Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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Comments

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    One of the best casts in the series. Natalya is great. I just don't like her hairstyle /:)
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Yes, Craig lost brownie points with me as well after the faux suicidal ideations he made.

    Very much agreed. I was also rather confused by the lengths that some were willing to go to in order to defend Craig for those comments, while outright slamming Brosnan for having the slightest critique of SPECTRE while having nothing but praise for Craig's work in the film.

    The fact of the matter is that Craig is not the first actor to attempt a serious portrayal of Bond, yet it would seem that the media would like to crown him as such, or at least the first to attempt it since Sean Connery. While it would be nice if Dalton would get the credit that he clearly deserves, if for nothing else but attempting to bring the franchise back to something both closer to the novels as well as more in line with the tone of the original films as opposed to the camp of Diamonds are Forever onward, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Still, hopefully Craig's films have caused a few people to go back and give Dalton another look, and see that he was ahead of his time rather than the failure that many people perceive him to be.

    My opinion of Dalton has swayed back and forth ..thanks to a few here that have encouraged me to reevaluate Dalton I am back on board.

    I was a fan of Dalton during his tenure as Bond but I felt alone ...

    I have been critical of Dalton here but that's changing. I was too harsh...

    My gripe against the Dalton films still remains to be Glen. I really wish another director had helmed Dalton's outings.

    Sorry ...the acting in those two especially LTK just ruins what should have been classic outings.

    Sorry I had to vent.

    May be if we can convince you to reassess Dalton then we can also get you to reevaluate the criminally under appreciated John Glen as well. The man gave cinema some of the most iconic action sequences ever committed to celluloid and (IMO) five of the most consistently entertaining entries in the whole series. Even his less good films as Bond director have a lot going for them.

    His action sequences for LTK have been referenced and ripped off by so many other films and yet people make out that he's a director of no consequence.

    I appreciate that but I'm sorry I really am not a Glen fan.

    But yes I do agree that Glen did give us some iconic and often copied action sequences.

    And whomever mentioned the "chase bomb" sequence in OP is right. I love that part of the movie. OP is one of my favorites.

    Truly respect your opinion though.


    So OP is one of your favourites but you don't rate Glen...?

    I'll try and work that one out later.

    OP is top ten material for me. Possibly Moore's best.

    Yup I like OP ...nope not a Glen fan. Glen got worse each film after OP and ignoring the Tarzan yell and tennis sound effects OP is his best.

    I know where you're coming from. 80's are my favourite decade, but his films have a cheap made-for-tv look about them.

    The Living Daylights has some great cinematography.

    It has its moments but not much worth writing about. And I say this as someone with TLD ranked #1
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    One of the best casts in the series. Natalya is great. I just don't like her hairstyle /:)
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Yes, Craig lost brownie points with me as well after the faux suicidal ideations he made.

    Very much agreed. I was also rather confused by the lengths that some were willing to go to in order to defend Craig for those comments, while outright slamming Brosnan for having the slightest critique of SPECTRE while having nothing but praise for Craig's work in the film.

    The fact of the matter is that Craig is not the first actor to attempt a serious portrayal of Bond, yet it would seem that the media would like to crown him as such, or at least the first to attempt it since Sean Connery. While it would be nice if Dalton would get the credit that he clearly deserves, if for nothing else but attempting to bring the franchise back to something both closer to the novels as well as more in line with the tone of the original films as opposed to the camp of Diamonds are Forever onward, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Still, hopefully Craig's films have caused a few people to go back and give Dalton another look, and see that he was ahead of his time rather than the failure that many people perceive him to be.

    My opinion of Dalton has swayed back and forth ..thanks to a few here that have encouraged me to reevaluate Dalton I am back on board.

    I was a fan of Dalton during his tenure as Bond but I felt alone ...

    I have been critical of Dalton here but that's changing. I was too harsh...

    My gripe against the Dalton films still remains to be Glen. I really wish another director had helmed Dalton's outings.

    Sorry ...the acting in those two especially LTK just ruins what should have been classic outings.

    Sorry I had to vent.

    May be if we can convince you to reassess Dalton then we can also get you to reevaluate the criminally under appreciated John Glen as well. The man gave cinema some of the most iconic action sequences ever committed to celluloid and (IMO) five of the most consistently entertaining entries in the whole series. Even his less good films as Bond director have a lot going for them.

    His action sequences for LTK have been referenced and ripped off by so many other films and yet people make out that he's a director of no consequence.

    I appreciate that but I'm sorry I really am not a Glen fan.

    But yes I do agree that Glen did give us some iconic and often copied action sequences.

    And whomever mentioned the "chase bomb" sequence in OP is right. I love that part of the movie. OP is one of my favorites.

    Truly respect your opinion though.


    So OP is one of your favourites but you don't rate Glen...?

    I'll try and work that one out later.

    OP is top ten material for me. Possibly Moore's best.

    Yup I like OP ...nope not a Glen fan. Glen got worse each film after OP and ignoring the Tarzan yell and tennis sound effects OP is his best.

    I know where you're coming from. 80's are my favourite decade, but his films have a cheap made-for-tv look about them.

    The Living Daylights has some great cinematography.

    It does. Some of the early stuff in Austria looks very good.

    I like Glen but I can't help but think that he lacks a certain...dynamic flair maybe.

    You get the impression that it was "a job" rather than any real passion for the character. He was good with the action scenes as was shown during his work as editor but I do agree that sometimes his style felt a bit lightweight bar some exceptions.

    Up against the likes James Cameron and Renny Harlin (popular action directors in the early 90s) Glen would look like old hat.
  • Posts: 4,325
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    One of the best casts in the series. Natalya is great. I just don't like her hairstyle /:)
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Yes, Craig lost brownie points with me as well after the faux suicidal ideations he made.

    Very much agreed. I was also rather confused by the lengths that some were willing to go to in order to defend Craig for those comments, while outright slamming Brosnan for having the slightest critique of SPECTRE while having nothing but praise for Craig's work in the film.

    The fact of the matter is that Craig is not the first actor to attempt a serious portrayal of Bond, yet it would seem that the media would like to crown him as such, or at least the first to attempt it since Sean Connery. While it would be nice if Dalton would get the credit that he clearly deserves, if for nothing else but attempting to bring the franchise back to something both closer to the novels as well as more in line with the tone of the original films as opposed to the camp of Diamonds are Forever onward, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Still, hopefully Craig's films have caused a few people to go back and give Dalton another look, and see that he was ahead of his time rather than the failure that many people perceive him to be.

    My opinion of Dalton has swayed back and forth ..thanks to a few here that have encouraged me to reevaluate Dalton I am back on board.

    I was a fan of Dalton during his tenure as Bond but I felt alone ...

    I have been critical of Dalton here but that's changing. I was too harsh...

    My gripe against the Dalton films still remains to be Glen. I really wish another director had helmed Dalton's outings.

    Sorry ...the acting in those two especially LTK just ruins what should have been classic outings.

    Sorry I had to vent.

    May be if we can convince you to reassess Dalton then we can also get you to reevaluate the criminally under appreciated John Glen as well. The man gave cinema some of the most iconic action sequences ever committed to celluloid and (IMO) five of the most consistently entertaining entries in the whole series. Even his less good films as Bond director have a lot going for them.

    His action sequences for LTK have been referenced and ripped off by so many other films and yet people make out that he's a director of no consequence.

    I appreciate that but I'm sorry I really am not a Glen fan.

    But yes I do agree that Glen did give us some iconic and often copied action sequences.

    And whomever mentioned the "chase bomb" sequence in OP is right. I love that part of the movie. OP is one of my favorites.

    Truly respect your opinion though.


    So OP is one of your favourites but you don't rate Glen...?

    I'll try and work that one out later.

    OP is top ten material for me. Possibly Moore's best.

    Yup I like OP ...nope not a Glen fan. Glen got worse each film after OP and ignoring the Tarzan yell and tennis sound effects OP is his best.

    I know where you're coming from. 80's are my favourite decade, but his films have a cheap made-for-tv look about them.

    The Living Daylights has some great cinematography.

    It does. Some of the early stuff in Austria looks very good.

    I like Glen but I can't help but think that he lacks a certain...dynamic flair maybe.

    You get the impression that it was "a job" rather than any real passion for the character. He was good with the action scenes as was shown during his work as editor but I do agree that sometimes his style felt a bit lightweight bar some exceptions.

    Up against the likes James Cameron and Renny Harlin (popular action directors in the early 90s) Glen would look like old hat.

    Yeah I think it's telling that he didn't have much of a directorial career outside of Bond.
  • Posts: 11,189
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    One of the best casts in the series. Natalya is great. I just don't like her hairstyle /:)
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Yes, Craig lost brownie points with me as well after the faux suicidal ideations he made.

    Very much agreed. I was also rather confused by the lengths that some were willing to go to in order to defend Craig for those comments, while outright slamming Brosnan for having the slightest critique of SPECTRE while having nothing but praise for Craig's work in the film.

    The fact of the matter is that Craig is not the first actor to attempt a serious portrayal of Bond, yet it would seem that the media would like to crown him as such, or at least the first to attempt it since Sean Connery. While it would be nice if Dalton would get the credit that he clearly deserves, if for nothing else but attempting to bring the franchise back to something both closer to the novels as well as more in line with the tone of the original films as opposed to the camp of Diamonds are Forever onward, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Still, hopefully Craig's films have caused a few people to go back and give Dalton another look, and see that he was ahead of his time rather than the failure that many people perceive him to be.

    My opinion of Dalton has swayed back and forth ..thanks to a few here that have encouraged me to reevaluate Dalton I am back on board.

    I was a fan of Dalton during his tenure as Bond but I felt alone ...

    I have been critical of Dalton here but that's changing. I was too harsh...

    My gripe against the Dalton films still remains to be Glen. I really wish another director had helmed Dalton's outings.

    Sorry ...the acting in those two especially LTK just ruins what should have been classic outings.

    Sorry I had to vent.

    May be if we can convince you to reassess Dalton then we can also get you to reevaluate the criminally under appreciated John Glen as well. The man gave cinema some of the most iconic action sequences ever committed to celluloid and (IMO) five of the most consistently entertaining entries in the whole series. Even his less good films as Bond director have a lot going for them.

    His action sequences for LTK have been referenced and ripped off by so many other films and yet people make out that he's a director of no consequence.

    I appreciate that but I'm sorry I really am not a Glen fan.

    But yes I do agree that Glen did give us some iconic and often copied action sequences.

    And whomever mentioned the "chase bomb" sequence in OP is right. I love that part of the movie. OP is one of my favorites.

    Truly respect your opinion though.


    So OP is one of your favourites but you don't rate Glen...?

    I'll try and work that one out later.

    OP is top ten material for me. Possibly Moore's best.

    Yup I like OP ...nope not a Glen fan. Glen got worse each film after OP and ignoring the Tarzan yell and tennis sound effects OP is his best.

    I know where you're coming from. 80's are my favourite decade, but his films have a cheap made-for-tv look about them.

    The Living Daylights has some great cinematography.

    It does. Some of the early stuff in Austria looks very good.

    I like Glen but I can't help but think that he lacks a certain...dynamic flair maybe.

    You get the impression that it was "a job" rather than any real passion for the character. He was good with the action scenes as was shown during his work as editor but I do agree that sometimes his style felt a bit lightweight bar some exceptions.

    Up against the likes James Cameron and Renny Harlin (popular action directors in the early 90s) Glen would look like old hat.

    Yeah I think it's telling that he didn't have much of a directorial career outside of Bond.

    yeah I agree.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    One of the best casts in the series. Natalya is great. I just don't like her hairstyle /:)
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Yes, Craig lost brownie points with me as well after the faux suicidal ideations he made.

    Very much agreed. I was also rather confused by the lengths that some were willing to go to in order to defend Craig for those comments, while outright slamming Brosnan for having the slightest critique of SPECTRE while having nothing but praise for Craig's work in the film.

    The fact of the matter is that Craig is not the first actor to attempt a serious portrayal of Bond, yet it would seem that the media would like to crown him as such, or at least the first to attempt it since Sean Connery. While it would be nice if Dalton would get the credit that he clearly deserves, if for nothing else but attempting to bring the franchise back to something both closer to the novels as well as more in line with the tone of the original films as opposed to the camp of Diamonds are Forever onward, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Still, hopefully Craig's films have caused a few people to go back and give Dalton another look, and see that he was ahead of his time rather than the failure that many people perceive him to be.

    My opinion of Dalton has swayed back and forth ..thanks to a few here that have encouraged me to reevaluate Dalton I am back on board.

    I was a fan of Dalton during his tenure as Bond but I felt alone ...

    I have been critical of Dalton here but that's changing. I was too harsh...

    My gripe against the Dalton films still remains to be Glen. I really wish another director had helmed Dalton's outings.

    Sorry ...the acting in those two especially LTK just ruins what should have been classic outings.

    Sorry I had to vent.

    May be if we can convince you to reassess Dalton then we can also get you to reevaluate the criminally under appreciated John Glen as well. The man gave cinema some of the most iconic action sequences ever committed to celluloid and (IMO) five of the most consistently entertaining entries in the whole series. Even his less good films as Bond director have a lot going for them.

    His action sequences for LTK have been referenced and ripped off by so many other films and yet people make out that he's a director of no consequence.

    I appreciate that but I'm sorry I really am not a Glen fan.

    But yes I do agree that Glen did give us some iconic and often copied action sequences.

    And whomever mentioned the "chase bomb" sequence in OP is right. I love that part of the movie. OP is one of my favorites.

    Truly respect your opinion though.


    So OP is one of your favourites but you don't rate Glen...?

    I'll try and work that one out later.

    OP is top ten material for me. Possibly Moore's best.

    Yup I like OP ...nope not a Glen fan. Glen got worse each film after OP and ignoring the Tarzan yell and tennis sound effects OP is his best.

    I know where you're coming from. 80's are my favourite decade, but his films have a cheap made-for-tv look about them.

    The Living Daylights has some great cinematography.

    It does. Some of the early stuff in Austria looks very good.

    I like Glen but I can't help but think that he lacks a certain...dynamic flair maybe.

    You get the impression that it was "a job" rather than any real passion for the character. He was good with the action scenes as was shown during his work as editor but I do agree that sometimes his style felt a bit lightweight bar some exceptions.

    Up against the likes James Cameron and Renny Harlin (popular action directors in the early 90s) Glen would look like old hat.

    Yes that sounds right.

  • Posts: 11,425
    And yet for me those Glen films are amongst the most enjoyable in the series.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,252
    Yes I agree. Inconsistent tone and yes they do a lot of things wrong, but they also do lots right, perfect even
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The 80's Bond films were very stripped down in comparison to the somewhat overblown efforts of the late 60's and 70's (with some exceptions like OHMSS). They just were very much of their time, and so have dated faster than the more 'classic era' 60's films.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Yeah no OTT villains in the 80s, with Christopher Walken being the closest to that kind of villain.
  • Posts: 11,425
    The 80s films are awesome.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    The 80's Bond films were very stripped down in comparison to the somewhat overblown efforts of the late 60's and 70's (with some exceptions like OHMSS). They just were very much of their time, and so have dated faster than the more 'classic era' 60's films.

    Indeed. Also, I think a lot of the humour in those films seems very dated now.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The 80's Bond films were very stripped down in comparison to the somewhat overblown efforts of the late 60's and 70's (with some exceptions like OHMSS). They just were very much of their time, and so have dated faster than the more 'classic era' 60's films.

    Indeed. Also, I think a lot of the humour in those films seems very dated now.

    @BAIN123 if you think the Glen films look dated you should do a quick rewatch of the 95-02 films.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The 80's Bond films were very stripped down in comparison to the somewhat overblown efforts of the late 60's and 70's (with some exceptions like OHMSS). They just were very much of their time, and so have dated faster than the more 'classic era' 60's films.

    Indeed. Also, I think a lot of the humour in those films seems very dated now.

    @BAIN123 if you think the Glen films look dated you should do a quick rewatch of the 95-02 films.

    I'm not denying that those films have dated too.

    However, I still think that GoldenEye looks better today than LTK does with the exception of the tanker chase.

    LTK's main flaw visually is its cheap looking interior sets. GE was definitely a step up in that regard.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2016 Posts: 13,978
    GE certainly looks dated, it looked dated with two years of it's release. TND, and TWINE haven't really aged.

    Furthermore, I would argue that it is GE which looks so flat and dull, not LTK.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think the statue park scene has more atmospheric cinematography than anything in LTK. There's also the early scenes in Monte Carlo.

    Both though do look like tv movies compared to the likes of the 60s films, MR and CR
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    GE looks drab as it is, but it looks worse compared to the slick TND. And then there is the cravat. Really, in 1995? Along with his hair style in GE, Brosnan looks like he had just stepped out of 1965.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    People have been clamoring for that period piece Bond film so there you go. ;) Pierce's hair looked better than Tim's though.
  • Posts: 11,189
    why is his hair style such a big problem? Never really got that. I prefer it to his hair in TND which is TOO slick and keeps re-styling itself.

    Then again, like ive said before, GE is MY MOST WATCHED BOND FILM
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Murdock wrote: »
    People have been clamoring for that period piece Bond film so there you go. ;) Pierce's hair looked better than Tim's though.

    I think that's debateable. If you had said that Brosnans hair needs more upkeep, that I would agree with. There must have been so much Brylcream in his hair in GE, that it could have withstood a close range blast from Graves' Icarus satellite. ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I prefered Pierce's hair how it was in GE, didn't much like how it was as Bain said too slick in his other movies.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2016 Posts: 13,978
    I get the slick argument for TND (though I don't have a problem with it), but I don't see how his hair in TWINE called be called slick. In TWINE, his hair didn't have that wet look, like it did in TND.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It just felt off to me in TWINE not so much DAD.
  • Posts: 11,425
    The hair was the most interesting aspect of Brosnan's performance. At least it provided a bit of variety unlike his acting.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Unlike the overactive and often hammy Dalton. :P
  • Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote: »
    Unlike the overactive and often hammy Dalton. :P

    I think you mean his subtle and nuanced reinterpretation of the literary and filmic Bond.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).
  • Posts: 16,169
    I get the slick argument for TND (though I don't have a problem with it), but I don't see how his hair in TWINE called be called slick. In TWINE, his hair didn't have that wet look, like it did in TND.
    In the TND film book that came out during it's release there was a section that described what gel and pomade products were used for PB in TND. I felt the length he had in DAD was probably the best compromise between his longer GE look and the businessman like TWINE do.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).

    You're right. He should have done more pain face.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).

    You're right. He should have done more pain face.

    He does do a painface sometimes like when he's attacked by the jailer and Necros and again on the conveyor belt in LTK. He even did the same face in Flash Gordon at one point.

    He was always acting.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    delete
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