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Comments
OK, fair enough, I see I can't convince you, so I'll have to agree to disagree. I still don't see how the land rover, Koskov's survival or even the cello chase matches the ridiculousness of things like a plane emerging from the backside of a horse, Vijay's tennis match, the boob zoom, the crocodile, or the clown. I don't malign the clown as much others but it could've been avoided.
Actually I don't think 'sit' or the snake charmer theme are cringeworthy at all, in fact I was shocked to hear that people hated them, I thought they were very clever jokes.
Grant's death was great, I wasn't claiming otherwise. Stromberg's death I realise I am alone on, so I won't try to convince anyone, it's just that the lack of score in that sequence and the general lack of tension, as well as the mundanity of his death (a gunshot? Really?) makes me think of it quite lowly. What you say about Stromberg feeling pain is true, but I don't feel it as much as you do. The film also doesn't end quick enough after his death.
But TWINE's is the worst. Not Elektra's, hers fit very well, and Bond's confrontation with Elektra is probably the second-best thing about TWINE. But Renard's death is a complete anticlimax given how much set-up there is about the bullet that will eventually kill him.
I don't hate them, but they're not much better than much of the stuff that OP is maligned for. I don't mind the snake charmer theme as much either, although from my last watch of OP Roger had a hint of genuine fear in his voice when he said "sit!". Not the worst thing, but perhaps a bit uncomfortable. The clown I don't mind as much because it goes two ways - the scenario is outrageous, but it's also desperate and somewhat reminiscent of some of the older Hitchcockian scenarios where nobody believes you because you're in a ridiculous position (ie. dressed as a clown). As stupid as it is visually, the scene is still very tense.
You mentioned FRWL, which could only have been Grant or Klebb.
True, Bond fighting the henchman after the villain dies is a bit strange, and it's one of the quirks of TSWLM. It's a bit strangely paced at the end. Stromberg's death wasn't as dramatic as some of the others, I agree, but it was cold enough. Far more satisfactory than Whitaker's death or Koskov's fate.
There's nothing mundane about a gunshot or other less dramatic means if it's executed well - we have LeChiffre dying by gunshot, Silva by knife, Grant by being strangled, Elektra being shot, Scaramanga being shot, etc. Stromberg's death is one of the more dramatic ones by gunshot.
True, the final fight isn't exactly what I hoped for (the writing in TWINE just feels more rushed and almost improvised in general). But I didn't hate the nuclear rod through the chest.
I don't even hate the clown, I just hate what it did the franchise... It's become a scapegoat used to hate OP... and usually used as a metaphor for what the series had become at that point, even though it is well-conceived. So it should have been avoided.
When I mentioned FRWL I meant Klebb, I did think that was obvious... I don't understand how no one seems to realise how flat and disappointing her death is...
No, you are right, it is not the gunshot that makes things anticlimactic. Fair enough. But in all the examples you mentioned, there is a suitable sense of 'drama' in them. They all happen suddenly and hence they surprise. There is no surprise in Stromberg's death. I would not agree that it is dramatic, but I do see how some people could get that it is. And yes by the time Bond faces Jaws again in another really clunky fight I tune out.
1. True, it's quite pitiful that everyone only focuses on one aspect to hate on a film. Even for rank #24, you need to be able to look at the contrast between the elements of the film or between that film and others, rather than adhere to a single moment that you despise. That's not how you rank or criticize movies, which is why I don't take any OP review seriously that disses it just for the clown, or AVTAK just for Moore's age, or DAD just for the surfing scene. Even if they are horrendous scenes that stick with you throughout the movie, you have to find more to talk about than just one element, because just one element never defines a whole movie.
2. It's not as good as a lot of the others, sure, but that might just be down to 60's cinematography. The idea was clearly to build up tension over whether Romanova was going to shoot Bond or Klebb. I do agree that it isn't the best death scene by a long shot, though.
3. That's somewhat true, but again, I prefer it over Whitaker's death. In TSWLM, it's not just another casual activation of a gadget to kill the villain (as happens in MR and TLD), it's Bond using his gun to coldly inflict maximal pain. I reckon that it'd be a stronger scene if we had greater, more tense interactions between Bond and Stromberg where they'd be a clearer reason for Bond being so cold. As it stands, it seems like Bond killed Stromberg coldly because of the implications of what the latter did when he took Amasova away.
1. I agree.
2. I suppose so, though I can't for the life of me imagine Romanova even considering shooting Bond.
3. But at least in MR there was a sense of surprise in the villain's death because it is sudden and unexpected. In both TLD (I agree) and TSWLM you see it coming a mile away and there is no surprise. You are right about inflicting maximum pain, but that's not really my problem I think. It's simply that a villain's death should be quick, sharp and sudden. Stromberg is shot, then he is shot again, then again, and then a fourth time. His death is prolonged way out of proportion. Just get it over with! In that vein, Trevelyan's death is one of the few annoyances I have about GE (the fall definitely should have killed him, the cradle toppling over him was over doing it).
Changed my mind, and now I agree with this.
Interesting. I think OP has the better plot by far and TLD the better cast by far.
I like the cello scene. It's clever and the cello is nicely woven into their relationship. I do think the magic carpet ride was wisely deleted as going too far (and it might have been derivative of the cello case escape).
The strength of OP where is does better than TLD is the chemistry between the two leads, Moore and Adams are brilliant together in OP.
So not even close.
Still, OP is still a great Bond film, lots to enjoy in it!