Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • Posts: 11,425
    nonut wrote:
    I strongly disgree with much written negatively about Pierce and Dalton. And to say Dalton was a loser off screen - come on; that's harsh and I think hardly seems accurate.

    You are right. I would never wrote that Brosnan is loser thorough i can't stand him. The guy was pretty succesfull and is still very good perceived between general public.

    Dalton is the loser. Brozza is one of the luckiest men alive.

    Luck of the Irish!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2012 Posts: 13,978
    Getafix wrote:
    nonut wrote:
    I strongly disgree with much written negatively about Pierce and Dalton. And to say Dalton was a loser off screen - come on; that's harsh and I think hardly seems accurate.

    You are right. I would never wrote that Brosnan is loser thorough i can't stand him. The guy was pretty succesfull and is still very good perceived between general public.

    Dalton is the loser. Brozza is one of the luckiest men alive.

    Luck of the Irish!

    I still don't understand this idea of Dalton is a looser. If he kept stealing things from your garden, then ok. But becuase of his career?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think he is bashing Dalton for his personal life, too. Which hardly seems reasonable. Unless he is Dalton's personal friend, which does not seem likely.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    nonut wrote:
    I strongly disgree with much written negatively about Pierce and Dalton. And to say Dalton was a loser off screen - come on; that's harsh and I think hardly seems accurate.

    You are right. I would never wrote that Brosnan is loser thorough i can't stand him. The guy was pretty succesfull and is still very good perceived between general public.

    Dalton is the loser. Brozza is one of the luckiest men alive.

    Luck of the Irish!

    I still don't understand this idea of Dalton is a looser. If he kept stealing things from your garden, then ok. But becuase of his career?

    It's very simple. He had a VERY strong theatrical and TV career before Bond. He had also done a couple of decent films. Then he became Bond - which should be one of the best breaks a 2nd tier star can ever get. But he did nothing with it. His career nose dived after Bond and he has really done nothing of any quality since.

    Look, I like the guy and he is one of my favourite Bonds, but his career since Bond has been utterly dire. Plus (wrongly IMO) he is widely seen as a failure as Bond - the one who supposedly almost killed the series and no one really liked. To my mind that makes him a loser - if he'd hung on for Goldeneye I think it could have cemented his status as one of the greats. As I understand it EON wanted to keep him but he walked away after waiting 6 years for another film. Why did he do that? What great glorious roles has he been given? Rhett Buttler in some dire TV mini series? Now he is seen by most people (apart from a few die hard fans) as a nobody.
  • Posts: 15
    I think he is bashing Dalton for his personal life, too. Which hardly seems reasonable. Unless he is Dalton's personal friend, which does not seem likely.

    Bashing Dalton for his personal life?! Dalton is one of the most modest and decent people in movie industry i know. He is just class act
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Imagine my shock when I opened my morning paper to find the headline:

    "Timothy Dalton stole my lawnmower, pitchfork, sprinkler and washing line. The man is a loser."

    I'm sure CCTV footage would make a great watch. Dalton leaping over fences like Springheeled Jack, stealing the afforementioned items before making good his escape.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Let's face it. Dalton's had a respectful career on stage and screen (to call him a loser is harsh) but he hasn't reached the levels of fame that Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig have. Those 4 men have each become household names in a large part due to a certain Mr Bond.

    I'm sure Dalton's happy being away from the limelight but, unlike Connery and Craig (also very private men) he hasn't had the "mass appeal". At the place where I work they were selling "Dragon Tattoo" today and I saw quite a lot of people buying it. Would as many buy the film if Dalton was on the cover? I'm not sure.
  • Dalton's Bond career died too young!

    I'm sure that marketing failures, bad timing and the legal troubles had FAR more to do with it than any perceived lack of 'charm'.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    he's
    Imagine my shock when I opened my morning paper to find the headline:

    "Timothy Dalton stole my lawnmower, pitchfork, sprinkler and washing line. The man is a loser."

    I'm sure CCTV footage would make a great watch. Dalton leaping over fences like Springheeled Jack, stealing the afforementioned items before making good his escape.

    =))
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Let's face it. Dalton's had a respectful career on stage and screen (to call him a loser is harsh) but he hasn't reached the levels of fame that Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig have. Those 4 men have each become household names in a large part due to a certain Mr Bond.

    I'm sure Dalton's happy being away from the limelight but, unlike Connery and Craig (also very private men) he hasn't had the "mass appeal". At the place where I work they were selling "Dragon Tattoo" today and I saw quite a lot of people buying it. Would as many buy the film if Dalton was on the cover? I'm not sure.

    Maybe he isn't as famous as the others, but I don't see in any way how he is a loser. He used to be James Bond, he still does some good films (Hot Fuzz, and he was one of the few good things about the tourist), he lives in Hollywood and chances are he has alot of money, I don't think any of us can call him a loser.
    Getafix wrote:
    Dalton is the loser.

    Did you used to play James Bond? Did you nail a hot russian model? Have you appeared in lots of films and made alot of money? No.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Dalton's Bond career died too young!

    I'm sure that marketing failures, bad timing and the legal troubles had FAR more to do with it than any perceived lack of 'charm'.

    I think you're right. If they'd banged out another movie after LTK (which almost certainly would have had a lighter tone), then he'd have cemented his place in the canon.
  • Posts: 15
    Dalton just didn't any luck. Moreover he is not person for showbusiness. He is too humble, quiet and introvert man. He never wanted to be star. He loves acting, but don't like any publicity.
  • The general reputation of LTK massively underestimates its great qualities, IMHO. The tone, the villans, the engrossing story, the balance of realism with scale and grandeur, romance and sadism, and the quality of the directing were all absolutely note-perfect for me. I also seem to remember reading that when they got the audience to fill in the survey to rate the film it had the highest satisfaction levels of any 007 film up to that point.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,425
    The general reputation of LTK massively underestimates its great qualities, IMHO. The tone, the villans, the engrossing story, the balance of realism with scale and grandeur, romance and sadism, and the quality of the directing were all absolutely note-perfect for me. I also seem to remember reading that when they got the audience to fill in the survey to rate the film it had the highest satisfaction levels of any 007 film up to that point.

    Not if you believe the Dalton- bashers on here.

    I personally found it a strange film the first time I saw it. The tone felt a little bit wrong and with hindsight I now see it as a warning sign that the series was about to seriously go off the rails. That said, there are still some good, genuinely Bondian sequences in it, and Dalton is excellent.
  • Posts: 12,837
    The general reputation of LTK massively underestimates its great qualities, IMHO. The tone, the villans, the engrossing story, the balance of realism with scale and grandeur, romance and sadism, and the quality of the directing were all absolutely note-perfect for me. I also seem to remember reading that when they got the audience to fill in the survey to rate the film it had the highest satisfaction levels of any 007 film up to that point.

    LTK is my favourite film of all time. It has the Bond formula but twists it up in an original way. Great film.
  • Posts: 11,189
    nonut wrote:
    Dalton just didn't any luck. Moreover he is not person for showbusiness. He is too humble, quiet and introvert man. He never wanted to be star. He loves acting, but don't like any publicity.

    Well if thats the case he shouldn't really have taken on a part like James Bond
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,425
    The general reputation of LTK massively underestimates its great qualities, IMHO. The tone, the villans, the engrossing story, the balance of realism with scale and grandeur, romance and sadism, and the quality of the directing were all absolutely note-perfect for me. I also seem to remember reading that when they got the audience to fill in the survey to rate the film it had the highest satisfaction levels of any 007 film up to that point.

    LTK is my favourite film of all time. It has the Bond formula but twists it up in an original way. Great film.

    I am gonna open myself up to attack from Bain by admitting that TLD was the first Bond film I saw in the cinema. I still love it even today. I think the baddies are a little weak, but overall, it's a cracking movie. The first half is best though, as is often the case!
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Why am I going to attack you? I like LTK. I used to consider it as one of the very best but on recent viewing alongside OHMSS it fell a bit short. It lacks style and some of it looks a bit "made-for-tv-ish" like the scenes in Felix's house.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 678
    Sam Mendes is talking about how Skyfall gives Bond a more emotional story arc than previous films, but I'm slightly nervous that they are going to achieve this through some corny contrivance that will take the story towards soap opera territory. But LTK, in my opinion, was the PERFECT example of creating a personal, emotional story arc for Bond. The way he got close to Sanchez and earned his trust - and the tension and danger in those scenes was spine-tingling - and then once he was revealed, the sense of betrayal in Sanchez, and then finally the fury of Bond's revenge, all great believable emotional stuff. Contrast that with, for example, Brosnan's gurning grimacing in his 'emotional' plots and the difference is saddening.

    (the only thing that lets LTK down a bit, in my view, is the PTS, which I always found a bit corny).
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Why am I going to attack you? I like LTK. I used to consider it as one of the very best but on recent viewing alongside OHMSS it fell a bit short. It lacks style and some of it looks a bit "made-for-tv-ish" like the scenes in Felix's house.

    I meant TLD.

    I said it because I've laid into your Brozza fandom because he was your 'first'.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Why am I going to attack you? I like LTK. I used to consider it as one of the very best but on recent viewing alongside OHMSS it fell a bit short. It lacks style and some of it looks a bit "made-for-tv-ish" like the scenes in Felix's house.

    I meant TLD.

    I said it because I've laid into your Brozza fandom because he was your 'first'.

    Nah TLD is a good movie. I'm not as crazy about it as you but its still a solid film.
  • Posts: 11,425
    TLD is a fine, fine movie. One of my top ten.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 678
    Another thing: Dalton is more of a mature and masculine Bond. Can't imagine him prancing around in those tight-blue swimming trunks! lol
  • Posts: 11,425
    Another thing: Dalton is more of a mature and masculine Bond. Can't imagine him prancing around in those tight-blue swimming trunks! lol

    Absolutely agree. Although to be fair to DC, I don't think he's trying to copy any one. He's doing it his own way and I think most people appreciate that.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 678
    Getafix wrote:
    Another thing: Dalton is more of a mature and masculine Bond. Can't imagine him prancing around in those tight-blue swimming trunks! lol

    Absolutely agree. Although to be fair to DC, I don't think he's trying to copy any one. He's doing it his own way and I think most people appreciate that.

    Yes I don't mean to bash DC as I think hes a great improvement over PB, and I thought DC was going to be great from the moment he was announced (after having seen 'Layer Cake', which was like his Bond audition in my view!!). It was sad that they obviously felt he needed to become ultra-muscular, like some kind of hyper-fit body-builder to counter all the criticisms that he was ugly/non-appealing to women (thats clearly what happened). Dalton's Bond feels like a real, intelligent, complex man. Craig's has his complexities but still feels a bit cartoonish at times. E.g. the moment in the building site chase in CR, when Bond picks himself up and shakes his face, its like something out of a road-runner cartoon! Can't imagine Dalton doing that.

    However, whilst the DC films have left behind the tongue-in-cheek irony of the PB era, theres still something a little 'off' about them which wasn't the case with LTK.

    I find it hard to articulate what it is exactly, but its something to do with a lingering lack of realism, despite their 'grittiness'.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    Another thing: Dalton is more of a mature and masculine Bond. Can't imagine him prancing around in those tight-blue swimming trunks! lol

    Absolutely agree. Although to be fair to DC, I don't think he's trying to copy any one. He's doing it his own way and I think most people appreciate that.

    Yes I don't mean to bash DC as I think hes a great improvement over PB, and I thought DC was going to be great from the moment he was announced (after having seen 'Layer Cake', which was like his Bond audition in my view!!).

    However, whilst the DC films have left behind the tongue-in-cheek irony of the PB era, theres still something a little 'off' about them which wasn't the case with LTK.

    I find it hard to articulate what it is exactly, but its something to do with a lingering lack of realism, despite their 'grittiness'.

    I think it's poor scripts, weak stories, the absence of John Barry and an inability to strike the proper balance of tension and humour. Amongst other things.

    I see the DC films as an improvement on the PB era and am just grateful for that.

    I guess with Roger it wasn't until TSWLM that they really got the ship back on an even keel, so here's hoping that with DC's number 3 they get it really right.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Personally I think CR was one of the best. The more I watch it the more I enjoy it. It's got the "gritty " action but still has that sense of "luxury" that Bond needs. It looks beautiful.

    Quantum's just very...meh in comparison (IMO of course). It doesn't have the same sense of tension or intrigue that CR had. It tries of course but doesn't quite hit the mark. Also, the action scenes were over-edited to shit. Funnily enough, in recent years, I've stuck on the PB films more than QoS.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Personally I think CR was one of the best. The more I watch it the more I enjoy it. It's got the "gritty " action but still has that sense of "luxury" that Bond needs. It looks beautiful.

    Quantum's just very...meh in comparison (IMO of course). It doesn't have the same sense of tension or intrigue that CR had. It tries of course but doesn't quite hit the mark. Also, the action scenes were over-edited to shit. Funnily enough, in recent years, I've stuck on the PB films more than QoS.

    CR certainly looked good and there are some good scenes, but for me it just isn't quite Bondian enough.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 678
    CR has luxury, but doesn't have any sense of scale, or artistic and slightly surreal style in its sets. At least QOS started to bring back some of that style which had been missing for so long.

    I suppose every film absorbs something of the era it was made in. In my estimation the mid-90s to mid-2000s were a slightly unoriginal, over-the-top, decadent time. There seemed to be nothing much new in music, film, design, etc, just re-plays of past ideas. The star wars prequels are also symptomatic of that time.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Personally I think CR was one of the best. The more I watch it the more I enjoy it. It's got the "gritty " action but still has that sense of "luxury" that Bond needs. It looks beautiful.

    Quantum's just very...meh in comparison (IMO of course). It doesn't have the same sense of tension or intrigue that CR had. It tries of course but doesn't quite hit the mark. Also, the action scenes were over-edited to shit. Funnily enough, in recent years, I've stuck on the PB films more than QoS.

    CR certainly looked good and there are some good scenes, but for me it just isn't quite Bondian enough.

    You see I would have agreed with you after my initial viewing BUT after seeing it multiple times it has a very "Bondian" quality.

    Bond in the Bahamas (reversing the car into the fence was something Sean Connery would have done).

    Playing cards, beating the villain at his own game

    Eating cavier and toast at the dinner table (also in the book)

    Bond in the tux

    Anyway lets not get too far off topic.
  • Just a quick question about Daniel Craig....would he suit other Bond films? what I mean is, I can't ever imagine him in a Moonraker-esque film...but could see him in FYEO, OP, TLD
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