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Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?
As much as I love Dalton's take on Bond, all the Dalton-bashing on these forums has made me question whether he could have made a commercial success of GE in the way that Brosnan did. In a sense, the storyline would have suited him perfectly, as it nicely references the gap between the movies. I've read people who say GE was written with Dalton in mind, which makes a lot of sense when you think about the plot. But many posters on these forums are convinced that Dalton was unpopular with the audience and that a third outing would have meant the end of Bond. Perhaps Dalton was his own worst enemy - openly predicting that LTK would be the last in the series. My own feeling has always been that it would have been great to have a third Dalton film but that after LTK he would have needed to lighten up a bit and perhaps return more to the feel of TLD. Since Cubby liked to mix things up and keep things fresh, I have no doubt that Dalton's third outing would have been very different in tone to LTK and would have gone a long way to answer the critics who accuse him of being 'too dark'.
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Comments
part of the contribution towards LTK's box office short comings, was due to a crowded summer in '89, which had not only the third Indiana Jones film, but also the mega popular Batman flick.. this is precisely the reason why (starting with GE) the Bond films moved from the summer, to the holiday season - to avoid the gamut of blockbuster openings..
but it is no secret, that at the time of Dalton's appointment as 007, the general public were dead set on Brosnan taking over the role (which he would have, had it not been for Remington Steele stepping in at the last minute to reel him back)... so to many, Brosnan as Bond in GE was a long time coming - probably even overdue to many as well....
Dalton did well as Bond - but he wasn't setting the world aflame with his take either..... so as it pains me to say (because i am a Dalton fan), it was probably for the best that he stepped aside... because GE was a smash hit, and secured Bond's place back at the box office again..... could it have done so with Dalton? maybe, we'll never know..
Dalton is one who seems to have gained a following over time, much like Lazenby - and his films, with repeated viewings, have aged gracefully among the fanbase.
He did? I dont remember that? And I have been a Dalton watcher since 1987..
I think it would have been a success as no Bond film has flopped (OHMSS broke even eventually) and the world was gagging for James Bond by 1995.
But it may not have ,made as much as with Pierce in it, but it would have made money. Enough to please the MGM suits? I dont know...
I just don't think he was as famous (certainly in the UK) as we are sometimes led to believe. Perhaps I'm wrong, but he certainly wasn't a household name (maybe he was in the US?) in the way that Roger Moore was in 1973, off the back of The Saint and The Persuaders.
All that being said, I don't think a Dalton 'Goldeneye' would have made as much money as Brosnan's version did. The novelty of a new Bond, merely added to the build-up of anticipation, during the lay off.
The film NEEDED to bring back Bond in a big way. I don't mean to bash Dalton (again) but I just don't think he's a star. At THAT point Bond needed a star, it needed someone who was popular (i.e. In America).
@actonsteve
Apparently Dalton did. I've read that too. Whether it's true or not who knows but it does kind of go against the claim Cubby made in 1989 on Terry Wogan that "Bond will live on forever".
I'm starting to think that KIll REALLY damaged the series if claims like that are being made by it's star.
@BAIN123 See, I think this would've made Dalton a star. I love Brosnan but I'd have preferred Dalton for GE.
there was a (non scientific) poll conducted by the media in or around the mid 80s, as to who should take over as Bond once Moore was done..... Brosnan was by and away the audience favorite, primarily due to the fact he played a roll in Remington Steele that was very Bond-like....
it's on a video somewhere - i think it might be on HapHazardStuff's website.
of course goldeneye would have been better, its already observed that the script is drasticly rewritten and dumbed down, perhaps to the point where it becomes senseless. i enjoyed the backstory of blofeld in he thunderball book but i couldnt gather where or when 006 made his deal with Oromov. and in the game remake i didnt even know what way was xenia even connected to anyone? she just showed up to react death sequences.
I'd like to add that was brosnon not called the billion dollar bond because his films were progressivly making more money. a trend observed widely as the avengers nearly takes a billion being out than less that 2 weeks. needless to say Bond opening night views will always be high. Even those ones brosnan made that people thought wer e buit of a dud. QoS still made money through despite being poorly written and apparently made up by daniel craig himself.
I think the rest period of Bonds brings alot of people out from under there rocks. but bond is bond and people will watch whatever they put his name on, or read, or wear, or play. Bond is and "official" "FRanchise" if they made him a woman and she couldnt drive and sat in an office all day. people would still in some way show up to disbelieve it and spend money in the process.
I think Lazenby was proof enough that Bond did not rely on the actor to sell, the only reason Connery came back was because he was wanted back and he saw and angle to get two films off the ground for himself. and a solid pay check.
Enough of these forum posts all they seem to do is antagonise and bring about rather stagnant realms of thought.
Why has no one tried to get dalton to record all the books as audio plays?
Hats off to all of them.
I think Brosnan did a decent job with Goldeneye. It was an excellent debut, but, in the back of my mind, is always the nagging thought when I watch it: - "This is where Tim would have hit his stride."
A shame, in many ways.
It makes for futile conversation
that had nothing to do with it...
MGM was in a $5 billion dollar debt - and after 2 years of trying to (A) Find a buyer and (B) restructure their debt into equity, we finally get a Bond film...
filming was slated to begin in 2011, with a late 2011 release... but because of MGM's financial crisis, everything was put on hold - which ended up working out in the end, because we get a Bond film in it's 50th anniversary year..
delayed production had nothing to do with QOS.
But Dalton's GE might have worked too. LTK hadn't been the success they'd hoped for but neither had TMWTGG been. Then they both introduced a longer-than-usual gap. It worked for TSWLM. It could have equally worked for Dalton.
Lastly, a Dalton GE would have had a different script. It might have come off as an entirely different film alltogether. So who knows...
I'm not sure about the competion being the reason LTK under performed, nobody ever mentions that AVTAK was against Back to the Future, Rocky 4 and Rambo 2 which were all monster hits in the US.
I've said this before but the difference there was that Moore was ALREADY a hugely popular star both in the US and the UK thanks to The Saint and The Persuaders. It was known that people liked him.
After LTK and a 6 hear hiatus,Dalton would not have been able to pull the crowds back to see the film,especially in the US where he was never popular from the start.
It needed a star who was popular and could play the role in a more light hearted way and who could be convincing but throw a one liner when need be.
Brosnan fitted the role for the time and the revenue proved it,and he should be applauded for that.
Now as for 'would it have been as successful'? Realistically, probably not. But it sure wouldn't have tanked either! Plus I think like a lot of movies, we'd all appreciate it more today. I could easily compare the scenario to what we have going on today: Daniel Craig does CR, QOS, then a big gap-- and now he's BACK for SF. And the public is excited! I think this may be the biggest one yet!
Like Dalton, not everyone loves Daniel Craig, but everyone's excited to have BOND back!
Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone who lived through it: I'm sort of under the impression that whoever in the general public didn't like Dalton are the ones who missed Moore. I'm of the belief that after the hiatus they would have been more ready for Dalton's style.
I would have just loved Dalton to stick around for GE. Pierce could have the other three (and a 4th in 2004)
I certainly would not have enjoyed Brosnan-ised TLD & LTK.
Pierce in TLD was this close to happening though. He even did his screen tests with Maryam D'Abo- I'd have loved to see those tests!
God no (and this is coming from a Brosnan fan). I've seen Remington Steele, and Brosnan wasn't great in it. I like Brosnan, I rank him 2nd, but let's face it he's not the best actor, especially not back in the 80s. He couldn't have handled TLD and (especially), LTK.
Anyway, I think GE would have still been successful with Dalton (maybe not as successful though). I can't speak for everyone, but back when GE was coming out, even though I was sad that Dalton was gone, I didn't care that much about how played Bond. I was just glad we were getting a Bond film. So I think after 6 years, people were hyped for a new Bond film and the actor didn't make too much difference.
After the legal issues, the "confused production" was due to a writer's strike and a production behind schedule. I thought everyone knew that :-S
Pity, Dalton was heir apparent to SC throne.
First off, it made a conscious attempt to look and feel like a James Bond movie on the surface, much more so than LTK. The 6-year gap certainly played to its advantage, since that can create a fair amount of public anticipation more often than not. Thirdly, I do have to agree with those of you who have pointed out that a substantial portion of the public, at least in America, were waiting for the day that Brosnan would step into this role, so there was certainly a sense of wish-fulfillment there I believe, and I think it definitely contributed to the success. But there was one other major reason behind the success, which surprisingly I don't think any of you have mentioned. The marketing on GE was outstanding. Do you remember it? It was a stellar, stellar campaign. In fact, I recall one magazine claiming that it had been the best marketing campaign for a any film that year, and I believed that to be true even then. EON and MGM did a terrific job because it was simultaneously sold as retro and new. And that worked very well in my opinion. The whole "You expecting someone else?" line from the teaser was the clincher. It was very smart.
Now, if you consider all of this, I think it's fair to say that GE would have been a hit if Dalton was in it (the 6-year gap and the marketing would have worked to its advantage). However, I don't think it would have been as big as it was with Brosnan. Perhaps 60% - 70% of its final take. The Brosnan factor was significant. And though I'm truly not much of a fan of his and instead prefer Dalton all the way, as well as TLD and (especially) LTK, I think GE had the edge with Brosnan in it.
Now that is very interesting because over this side of the Bond Brosnan barely registered. His main point of notability was being linked with James Bond.
Remington Steele wasn't a big hit over here. It was on BBC2 on a week night and I think only lasted one or two seasons.
So, it was really the American public which went for Brosnan?
But yes, I believe here in America the public definitely accepted Brosnan and in some ways thought of him as a no-brainer for the role.
Yeah, I hadn't heard of Remington Steele until after he'd become Bond (I live in England).
Indeed. Had not really heard of Dalton either when TLD came out (although I was only 12 so my knowledge of Shakespearean actors was rather scant) but at least he had been in Flash Gordon (begs the question why did no one interview Peter Duncan for Bond?) I had absolutely no clue who Brosnan was at the time.
I remember in 007 magazine Graham Rye getting all excited saying that Brozza was the only candidate and was a fantastic choice (wonder if he still stands by those words?) but the only thing I was aware of was Mrs Doubtfire - hardly a great showreel to audition for Bond. And I dont know anyone this side of the pond who watched Remington Steele.