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Come on, guys! TND isn't all THAT bad.

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Okay, seriously, it's NOT a stone cold classic. But it's IMO one of the simply most enjoyable rides Bond movies ever took me on. Kind of like YOLT with more heart, or TSWLM with more edge.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    I will ask a question here: is there anybody reading this who thinks TND is really awful? I mean THAT bad, like the OP said? Who/where are you, TND haters?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am here.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I am here.

    I don't like you...Britt Eckland fan :p

    Either way @Chrisisall I really think you're pushing it when you say TND is better than TSWLM or YOLT. Those two have a level of sophistication that Dies could only dream of. Can you really say that the sets or cinematography in TND are better or more impressive than TSWLM or YOLT?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    TND is joyful. Anyone who thinks otherwise takes themselves far too seriously IMO. Just roll with it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Either way @Chrisisall I really think you're pushing it when you say TND is better than TSWLM or YOLT.
    Whoah there bud, I didn't say it was 'better', just like them, but different.
    If I was trying to be objective, I'd say YOLT was best, TND was next & TSWLM right behind.
    :)>-
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I am here.

    I don't like you...Britt Eckland fan :p



    :)) But I am still here. And I know you really love me.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited April 2014 Posts: 13,355
    I'm not a fan of this film either. It had undone all the good work done with GoldenEye by the end of its runtime.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I am here.

    Well, that is one.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,837
    I don't see how TND is that bad at all. Yeah it doesn't do anything new and there's too much action but that doesn't make it bad. It's nothing special but it's a good bit of fun imo and when we have the likes of DAD, DAF, AVTAK, MR and TMWTGG I do wonder why people who put it at the very bottom rank it so low.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd certainly rank TND above DAD, DAF, TMWTGG and AVTAK but MR has a few stronger things going for it like the music and sets (very impressive). For me MR is currently #16 and TND is #17.

    As silly and dumb as MR is it does have more classic elements than TND overall.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    But my point is: it is not considered Brosnan's worst. Even to those who do not like him.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I don't think TND arouses very strong feelings. Brosnan fans tend to quite like it, and non-Brosnan fans tend to think it's one of his least bad films. It's relatively inoffesnive, I guess.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    TND is one of my fav Bond films, as I have stated pretty much everywhere. Very enjoyable, and it holds up well today. The only real downer is Teri. The rest is a fun, adventurous, and sparkling Bond film.

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Getafix wrote:
    I don't think TND arouses very strong feelings. Brosnan fans tend to quite like it, and non-Brosnan fans tend to think it's one of his least bad films. It's relatively inoffesnive, I guess.

    That is how I see the general perception of TND.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    In terms of 'too much action,' which film do you all feel has too much, TND or QoS?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote:
    But my point is: it is not considered Brosnan's worst. Even to those who do not like him.

    It is definitely not his worst if that was the question. DAD is just too strong for that to be the case. TND is slightly better in every respect.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Creasy47 wrote:
    In terms of 'too much action,' which film do you all feel has too much, TND or QoS?

    I'd say TND. QOS had too much action, but not as much. Both movies lacked quieter moments.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    But my point is: it is not considered Brosnan's worst. Even to those who do not like him.

    It is definitely not his worst if that was the question. DAD is just too strong for that to be the case. TND is slightly better in every respect.

    I think the OP is implying that it is generally panned on these forums. I don't think it is.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    ElegantCarver wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    TND is joyful.

    Nope. That's the issue. Brosnan is fat and miserable (look at him as he's watching the newspaper headlines in Hamburg airport).

    Hmm,interesting comment there,i actually think he looks his best in this film.

    @-)
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    ElegantCarver wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    TND is joyful.

    Nope. That's the issue. Brosnan is fat and miserable (look at him as he's watching the newspaper headlines in Hamburg airport). The whole film is gray and overcast and you can sense the unhappiness of the production pouring off the screen. The older Bonds were sunny and inviting.

    The main issue is the approach. TND falls into that style of movie that was popular in the late 90s, which is the ironic "Let's remake a kitschy 60s property, only cooler!" that Godzilla/Lost in Space/Brady Bunch Movie etc fall into. It even has a Moby remix on the soundtrack. It thinks it's so damn cool. So "above" its roots.

    And, like all this aforementioned movies, it falls short of the very thing it thinks itself above. Whereas GoldenEye was focused on just making a solid Bond movie, and as a result is a lot more honest and... well, better.

    Elegant Carver is a hopeless villain, too. Took my username from him because I happened to be watching TND at the time, but he's just a parody of a Bond villain. Same goes for Mr Stamper. And the less said about Hatcher, the better.

    One of the most misguided Bond films - at least until Quantum came along. Both radiate "Unhappy 2nd movie" to the viewer. Is it fair to say there's a "2nd movie curse" for each actor?


    Not for Connery!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    I did make a thread about a second movie curse, of course not counting the notable exception of Sean Connery's.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    edited April 2014 Posts: 1,052
    Ludovico wrote:
    I did make a thread about a second movie curse, of course not counting the notable exception of Sean Connery's.

    Well I like FRWL, TMWTGG, LTK and TND, so for me QOS is the only poor second film.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Regardless of personal preferences, the second movie is often seen, at least when released, as weaker than the first. With the notable exception of FRWL.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    TND sits happily alongside FRWL as a Bond actors second outing being a noticeable improvement on the first.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited April 2014 Posts: 15,127
    TND does not nearly share the same level of praise than FRWL. Or GE.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote:
    TND does not nearly share the same level of praise than FRWL. Or GE.

    Haha, yes . That most certainly is a very personal preference.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Ludovico wrote:
    TND does not nearly share the same level of praise than FRWL. Or GE.

    I realise that.Im just saying in my opinion, TND is a worthy second Bond film from this particular actor that improves on his first.

  • GetafixGetafix
    edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    AstonLotus wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    TND does not nearly share the same level of praise than FRWL. Or GE.

    I realise that.Im just saying in my opinion, TND is a worthy second Bond film from this particular actor that improves on his first.

    I think Connery, Brosnan and Craig's second films were all better than their first. Just a personal preference. Only Connery managed to top his second with an even better third, IMO. Moore's third is a classic, but his first two were well below par - find it hard to choose between LALD and TMWTGG. Not sure which one is worst. Probably GG.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I just watched TND over a couple of days. Rarely can I watch a Bond movie in one sitting. Not through choice, but because of time constraints. Anyway back to the subject at hand.
    I really liked TND when it came out in theatres in 1997, I felt it was a much better film than GE, and that Brosnan is much more confident in the role. The action sequences are fantastic, and although the action is almost non-stop, it never really bothers me here. I think the story is so weak, that quick bang action hides this.
    A question that struck me, and it's probably been asked before, but Bond uses the GPS decoder with the help of Dr.Greenwalt to locate the actual location of the HMS Devonshire. How does Wai Lin find it?
    On the whole TND is an enjoyable romp. If you can bypass the story and go along for the ride it's okay. The action is well staged, Jonathan Pryce is a good hammy villain and Pierce gives a decent second performance.
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