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One of my all-time favourite comics! Killing Joke is fabulous.
Certainly is, evokes alot of emotion. I agree with Grant Morrisons interpretation of the end. Not too dissimilar to Agatha Christies last chronological Poirot story, Curtain.
What do you mean possibly? I can't think of a better Joker story out there.
Agree the title is a big hint and the circumstances certainly justify that interpretation in context.
@Agent007 yeah mate it is the best. Possibly was indeed the wrong term to use. Its awesome!
Well the "Killing Joke" is the one Joker shares about the two men in the lunatic asylum on the roofs, but I can see how Morrison thinks it means the other thing. I spoke about this book today with my buddy and we both don't think Batman is killing the Joker. For starters, Batman is holding Joker by the shoulders, not neck, so I don't get the killing theory at all. Add to that Gordon's insistence to Batman that Joker should be taken in by the book and it loses even more weight. Moore's script for the final page gives even more credence to Batman and Joker simply laughing at the absurdity of their situation rather than the former killing the latter.
http://37.media.tumblr.com/3cb90c06df6268731a9e2193fb5896e8/tumblr_mrn6zlsqpS1qh7juco1_1280.jpg
However, the real majesty of the book is just how interpretive the ending can be for avid fans and casual readers alike, whichever side you choose to take. It's a great example that displays one of the classic tenets of art where the work of the artist is put in front of an audience and they may freely interpret different things about the piece of work that the creators themselves may not have even intended to display in the first place. That's what makes comics cool. They're both a text and visual driven medium, and either side of the artistic spectrum can offer up things to interpret, whether it's a writer making a character speaking a line a certain way or the way an artist chooses to frame a scene.
I've heard the theory that Batman is actually killing the Joker but we're seeing it from his eyes. Personally I'm not so sure- I think Joker is simply imagining Batman's laughter- and perhaps imagines it from all his victims. He's crazy after all
It's a good bet Batman isn't actually laughing though ;)
@Master_Dahark, I'm on the side that thinks Batman isn't killing Joker, first and foremost. I interpret the final 3 panels as being a visual representation of the "Killing Joke" Joker is reminded of at the end:
I think that joke has symbolic importance at the end because the lights of the cop cars are basically acting as a visual representation of the light being shined between the two dark halves of the ground, which represent the two rooftops in the joke. Batman and Joker are symbolically on two separate rooftops, polar opposites in their quests, and the light going out in the last panel is again symbolic of the fact that Batman and Joker will never cross that gap together and get on the same terms. Joker will always cause chaos and Batman will always strive to make order of that chaos, a never-ending circle that may lead to one killing the other or them dying together.
My buddy interpreted Batman's laughing as his simple human reaction standing there to the absurdity of the situation the two are in. Both men know that they are on a fast track to an end with possibly severe consequences, yet they are too set in their ways to give in to the other. Batman will never join Joker in his madness, and Joker will never be "fixed" by Batman and come to the side of the do-gooders. They are both "mad" in their own ways as well with their own obsessions, Joker's being proving points about human kind in very sick and twisted ways and being an all around frightening figure in Gotham, whereas Batman is on an obsessive quest to stop the kind of crime that killed his parents from swallowing Gotham whole, where he is often conflicted with his own principles. They're both fixated on those goals and will always clash because they are crashing each others proverbial parties, so to speak. All they can do in that rare human moment while contemplating their inevitable ends in the future-tense is to laugh at the absurdity of it all.
I get that, but as you said, I'm not big on that ending because I don't think Batman would laugh in that situation. I mean, over the course of the book Joker showed him he wasn't willing to change, shot and paralyzed Barbara (possibly doing other sickening stuff to her as well), and made Gordon a further shell of a man by showing him naked pictures of his daughter afterwards all in the effort to prove his point that one bad day will ruin any man into going evil/mad, and at the end Batman thinks it's okay to laugh knowing all that has transpired? I don't buy it, and find it out of character. However, as my friend said, his reaction was sort of an unintentional human reaction as he thought of Joker's joke and how it equally related to their unique situation/relationship, and couldn't help but laugh. Interpreting it that way makes it easier to believe, for me at least. All this discussion makes me want to reread the book badly. I don't have a copy, but as I'll be visiting family near Pittsburgh soon I may have to swing into a comic shop and pick that and other Batman comics up while there. It's definitely a fascinating book with a very interesting ending, that's for sure.
Okay: why?
They are so politically incorrect they make me laugh these days from other reasons than when I was nine.
Talking about politically correct, here's a lovely example. Tintin! Tintin In The Congo was fist published in 1931.
It is now deemed too racist; several groups have protested against its current publications. Can't people put anything in perspective anymore? If we comply, they might as well start censoring Fleming for alleged racism, sexism, ...
Look, I'm fine with using "black person" instead of the N-word, until "black person" itself becomes offensive and we trade it in for something else until that term gets stigmatized and so on. But you can't erase history. A book from 1931 is part of our history.
Could anyone help me with which trade paperback I should use to get the ball rolling?
Bonus points for providing Amazon links ;)
Hmm, I'm trying to remember if we have any Green Lantern specialists on the forum. Most usually gravitate to Batman or Superman on the large.
I wish I was more familiar with the character so that I could point you in the right direction.
Someone said this. My day has been made.
Personally, I don't think they ever will get it right. The Green Lantern concept is one that's a little difficult to get across outside of the non-serialized medium, like many of DC's characters. They did what they could with it, but perhaps they should have actually had Sinestro as the villain instead of just hinting at that possibility for the sequel that, in my opinion, they knew wouldn't happen. I completely forgot Martin Campbell directed that movie, honestly.
I had forgotten how good this was.
From Dark Horse Comics comes Fire And Stone, a real treat for fans of Aliens, Predator and Prometheus. DHC has a rich tradition bringing popular science fiction movie series to the pages of a graphic novel or comic book series. The likes of Terminator, Aliens, Star Wars, ... have been actively published in comic book form by DHC. Many fans agree that Dark Horse usually provides quality material, expanding the familiar movie universes while staying pretty loyal to the original concepts.
Our beloved Aliens and Predators, for example, have featured in tons of DHC publications, with the famous AvP crossover actually originating on the pages of Dark Horse comics, some time before the video game industry got involved and many years before the Hollywood system sent it back to the stone age.
But the ultimate crossover may very well be Dark Horse's recent output of the Fire And Stone title. Fire And Stone basically tells one big story through four mini-series, each four comic issues long, under the subtitles
- Fire And Stone: Aliens
- Fire And Stone: Prometheus
- Fire And Stone: AvP
- Fire And Stone: Predator
and one concluding double-sized issue, Fire And Stone: Prometheus Omega. (This list also represents the suggested reading order.)
Nearly 400 pages of comic book fun for one big, intricate story involving various focus characters and of course our beloved creatures: the xenomorphs from the Alien franchise, the predators from the Predator franchise and an engineer from Prometheus. In fact, Fire And Stone is the first title that might legitimately claim to be a sequel to Prometheus. By the way, the titles do not necessarily mean that only the first issues feature aliens, the next four an engineer and so on. Familiar creatures come and go, which makes the whole experience so interesting IMO.
The story is set roughly a century and a half after Prometheus. Most of it takes place on LV-223, the moon on which Prometheus took place, with a few brief moments near Hadley's Hope on LV-426, the moon we sent marines to in the movie Aliens. Some nods are made to the movies, such as the derelict ship from Alien / Prometheus, Dr. Shaw from Prometheus and of course Hadley's Hope. Most of the story is, however, pretty standalone.
The latter may be a good thing since it's unclear at this point what may come of a Prometheus movie sequel, if anything at all. In order to avoid confusion and contradiction, the writers of Fire And Stone were wise to not get into the movie myths in too detailed a fashion. We of course recognise the creatures, some places and a few particular settings, but other than that, Fire And Stone is its own thing.
Can I recommend these comics? Absolutely, yes! The graphic design of the comics is great with some truly amazing panels featuring predators in action, scary alien queens, xenos in full attack mode... Though various artists have contributed to the whole thing, the drawings are generally of the same quality: dark, exciting, bloody and detailed. Whether you will like the story or not is of course hard to predict but fans of the Alien / Predator / Prometheus movie universe may find a lot to enjoy here. So if you can, why not grab these comics or the trade paperbacks that are currently being released, and see if McTiernan's, Scott's and Cameron's legacy can work for you in this other medium too?
Now, Victoria's Secret Service. Where do I begin? It's a total utter Danger Girl rip-off, a title that, regardless of its striking camp, I am a big fan of.
This comic book, Victoria's Secret Service (wow, what a brand!) sub-titled Nemesis Rising, deals with British young adult girls in their mid-20s, highly trained, running missions for a highly secret service organization that exists for two centuries and on (or should I say... that's probably the least we know of.), its operatives are always females (very breathtaking ones at that!), competent and resourceful. Like Danger Girl, they have a male missions handler, only this time, he's a young fellow, instead of the old, wise and veteran MI6 agent, Deuce of the 'Danger Girl Operations Limited'. During an operation, these girls are suddenly joined by an American former cat burglar brought in by their superior. They develop a very big distrust of the new operative, regardless of her skills, but they all interlace to fight a very big threat that oversees a plot to take over the United Kingdom's royalty and lead the Windsor family out. The girls of the VSS are to stop this worldwide catastrophe.
If you do enjoy campy, over-the-top spy comics with more than just beautiful girls, then this is indefinitely for you. The storyline wasn't that impressive, the dialogues being far worse, but heck, the images and the outlines of the women will make up for it. :D Not that there is anything erotic at all, just modern-day team of Emma Peel's, you know?