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TMND - decent Bond film

identigraphidentigraph
edited May 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,052
Having noticed that TMND was on ITV2 Monday night, I duly decided to watch it, having not seen it for awhile.

I think it is the best of the Brosnan Bond films and also features his best performance in the role. It seems he was allowed to just play James Bond in this one before they started to mess around with the character in his next two films.

The final scenes are action overload but there are good scenes throughout and the two Bond girls work niceley with Brosnan and M features just enough unlike future entries. Brosnan seems to be in the best shape he ever was for this one and genuinley looks the part.

I think this a definitley an underrated entry and actually in my mind could be considered the last solid straight forward Bond film.
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Comments

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    identigraph wrote:
    Having noticed that TMND was on ITV2 Monday night

    To Morrow Never Dies? :P

    It's a fine movie, but I'll always think it should have been Brosnan's first
    Everything you said was accurate though- a fine movie with great Bond moments; just got a bit too 'Rambo' at the end
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 15,718
    IMO TND is quite a good Bond film :) Brosnan is really cool and smug (BAIN123 ©), especially in the hotel scene drinking the vodka.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, I love TND. I like Pierce and Yeoh as a team, too.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    My favourite of Brosnan's Bondage. Great action and Michelle Yeoh. Thankfully they have put back the few small cuts made to get the film a 12 and the DVD is now 15.
  • Commander_SkyfallCommander_Skyfall
    Posts: 371
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    IMO TND is quite a good Bond film :) Brosnan is really cool and smug (BAIN123 ©), especially in the hotel scene drinking the vodka.

    I agree totally, 007 knows Carver will send someone after him, so he prepares by drinking half a bottle of Vodka... Neat...

    Only Bond...

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Commander_Skyfall wrote:
    I agree totally, 007 knows Carver will send someone after him, so he prepares by drinking half a bottle of Vodka... Neat...

    I saw this picture for 'Mad Men' once and thought I should make one for Bond! What do you think??

    bond1.jpg
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Commander_Skyfall wrote:
    I agree totally, 007 knows Carver will send someone after him, so he prepares by drinking half a bottle of Vodka... Neat...

    I saw this picture for 'Mad Men' once and thought I should make one for Bond! What do you think??

    bond1.jpg


    excellent
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    My favourite of Brosnan's Bondage. Great action and Michelle Yeoh. Thankfully they have put back the few small cuts made to get the film a 12 and the DVD is now 15.

    I'd also like to see all the scenes with Teri Hatcher that ended up on the cutting room floor, due to a few focus groups hating her character, put back in.

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Hmm interesting! I didn't know they filmed much extra stuff with her. How true; as it is in the finished film, it really makes you wonder what was so special about her, and how Bond loved her any different from another Bond girl. There's hints of it, but some deleted scenes would shed some light on the subject

    You know, I'm debating getting the upcoming Blu-Rays, since I already have the most recent DVD's and I've always been satisfied with them, but let me tell you: If each Blu Ray was a Directors Cut, I'd buy them without hesitation!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I have a real soft spot for Tomorrow Never Dies. It's one of the most enjoyable films to watch in the series, serious without being depressing, but fun without being silly. Good Brosnan performance, good Bond girl in Yeoh, great action. Inferior to Goldeneye but still solid, and the score is the best non-Barry score.
  • Commander_SkyfallCommander_Skyfall
    Posts: 371
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Commander_Skyfall wrote:
    I agree totally, 007 knows Carver will send someone after him, so he prepares by drinking half a bottle of Vodka... Neat...

    I saw this picture for 'Mad Men' once and thought I should make one for Bond! What do you think??

    bond1.jpg

    Quality, maybe he was actually expecting Teri Hatcher and felt the need for a stiff one first..

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    What really irks me about TND is that Wai Lin could have uncuffed herself from Bond making their escape easier alot sooner but instead uncuffed herself from Bond only after enduring a painstaking and uncomfortable escape.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited May 2012 Posts: 12,837
    TND is a good, fun Bond film. Brosnan is great, Yeoh kicks ass as usual, Carver is a bit crap but is at least memorable, and there's some great action.

    Also, I love the remote control car. One of the best gadgets in the series.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    bondsum wrote:
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    My favourite of Brosnan's Bondage. Great action and Michelle Yeoh. Thankfully they have put back the few small cuts made to get the film a 12 and the DVD is now 15.

    I'd also like to see all the scenes with Teri Hatcher that ended up on the cutting room floor, due to a few focus groups hating her character, put back in.

    I don't really believe they shot a lot with Hatcher that wasn't used. Per the original script, Paris was only in about 3 scenes which is about what she has in the final film. You can read it here:

    http://www.universalexports.net/scripts/tnd.shtml

    There is a longer scene involving Paris and Carver that appears on the UE extras but that's about all we know for sure about. I'm in the minority about this, but I prefer her to Wai Lin. It was refreshing to see a Brosnan-era Bond girl who was not trying to be a "female Bond".

    As for TND, it's certainly the least pretentious of the Brosnan-era Bond films. It's the most "tick-the-box" entry made post-AVTAK, but it goes thru the formula slickly and nicely. Brosnan's much more at ease in the role than in GE and the film just has a more confident feel to it. David Arnold provided his first and by far his best Bond score as well. Essentially, it's YOLT/TSWLM for ADHD viewers but it works and is probably the most successful at achieving its intentions of all the Bond films made between 1995 and 2002.

  • GrantGrant
    Posts: 140
    Saw most of it on Monday as well. Good enough though I did fear at one stage that Bond was going to indulge in some corpse loving!
  • licensetoforumlicensetoforum
    Posts: 371
    Grant wrote:
    Saw most of it on Monday as well. Good enough though I did fear at one stage that Bond was going to indulge in some corpse loving!
    haha from TND and TWINE Brosnan is defintely the Bond who loves corpses the most.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    identigraph wrote:
    Having noticed that TMND was on ITV2 Monday night, I duly decided to watch it, having not seen it for awhile.

    I think it is the best of the Brosnan Bond films and also features his best performance in the role. It seems he was allowed to just play James Bond in this one before they started to mess around with the character in his next two films.

    The final scenes are action overload but there are good scenes throughout and the two Bond girls work niceley with Brosnan and M features just enough unlike future entries. Brosnan seems to be in the best shape he ever was for this one and genuinley looks the part.

    I think this a definitley an underrated entry and actually in my mind could be considered the last solid straight forward Bond film.

    Completely and utterly agree. I have been saying this for years. I don't rate Brosnan overall but this is far and away his best film. There are some nice scenes, dialogue and the film often looks stylish. Michelle Yeoh is good and I think works well with Brosnan actually. Hatcher is awful and the character should have been played by Bellucci as originally proposed.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Just a decent Bond movie? I think it is Top 5 material all the way! It is an outstanding, magnificent, glorious, and exceptionally excellent Bond movie! For one, Pierce Brosnan is in it, so it's hard for it not to be an epic win. Aside from that crucial factor, it's got, as Elliot Carver might say, "deliciously" evil villains, a slam-bang soundtrack from Arnold, great uses of very scenic locations, and probably the strongest of these, its explosively entertaining action which never fails to hold my attention 100%. For me, it sists at #4 proudly in my top 5.
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    Given the current climate here in the uk, TND becomes more and more relevant. Would love to see Murdoch on a stealth boat! TND was way before its time a la LTK. Love it. :-)
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote:
    bondsum wrote:
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    My favourite of Brosnan's Bondage. Great action and Michelle Yeoh. Thankfully they have put back the few small cuts made to get the film a 12 and the DVD is now 15.

    I'd also like to see all the scenes with Teri Hatcher that ended up on the cutting room floor, due to a few focus groups hating her character, put back in.

    I don't really believe they shot a lot with Hatcher that wasn't used. Per the original script, Paris was only in about 3 scenes which is about what she has in the final film.

    I'm only going off reports what I read at the time of the TND's release... and HaphazardStuff's review only seemed to confirm this belief with his excellent THE BROSNAN AGE: PART 8.5.

    I must add that out of all the Brosnan Bond's this is the one I prefer the most. Sure, it has some shaky moments and unfulfilled plot points, but it's the closet Brosnan got to replicating the old-school Roger Moore Bonds. With a more polished script, a replacement for Teri Hatcher and the original Surrender title song in place of the detestable Crowe number, this might have become Pierce's best entry. Bit of a shame really. Though I must admit I didn't realise there was a Director's Cut of this movie, so I might have to track down a cheap copy somewhere to see if it flows any better.

    If you haven't checked out what HaphazardStuff has to say about TND it's worth a gander...

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TomorrowNeverDies.html
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2012 Posts: 11,189
    One of the problems I have with TND is, while Pierce does give a more confident performance, there's too much action in the film. The second half is entirely action-orientated. Even Pierce himself said he wasn't satisfied with the film. It feels like a film for teenagers - more so than its predecessor did.

    GE has its problems but there is a bit more of a balance between action and drama. Dies just sacrifices the latter for the former (although some of the action is quite fun).
  • TouchMyButtonsTouchMyButtons Banned
    Posts: 228
    tnd sucked big time. the whole movie was kiddy action and retarded stunts. the story was absolute thrash and the whole Wai Lin character was total politically correct garbage, my god this whole movie is just about as worse as any of Moore's or Connery's last few outings. Bruce Feirstien is a horrible writer, I can't believe they had that idiot write bloodstones story. the guy has no substance.
  • licensetoforumlicensetoforum
    Posts: 371
    TouchMyButtons wrote:
    tnd sucked big time. the whole movie was kiddy action and retarded stunts. the story was absolute thrash and the whole Wai Lin character was total politically correct garbage, my god this whole movie is just about as worse as any of Moore's or Connery's last few outings. Bruce Feirstien is a horrible writer, I can't believe they had that idiot write bloodstones story. the guy has no substance.
    I wouldn't go that far, but to me it wouldn't rank hirer then 12 or 13 in the Bond films. One thing that always made me roll my eyes was when Bond and Stamper are fighting and Stamper yells, "You killed Dr. Kauffmann." Him stating he was like a father figure was enough, we don't need a villian whining.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    All the Brosnan films feel to a certain extent like they are taking the audience for granted - cynical, lazy scripts, poor direction and a lacklustre leading man. But of the four, TND definitely stands out as the 'best'. As noted above, had Arnold's 'Surrender' been used and properly integrated into the score throughout, this would have gone down as one of the best post-Barry scores. Michelle Yeoh ranks with Sophie Morceau as one of Brosnan's better Bond girls - she actually has a decent on-screen rapport with Bros, and if not exactly creating sexual chemistry, they make a nice double act. I actually don't even mind the story that much. It's a bit daft but not criminally awful like the other Brosnan plots. And although not comparable to the classic villains of the series, Price is defimitely the most memorable of Brosnan's main adversaries. And yes, the Dr. Kaufman scene is realy not bad at all.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    All the Brosnan films feel to a certain extent like they are taking the audience for granted - cynical, lazy scripts, poor direction and a lacklustre leading man. But of the four, TND definitely stands out as the 'best'. As noted above, had Arnold's 'Surrender' been used and properly integrated into the score throughout, this would have gone down as one of the best post-Barry scores. Michelle Yeoh ranks with Sophie Morceau as one of Brosnan's better Bond girls - she actually has a decent on-screen rapport with Bros, and if not exactly creating sexual chemistry, they make a nice double act. I actually don't even mind the story that much. It's a bit daft but not criminally awful like the other Brosnan plots. And although not comparable to the classic villains of the series, Price is defimitely the most memorable of Brosnan's main adversaries. And yes, the Dr. Kaufman scene is realy not bad at all.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    bondsum wrote:
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote:
    bondsum wrote:
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    My favourite of Brosnan's Bondage. Great action and Michelle Yeoh. Thankfully they have put back the few small cuts made to get the film a 12 and the DVD is now 15.

    I'd also like to see all the scenes with Teri Hatcher that ended up on the cutting room floor, due to a few focus groups hating her character, put back in.

    I don't really believe they shot a lot with Hatcher that wasn't used. Per the original script, Paris was only in about 3 scenes which is about what she has in the final film.

    I'm only going off reports what I read at the time of the TND's release... and HaphazardStuff's review only seemed to confirm this belief with his excellent THE BROSNAN AGE: PART 8.5.

    Interesting to watch. However, I remember reading an article saying they had cut Hatcher's 15 minutes down to 3 so I checked out her screen time on the VHS after I bought it. She's in the finished film for about 13 minutes. They may very well have shaved some seconds off her footage but at the very most they would probably be just slightly longer versions of the scenes we've already seen like the one I mentioned that's in the UE extras.

    I agree with HaphazardStuff that the idea of a Bond girl as a past serious lover of Bond is a good one but they really didn't develop it well enough in the actual script. The idea of having brought back Natalya Feodorovna Simonova to be Mrs. Elliot Carver is intriguing but I wouldn't like the idea of sacrificing her character so she could be replaced by Wai Lin. I've read one fan say he wished the character would've been Sylvia Trench from DN and FRWL.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    One of the problems I have with TND is, while Pierce does give a more confident performance, there's too much action in the film. The second half is entirely action-orientated. Even Pierce himself said he wasn't satisfied with the film. It feels like a film for teenagers - more so than its predecessor did.

    It's James Bond for the ADHD crowd. But if the viewer accepts TND on those terms, it works.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I don't feel TND is particularly more action dependent than the other Brosnan films. However, I think the dialogue and 'dramatic' scenes are superior to anything else that Brosnan did, so even if there is more action, overall the film is of a higher standard.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Brosnan was quite good here. He wasn't given anything mega-difficult to do, but he was convincing, and that's what matters. TWINE gave him a bit more meat, and it worked in some areas (Any scenes with Elektra, Zukovsky or M) and it didn't in others (Chemistry with Richards was zero). So in that regard, TND is his most well rounded performance.

    The score is the best non-Barry score in my opinion, and you'd have to be deaf not to hear Surrender in the music. It's all over the score!
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Brosnan was quite good here. He wasn't given anything mega-difficult to do, but he was convincing, and that's what matters. TWINE gave him a bit more meat, and it worked in some areas (Any scenes with Elektra, Zukovsky or M) and it didn't in others (Chemistry with Richards was zero). So in that regard, TND is his most well rounded performance.

    The score is the best non-Barry score in my opinion, and you'd have to be deaf not to hear Surrender in the music. It's all over the score!

    My mistake - haven't actually watched it for some time. I guess what struck me in the cinema was hearing Surrender at the end and thinking why on earth hadn't they used it as the main title track. if you don't hear the track at the start, then the references during the film are obviously lost.

    Any way, my point stands (I think) for GE, TWINE, DAD and QoS.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited May 2012 Posts: 8,217
    @Getafix

    Yeah the usage of Crow's track has always annoyed me. It's not a terrible song, the melody is easy on the ears and the sleazy way she sings the song sort of works, but Surrender blows it away. And yes, I see your point on that, I have the complete score and listen to it quite religiously along with OHMSS and The Living Daylights, so I know it note for note at this stage!

    And yeah, I understand. I think the Brosnan era is more enjoyable if you're able to look past the minor flaws TWINE has, and, well, I won't even argue for DAD, because that was very bad. I can't see anything wrong with GE though, what do you not like about it?
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