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The rest of his post explains why this is a good thing. This means he never has missed opportunities to kill him, and when he does find out who Bond is he doesn't waste any time like other villians have.
I disagree. Though you are correct in that Bond fools the villain for practically the whole movie, that is precisely the point. As soon as Sanchez finds out, he wastes no time in trying to eliminate him. That's what I would call practical. Unlike all the other villains who know exactly who he is and still waste all the time in the world (pun intended) in doing so.
You know? This is who I thought of too! She's the only one to REALLY outsmart Bond the way she did. All the great villains were made the fool by Bond: Dr. No and Goldfinger included.
I think that Bond's infiltration more shows his excessive skill in his chosen profession, instead of making Sanchez look incompetent.
"Red wine with fish. Well that should have told me something."
All other Bond villains, like Goldfinger, Largo, Drax, Orlov and Zorin came close to huge destruction (An explosion of an atomic bomb would mean the start of a new World War), but it actually never happened. Bond, as you expect from the alltime superhero, prevented the villain's sick schemes.
Having said that, 'Skyfall' in my opinion greatly succeeded, because this was actually the first time ever in a Bond film where you could actually see so much terrorism, death and destruction. A resumé:
--> Silva hacking into deep top secret institutions of governments, right from his private island off the Chinese coast, is actually something we have witnessed with the entire WikiLeaks affair.
--> When Silva's posting the names of secret agents embedded in terrorist organizations across the globe, we see 'M', Tanner and Mallory watching the latest BBC News: "Captain Hussain, an MI6-agent embedded in the Middle East, was assasinated."
--> The actual terrorist attack, which in essence was Silva's first part of the revenge, worked tremendously. 'M' actually witnessed a huge attack on MI6 Headquarters at Vauxhall Cross. Result: Eight people killed.
--> Silva's assassin, Patrice, creates a huge turmoil in central Istanbul, where several Turkish policemen are being killed. How many people got killed there? Not exactly known, but all policemen on motorbikes seemed to be eliminated.
--> Patrice's trail of death continues in China, where he kills a guard and a Chinese businessman who's interested in stolen art. Death count: Two
--> The way Silva killed his misstress Severine is truly psychotic. Here you can see his true spirit: A villain who actually enjoys killing and who uses these killings to let someone else pay for it.
--> The moment when Silva escapes from MI6 temporal underground headquarters. All guards killed.
--> Another 'terrorist attack' when Silva manages to derail an entire train in the tube. Many travellers in that train must have been severely injured.
--> The moment when Silva and his gunmen, dressed up as Metropolitan Policemen, enter the government house and the hearing room. There must have been many casualties there. Several 'real' policemen got killed.
--> And on top of it all, Silva literally manages to 'break' 'M'. "Too many people are dying because of me." Logically spoken she is right. Silva would say the same. The line 'Think on your sins' actually start working exactly there.
--> The death of 'M'. Allthough Silva could not witness it himself, he managed to 'break' 'M' forever. 'M' died tragically in James Bond's arms.
This might actually be the first Bond villain ever who can be truly 'proud' of his achievements. It's a sick fact, but it is true. If you can name another Bond film in which the villain's scheme worked and was very effective, from the villain's point of view.....please don't hesitate to make some comparisons :-)!
After the villain's scheme in 'Skyfall', I think the villain's scheme of General Orlov in 'Octopussy' was quite sick and very dangerous. The atomic bomb never exploded on the US Airbase Feldstadt, but if it did.......the repercussions would really have been devastating.
Yes, Silva caused a lot of destruction and deaths, but ultimately failed in his main goal, and even though M died anyway, he couldn't know she would. He must have died believing she would survive.
It can also be argued that Silva was successful, but I don't share that view myself.
One of the greatest things about Skyfall is that it prompts debate on several aspects of it (which can't be said for all Bond films), showing us the depth of the film and its thought provoking nature. Furthermore, I am sure I will still spot little details even after I have seen it a dozen times. It is a special films in so many respects.
I think that's not entirely true. Silva was already 'manipulating stocks' and 'influence elections in Uganda' with his cyber machines. For what we know, Silva could have been a paid cyber terrorist. Or how else could he have executed all these sick cyber terrorist attacks? Moreover, from his deserted island he was already working effectively.
I think all villains in essence have something tragical in their 'mental system'. It's part revenge (Blofeld in FRWL avenging the death of Dr.No. Dr.No himself actually whose expertises was ignored by the Americans and Russians) and part a true plan to destabilize the world (Orlov planning to set of an atomic bomb in OP, Silva planning to steal lists of secret agents....WikiLeaks-like)
At least we could agree on one thing: 'Skyfall' is the Bond-film thus far with the most death and destruction.
Yup. I do agree. That's the wunderful thing about films like 'Casino Royale', 'Quantum Of Solace' and 'Skyfall'. Besides being good to very good Bond films, they are also exquisit 'films' on the whole with political themes and dramatic depth incorporated. And you keep discovering these little themes after watching 'Skyfall' over and over again.
In my opinion, that's also Sam Mendes' contribution. And I truly believe this is how Ian Fleming wanted to see his James Bond novels come alive.
I think you would like this post as well @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 ;-): http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4593/skyfall-has-a-political-theme.-please-let-us-discuss-this-underappreciated-part-of-cinema./p2#Item_36
I didn't say Skyfall had most death and destruction in it. :) I haven't done a body count on any films - because it's not really something that interests me anyway, and also it's often impossible to know how many supposedly die.
I so agree with both of you on this.
A) Death and destruction,
B) Personal revenge & recognition,
C) Ransom & laundering money,
D) Scaring/Threaten people, or....
E) A combination of the above
Elektra would've killed Bond and succeeded in her plan if Zukofsy hadn't barged in. You could say the same for others though. Sanchez had Bond going into a cocaine gridner and if it wasn't for Felix Bond might not have been able to disarm Goldfingers bomb.
But then Goldfinger was incompetent in that he kept Bond alive way longer than he needed to (even when his plan is going into action he shoots him instead of chaining him to the bomb), and Elektra's plan is much bigger than Sanchez's.
The only real mistake Elektra made was not just shooting Bond instead of torturing him but nearly every Bond villian is guilty of that so I'll let her off.
A case could also be made for Blofeld but then he did let the ninjas into his volcanoe base. Bond never tricked Elektra that way. So yep I think Elektra takes it.
Taking my list into account, I think Silva truly succeeded.
Let's not forget, in the end NO Bond villain succeeds, because they all die in the end. Dr. No, Klebb, Grant, Goldfinger, Largo, Kananga, Scaramanga, Stromberg, Drax, the bald headed villain in FYEO, Kristatos, Orlov, Kahn, Maximilian Largo, Zorin, Whitaker, Sanchez, Trevelyan, Carver, King & Renard, Graves, Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva. They all died. With some exceptions, perhaps Blofeld, Koskov and Mr White are still hanging around somewhere, but apart from these all Bond villains fail, because they die.
Also, one could question every Bond villain. From making the entire gold supply of Fort Knox radioactive (GF) to using diamonds for a destructive satellite (DAF). From thinking that you can hold the world ransom with a solar power energy facility (TMWTGG) to stockpiling.....water (QOS). From stealing an ATAC-system and selling it to the highest bidder (FYEO) to stealing a harddrive with NATO-spies (SF). They all are more or less ridiculous.
I do think that it's also important to notice which villain's scheme is actually closest to real-life (political) events. I always found that fascilitating into wars for own selfish purposes (TB, YOLT, TSWLM, OP) was weird, cheesy and not realistic at all. But the recent Craig-films have shown us that this is what certain intelligence services, like the CIA, are actually doing. Not to mention other powers besides nations and secret services. I only have to mention 9/11 and suddenly it's so simple to destabilize governments.
When it comes to realism, I think Orlov's scheme in 'Octopussy' was actually the most dangerous of all Bond films. IF that bomb did go off, it would have led to serious destabilization of the entire region where the iron curtain was located.
What Silva did in 'Skyfall'? Effective? It's hard to judge that. But his terrorist attacks on London must have led to some serious political changes, for example an even more xenofobic 'feel' on the entire British island. So you could say Silva succeeded in both scaring the government and all the British citizens as well as making 'M' go 'crumble' completely. You can agree with me or not, but if Silva wasn't there, 'M' would have enjoyed a way more easier pension. Now.....she did not die on the height of her career, but during the worst ever moment of her career. Silva must look up from hell with a smile if you ask me.....
Then, when it comes to killing people, to destroy cities......Silva might be the first ever Bond villain in doing so. The trace of death and destruction he left in the UK upon his death is something we should not underestimate.
And that's another way of looking at it hehehehe :-P. But it's true also.
But if I had to choose the most competent, I would have to say the early Blofeld (FRWL-OHMSS).
1) Exposed the list of NATO agents, thereby endangering hundreds, if not thousands of deep cover operatives that will probably be killed or traded off ala Silva himself
2) Hacked into the Mi6 with technology that still has not been officially quarantined and at large
3) Embarrassed the Mi6 with said hacking and the entire crisis regarding the agents, essentially leaving a permanent mark into their efficiency and failure
4) Scare Great Britain into a national crisis by having the tube compromise and at the same time launch a assassination attempt on MPs that left many civilians and policemen killed
5) Killed M (Though he doesn't see it)
6) Psychologically hurts Bond by killing M, burning his childhood home, his favorite car and force him to consider that he might very well end up like him in the future
7) Leaves absolutely no trace of his organization (Assuming that he has secured the technology left on the island and that the majority of his team came with him to Scotland)
I am not sure about the civilian deaths Silva caused, his killing of M (he clearly didn't), him psychologically hurting Bond, him making Bond wonder if he would turn into him in the future (I see no sign of that anywhere), and he certainly isn't a part of an organization of any sort.
1) Gets kidnapped but wraps the terrorist round her little finger, she starts shagging him, gets him to fall in love with her and begins her evil plan when her ransom isn't paid.
2) After pretending to have been traumatised, years later, she sets it up so there is an explosion at MI6 which kills her father and MI6 staff nearby. And she did it 13 years before Silva :P
3) Does exactly what she did with Renard to Bond (gets him to start having feelings for her), to try and throw MI6 off her tail.
4) Gets Renard to steal a nuclear bomb, killing several scientists and guards at the silo in Khazakhstan.
5) Kidnaps M. Which Silva tried and failed to do.
6) Captures Bond and Christmas. Tortures Bond and plans to destroy the Russian pipeline with the nuke, allowing her pipeline to go around Istanbul and making herself even richer (Silva's evil plan was essentially kill M, which Elektra is doing anyway on top of making a fortune).
7) Kills Zukofsky (and if he didn't have a cane gun, would've killed Bond), then taunts Bond and forces him to kill her. Bond is shown to be affected by this and there's a moment of regret, although it doesn't affect him like Vesper or Tracy's death.
So I think Elektra edges it over Silva (who is one of the more competent Bond villians).
Also, it was not actually Silva who burned Bond's childhood home, but Bond himself - and I got the impression that did him good, instead of hurting him.
Of the list of agents, only 5 were actually exposed (3 of them killed) as far as we know, not hundreds or thousands.
Another thoughtful post, as usual, Tuulia.
I agree that Silva failed. His goal throughout was to humiliate M: "Think on your sins." And he ultimately tried for a murder-suicide. Instead Bond and M thwarted his plans, first at Parliament and finally at Skyfall.
I've wondered why M dies from a random shot from a redshirt, not from a direct injury from the main villain, and your explanation is the most plausible.
Agreed; Tuulia often adds comments where she has clearly thought things through in a most thoughtful way. Always very interesting to read her posts.
It's interesting how Silva's death is, on the surface, the opposite of Khan's in The Wrath of Khan. Many people think that it was so...bad-ass that Khan got to die believing that he had succeeded in killing Kirk when in fact he hadn't. Silva died thinking that Bond saved M so that he had failed...but did he?
Silva did complete the humiliation of M. If not for his stealing of the hard drive then she wouldn't have been forced out of her job, a situation that was deeply humiliating for her (one could surmise that the death of her husband left her job as being the most meaningful thing in her life). He escaped custody and shot up the parliamentary hearing showing her that MI6 did not succeed and that he was the one in control - until being stopped by Bond. And M died as a result of Silva's men attacking Skyfall Lodge, which was orchestrated by Silva. So in many ways, he succeeded with earlier parts of his plan, and succeeded to a degree with the final objective.
I can understand why people would think that Silva was a very successful Bond villian.
Well if that's your only criteria of competence Silva does a reasonable job but he's not number 1.
We does he actually achieve? He blows a hole in the MI6 building (killing 8), he exposes some agents (causing the death of at least one), blows a hole in a tube tunnel (killing the driver) and shoots up the select committee (killing half a dozen police).
The deaths of Severine and M and the destruction of Skyfall I'm not counting as these are very small potatoes globally. And even though he technically succeeds in his plot to kill M this is not exactly down to his genius planning. If M had skulked in the corner instead of trying to be Charles Bronson she wouldnt have been shot and Bond wouldve saved the day again.
I would contend that DAFs Blofeld blows Silva out of the water. He blows up a nuclear sub (the crew of which alone greatly outnumbers Silvas bodycount), a Minuteman missile silo and a Chinese base. Not only is the destruction on a greater scale than detailing a tube train but it is also globally more destabilising. No one outside of England really gives a toss about Silva quite frankly.
Also Blofeld overall has a case to be most competent (if you ignore his wasteful profligacy in building hollowed out volcanoes and a space program just to get some money off the Chinese).
In FRWL he would succeed if Bond hadnt come through the toughest fight of his career, in YOLT he was 8 seconds from his objective, in OHMSS the UN bottled it and were going to pay him off if it wasnt for Bond going rogue to blow up Piz Gloria (although Ernst had the last laugh) and in DAF he was again seconds away.
In TB he pulled off an awesome coup in stealing the bombs but after that it was a bit shambolic. Largo never gets near to detonating the bombs (which for me is the reason TB is fairly devoid of tension).
In terms of threat to world security Silva is a non-entity compared to Ernst.