would ruin the tension at the start of the film with a gunbarrel. A tenison which is built up so good with the MGM logo and onwards. And the whole meaning with QoS was that Bond was going to find himself in a way.

    This again, ties up to the misleading CR ending (which makes us think Bond has found himself and has become the Bond we know). And I'm with DC on this, I couldn't care less about all the "deeper meanings" in QOS.

    I don't give a crap if the action scenes symbolised the elements, they're still too much and the Bourne style editing doesn't work. I don't care about QOS gunbarrel meaning Bond finds himself, because it's still a crap gunbarrel. I really don't like it when I say "I don't like QOS", and then there are people saying "pfft, you're just too dumb to realise how good it is"

    And like I said, they could've played the music over the traditional GB at the start to keep the tension, have it start there instead of the studio logos. Problem solved.

    CLAP CLAP CLAP!
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