Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Shame it can't go away.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 12,837
    I think if they marketed it right then GE probably would have been a success with Dalton. It could have been his TSWLM. A big crowd pleaser to get the public back on side.

    I don't think it would have been as successful though. With all the re-evaluation of the Brosnan era that's gone on since Craig, and the lack of big films he's done post Bond, it's easy to forget just how popular he actually was at the time. GE was a big hit and I can remember people raving about Brosnan. He's got a proper Hollywood movie star quality about him, something really larger than life, and I think that really resonated with people. There's a video somewhere of them filming TWINE in Spain and there's a huge crowd of people going mental, Robert Carlyle can't believe it and compares it to Beatlemania. People loved him.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Shame it can't go away.

    It has been discussed to death in every way. But every time it fades back seven or eight pages, some genius bumps it up again. It should be titled Frankenstein.

    Maybe we can dump it in a coffin of snakes. That aught to kill it. :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I believe the same can be said of many topics and many threads in this forum. It's the nature of a fansite. Additionally, I don't see how the age of a thread is relevant in any way, shape or form.

    I can appreciate how this topic grates some, but nobody really is asking anyone to participate on this (or any) thread which they find unsavoury.
  • Posts: 1,970
    Just end it now. Brosnan was in Goldeneye. He made it a success, not Dalton. Brosnan saved the franchise/brought it back from a 6 year death. Time to move on.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    Just end it now. Brosnan was in Goldeneye. He made it a success, not Dalton. Brosnan saved the franchise/brought it back from a 6 year death. Time to move on.

    Precisely. No use beating a dead horse. Or digging up a dead thread just to take another jab at Brosnan.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I believe the same can be said of many topics and many threads in this forum. It's the nature of a fansite. Additionally, I don't see how the age of a thread is relevant in any way, shape or form.

    I can appreciate how this topic grates some, but nobody really is asking anyone to participate on this (or any) thread which they find unsavoury.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I believe the same can be said of many topics and many threads in this forum. It's the nature of a fansite. Additionally, I don't see how the age of a thread is relevant in any way, shape or form.

    I can appreciate how this topic grates some, but nobody really is asking anyone to participate on this (or any) thread which they find unsavoury.

    Of course, to all of that, but to have a thread dedicated to such a specific topic (and specific to a long gone scenario) continue to thrive for so many years (it's not any type of list, or catchall, or adaptive thread) is pretty rare, if not unique, on here. I can't speak for other fan sites, as my experience outside of the MI6 Community is quite limited.
    That's certainly true.

    I've always found the thread well intentioned though, and just speaking for myself, it's been interesting to read folk's opinion on this, even if a lot of it is retreading.

    Ultimately I believe the Dalton/Brosnan discussion is one that will never end, and to a degree I feel the same applies to the Brosnan/Craig discussion. Part of that may be because of the somewhat unusual way that Dalton began and ended his Bond career, and the equally unusual way that Brosnan ended his in favour of Craig. Both were arguably 'cut short'. Having said that, I'm almost certain if there was such a thing as a Bond internet forum in the old days then the Connery/Moore conversation (who is better) would have continued throughout Moore's tenure as well.
  • Posts: 16,154
    I love this thread. The what if's in Bond universe fascinate me to no end.

    Personally I would have preferred Tim to come back for GE, but not just for the one film.
  • Posts: 12,466
    DAF was much closer to the Moore era than Connery’s in its silly tone.
  • Posts: 16,154
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's just odd that we don't do this with any other transition; at least not to this degree. Even the more discussed changes; Sean/George/Sean/Roger. You'd think we'd have one thread to encompass all of the possibilities.

    I wonder if a Would Diamonds Are Forever have been a success with John Gavin thread go on for six years?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The other transitions were more orderly though. I think it's the somewhat truncated nature of Dalton's tenure that causes this discussion to endure. I'm surprised that there isn't one for CR with Brosnan to be honest.

    If Craig had jumped ship after SP I'm pretty sure someone (I can take guesses on potential creators) would have started one for whether he would have been a success in B25.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 4
  • Posts: 2,917
    bondjames wrote: »
    The other transitions were more orderly though. I think it's the somewhat truncated nature of Dalton's tenure that causes this discussion to endure.

    Exactly. And though Lazenby's tenure was also truncated, Dalton had established himself as more than a one-off Bond, and the prospect of him starring in GE was a nearer thing than Lazenby's return. He also had (and has) a larger fan-base than George. Since Connery, Moore, Brosnan, and Craig all made at least four Bond films each, so it's tempting to imagine what would have happened if Dalton had made more than two.

    Furthermore, since the question posed by this thread is unanswerable, there is no reason why it shouldn't be speculated on for an indefinite amount of time, especially by anyone who didn't catch the discussion when it first debuted. And if some Brosnan fans are uncomfortable with this thread, no one's forcing them to read it.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 2,917
    This week I've been reading lots of articles debating whether Bobby Kennedy would have won the Democratic presidential nomination if he hadn't been killed. There's no way to know for absolutely sure, so the question will likely be debated as long as people remember RFK. The same goes for questions like "would JFK have pulled out of Vietnam?"
    Unanswerable questions that plausibly involve counterfactual history are often irresistible and can be discussed for as long as we discuss factual history.
    Of course the question involving Dalton is several million times less important than examples involving the Kennedys, but to Bond fans it remains a topic of interest and will likely be discussed as long as Dalton has his fans.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Revelator wrote: »
    This week I've been reading lots of articles debating whether Bobby Kennedy would have won the Democratic presidential nomination if he hadn't been killed. There's no way to know for absolutely sure, so the question will likely be debated as long as people remember RFK. The same goes for questions like "would JFK have pulled out of Vietnam?"
    Unanswerable questions that plausibly involve counterfactual history are often irresistible and can be discussed for as long as we discuss factual history.
    Of course the question involving Dalton is several million times less important than examples involving the Kennedys, but to Bond fans it remains a topic of interest and will likely be discussed as long as Dalton has his fans.

    So the thread will go on for .... ever?!?!?
  • Posts: 1,680
    At the time, All of Brosnans films except TND were highest grossing box office record breakers. Brosnan was not the failure many on here make him out to be. brosnan may not have top acting chops like craig but he was more like able & enjoyable to watch in goldeneye than dalton imo. Brosnans chemistry with The characters in GE , especially Natalya & 006 are some of the best in the series imo.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Fair enough. I'd still say Dalton and Kara in TLD is some of the most believable chemistry in the whole series. And Tim and Mrs Gere's rapore in LTK has grown on me over the years as well. Used to have no time for Pam but now rather like her.
  • Posts: 2,917
    Getafix wrote: »
    So the thread will go on for....ever?!?!?

    I doubt Bond will be around until the end of time, but as long as there are Dalton fans (or offended Brosnan fans) this thread might see further action. Just because older members of this board have debated the question doesn't mean newer members won't discuss it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I thought we were in the end times. feels like it sometimes.

    the old threads are the best any way.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 1,165
    Had to edit this comment as I mis-read something.
    Apologies. Moving on...
  • Posts: 11,425
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't think anyone in here has ever tried to argue that the Brosnan films were not financial successful. They were very popular at the time. The luster hasn't lasted for many. I'm kind of the opposite. Despite being surprisingly impressed with his performance in GE, I never really cared for that Era when it was happening. I had moved past Bond, because I thought that the character that I knew was gone. It is only over these past few years, probably as a counterbalance to the Craig years, I've come to find a lot to enjoy in films that I used to trash (TND and DAD), and have come to regard the one that I thought was pretty good, GE, as a classic.

    TND and DAD are more watchable than GE and TWINE but still really bad
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix is the king of firm pronouncements.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 11,425
    who wants to hear half hearted pronouncements?
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 11,189
    True but you seem to make nothing but full-on provocative pronouncements.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 11,425
    sometimes I sort of vaguely dislike GE and TWINE, but then at other times (when I am less confused) I strongly feel they're not really very good.


    is that better?
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    sometimes I sort of vaguely dislike GE and TWINE, but then at other times (when I am less confused) I strongly feel they're not really very good.

    is that better?

    Hmm. Yes it is.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 11,425
    well tough! cos I ain't into making those kind of wishy washy comments.

    at times like this I think what would Dalton's Bond do and he wouldn't go easy on TWINE that's for sure. he'd burn it to death with his best friend's lighter

    TWINE is the Sanchez of Bond movies and deserved no mercy
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    qcH1M2b.gif
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288

    But while it’s easy to scorn all the whizzbang in the cold light of Craig, remember that Craig only exists due to Brosnan.

    You could easily swap in Dalton and Moore there too.

    And that scares me about Bond 26. Serious Bonds seem to be followed by frivolous ones.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 4
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