Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • Posts: 11,425
    JamesCraig wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    They should have brought him in from AVTAK right up to Craig's arrival.

    I would have missed Pierce getting his shot though... and he wouldn't do them after he turned fifty anyway.

    Frankly, I think we would've been much better off. Dalton would never agree with TND & DAD, nor the stupid moments in TWINE (Bond caring for Elektra after she has been killed, the hacksaw, "I insist", the overly long opening boat chase)

    Hell, I'm even betting he'd never agree with Denise Richards either.

    Not much wrong with TND imo. Get a better actress to play Paris, use Surrender as the theme and tone down the action in the 2nd half and it'd be a top 10 film. Boat chase was aweome, imo the best PTS of the series.

    Anyway, it's not about if Dalton would agree or not. I doubt Brosnan agreed with most of that stuff, it's what he was given. The only actor to really get any creative control is Craig (Dalton got LTKs script 10 days before shooting started).

    TLD was definitely Brozza's best effort and IMO his best performance. Like you say, had the studio let them go with Monica Bellucci and they'd used Surrender it would have been a very decent entry.
  • oo7oo7
    Posts: 1,068
    Shame that Timbo feels the need to criticise Rog.
    I think rog admits to much of the same here.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    oo7 wrote:
    Shame that Timbo feels the need to criticise Rog.
    I think rog admits to much of the same here.
    Where did he do this?
  • A vote for Dalton as the darker of the two Bonds. He is the one I would pick out of a lineup for a typical agent.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Is that good or bad?
  • Craig, clearly. Daltons last movie definitely is at the bottom of the Bond list. Craigs first two films were excellent. Unfortunately Skyfall was nowhere near as good, with a weakly developed plot.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Craig, clearly. Daltons last movie definitely is at the bottom of the Bond list. Craigs first two films were excellent. Unfortunately Skyfall was nowhere near as good, with a weakly developed plot.

    That's strange, because I think Skyfall is truly Craig's best and not because of the so called third time charm. I think Sam Mendes truly gave a breath of fresh air as well as used Craig to his best potential. LTK is Dalton's best performance though his debut was superb and we saw a new angle of Bond.

    LTK is a proper film with a Bond seeking blood. It is Flemingesque and I welcome that. And I warmed to Skyfall the most out of Craig's three. Even more than CR.

    What Craig and Dalton have in common is both have acting pedigrees in different disciplines of the profession. They are so unique and believable in the role.

    I realised that being an excellent actor makes the difference and the Bond role benefits from escalated acting skill. Before Craig came along, we had an era where we were told that Bond suffers from having a well trained actor and is a one dimensional part.

    Well, I always thought Bond was three dimensional and loses impact when dimensions are removed replaced by superficialness.

    Skyfall now outclasses QOS by a wide margin in my book. It had incredible scope. Craig was super in QOS though and always gives a fine shot.

  • For me its Dalton, always been my favorite 007. Dalton just carries such a human quality as Bond, a quality no one else has given. Dan is great, dont get me wrong, but Dalton IS Bond.


    (In case anyone cares
    #1 Dalton
    #2 Connery
    #3 Craig
    #4 Moore
    #5 Lazenby
    #6 Brosnan )
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 173
    WaltherPPK wrote:
    For me its Dalton, always been my favorite 007. Dalton just carries such a human quality as Bond, a quality no one else has given. Dan is great, dont get me wrong, but Dalton IS Bond.


    (In case anyone cares
    #1 Dalton
    #2 Connery
    #3 Craig
    #4 Moore
    #5 Lazenby
    #6 Brosnan )

    I care.. and I love your ranking. (And I couldn't agree more with what you said)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Regan wrote:
    Dalton IS Bond.
    Just now finished watching LTK, AGAIN, and by God and the Lords of Kobol, Dalton was THE BEST!!!!
    Connery was great, Craig IS great, but, there can be only ONE.

    DALTON.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    chrisisall wrote:
    Regan wrote:
    Dalton IS Bond.
    Just now finished watching LTK, AGAIN, and by God and the Lords of Kobol, Dalton was THE BEST!!!!
    Connery was great, Craig IS great, but, there can be only ONE.

    DALTON.

    LTKs finale has to be the best of the series. He jumps from a plane to an oil tank truck, dodges gunfire, hijacks it, dodges an RPG and does a wheelie through fire then eventually burns a drug lord alive.

    And that, is one of many reasons why Dalton was the best, most badass Bond.
  • My ranking.
    1. Moore - the best, charming, always a witty remark
    2. Connery - charming, but not as funny as Moore
    3. Lazenby - excellent movie, good actor, but maybe not the right to play Bond.
    4. Craig - first two films were brilliant.
    5. Brosnan - first film very good.
    6. Dalton - first film was ok. His Bond was far too dark.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    My ranking.
    1. Moore - the best, charming, always a witty remark
    2. Connery - charming, but not as funny as Moore
    3. Lazenby - excellent movie, good actor, but maybe not the right to play Bond.
    4. Craig - first two films were brilliant.
    5. Brosnan - first film very good.
    6. Dalton - first film was ok. His Bond was far too dark.

    Dalton's Bond far too dark? Compared to Moore's Bond yes. But Bond is a conflicted character and Moore was playing himself.

    Your assessment of Connery as not being as funny says it all. Bond is not supposed to be pantomine. He is a killer and not someone you would want to invite for tea and biscuits.

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 803
    Daniel Craig by a country mile -- and that's coming from someone who really thinks highly of Timothy Dalton and what he did with the role.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Daniel Craig by a country mile -- and that's coming from someone who really thinks highly of Timothy Dalton and what he did with the role.

    I saw SF this weekend and think it is a fine piece of work and a sure sign that the franchise's good work has not been taken for granted.

    I have to say had a young Dalton been in this film with Mendes direction, he would have suited it perfectly.

    I love Craig's Bond but Dalton is so unique that the two cancel each other out. Apples and Oranges. But I respect your opinion, but just giving mine being a huge fan of both actors. Actors being the operative word.



  • acoppola wrote:
    I have to say had a young Dalton been in this film with Mendes direction, he would have suited it perfectly.

    Dalton himself didn't think like that; he turned down the role in his younger years because he thought he was too young for it.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    I have to say had a young Dalton been in this film with Mendes direction, he would have suited it perfectly.

    Dalton himself didn't think like that; he turned down the role in his younger years because he thought he was too young for it.

    I meant younger as in a 38 year old Dalton closer to the TLD age. He actually said he would have killed for the scripts Craig is getting and said he was not allowed to go that far by the producers.

    But both men, Dalton and Craig have carved out incredible niches in the franchise. I tip my hat to both of them and walking out of SF, I thought Dalton held his own in the context of his situation where the franchise's studio backers were making life difficult.

    Dalton was saddled with the baggage of the Moore era, whilst Craig had the clean slate necessary to rebuild Bond from scratch. Craig himself said he never would have taken on the role unless they were willing to allow him to completely start anew with the character.

  • acoppola wrote:
    I meant younger as in a 38 year old Dalton closer to the TLD age. He actually said he would have killed for the scripts Craig is getting and said he was not allowed to go that far by the producers.

    But both men, Dalton and Craig have carved out incredible niches in the franchise. I tip my hat to both of them and walking out of SF, I thought Dalton held his own in the context of his situation where the franchise's studio backers were making life difficult.

    Dalton was saddled with the baggage of the Moore era, whilst Craig had the clean slate necessary to rebuild Bond from scratch. Craig himself said he never would have taken on the role unless they were willing to allow him to completely start anew with the character.
    Well, again, not taking anything away from Dalton, who certainly had plenty to contend with during his tenure, I just think Craig epitomizes the qualities necessary to play Fleming's Bond. Of all the actors to ever interpret the character, Craig's is by far the most enjoyable to me. His take makes it very difficult in a lot of cases for me to go back and watch the previous films. I think it's a credit to Dalton that his is one of the few portrayals I can watch and still deeply enjoy.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 173
    I actually rewatched TLD last night (after having watched Dr. No earlier) and wow, just wow. I loved it already but I fell in love again. I adore Connery, especially in Dr. No, and Dr. No is one of my absolute faves, but Dalton was just so amazing in TLD... the plot just kept moving and moving and he was so physical and displayed so many ranges to his acting that I actually came out baffled at the notion that anyone could have ever thought he wasn't funny, charming and light as well as dark. It is such an enjoyable movie for someone who just wants a fix of pure Bondness and yet a heavy dose of realism too. I'm even a bigger fan of Dalton now if that is even possible.
  • Regan wrote:
    I actually rewatched TLD last night (after having watched Dr. No earlier) and wow, just wow. I loved it already but I fell in love again. I adore Connery, especially in Dr. No, and Dr. No is one of my absolute faves, but Dalton was just so amazing in TLD... the plot just kept moving and moving and he was so physical and displayed so many ranges to his acting that I actually came out baffled at the notion that anyone could have ever thought he wasn't funny, charming and light as well as dark. It is such an enjoyable movie for someone who just wants a fix of pure Bondness and yet a heavy dose of realism too. I'm even a bigger fan of Dalton now if that is even possible.

    I very much agree; that is a fantastic movie.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    I meant younger as in a 38 year old Dalton closer to the TLD age. He actually said he would have killed for the scripts Craig is getting and said he was not allowed to go that far by the producers.

    But both men, Dalton and Craig have carved out incredible niches in the franchise. I tip my hat to both of them and walking out of SF, I thought Dalton held his own in the context of his situation where the franchise's studio backers were making life difficult.

    Dalton was saddled with the baggage of the Moore era, whilst Craig had the clean slate necessary to rebuild Bond from scratch. Craig himself said he never would have taken on the role unless they were willing to allow him to completely start anew with the character.
    Well, again, not taking anything away from Dalton, who certainly had plenty to contend with during his tenure, I just think Craig epitomizes the qualities necessary to play Fleming's Bond. Of all the actors to ever interpret the character, Craig's is by far the most enjoyable to me. His take makes it very difficult in a lot of cases for me to go back and watch the previous films. I think it's a credit to Dalton that his is one of the few portrayals I can watch and still deeply enjoy.

    Craig is such a good actor who bravely head butted the stupidity of the franchise and knocked it to the floor like Dalton had done years earlier. They both played Bond with all his issues and the imperfections add weight to the character.

    I certainly am happier we have a true actor in the part now. And like you say, having seen SF, a Dalton film is one of the highlights of the old series. But SF made me re-evaluate even further the Moore era as well as aspects of the Brosnan era. Not for the better either.

    Some old Bond is coconut and the new Bond is eating rat. You can't go back once you get a taste and I took that from Silva's analogy of behaviour. Dalton is rat rather than coconut.

  • But Craig is the last rat standing. :)
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Regan wrote:
    I actually rewatched TLD last night (after having watched Dr. No earlier) and wow, just wow. I loved it already but I fell in love again. I adore Connery, especially in Dr. No, and Dr. No is one of my absolute faves, but Dalton was just so amazing in TLD... the plot just kept moving and moving and he was so physical and displayed so many ranges to his acting that I actually came out baffled at the notion that anyone could have ever thought he wasn't funny, charming and light as well as dark. It is such an enjoyable movie for someone who just wants a fix of pure Bondness and yet a heavy dose of realism too. I'm even a bigger fan of Dalton now if that is even possible.

    Yeah, me too @Regan I certainly did not picture Brosnan watching SF. But I did visualise Dalton and liked Craig even more for not selling the character out.

    Dr No is possibly my favourite Connery in terms of hardness and grit of personality.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2012 Posts: 1,243
    But Craig is the last rat standing. :)

    Nice one! But as Silva says, they go off after the other rats in the wild rather than each other.

    I would rather leave it as the last two rats left. But I would like to add a third rat, which is early Connery.
  • Posts: 6,601
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  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Germanlady wrote:
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    They look like family and so cute! The darker rat is very Daltonesque in his expression.:)

  • Posts: 11,189
    "I was out walking my rat and I seem to have lost my way"

    "Last rat standing"

    Those two lines, when said in the right context, sum up their attached films.
  • acoppola wrote:
    Your assessment of Connery as not being as funny says it all. Bond is not supposed to be pantomine. He is a killer and not someone you would want to invite for tea and biscuits.

    Bond is a genre of its own . It has nothing to do with reality. If you want to see a realistic spy movie, then Bond is not a good choice. It is the humour that is the genius with Bond and that is why JW Pepper and Jaws are the best supporting characters, not to forget the dialogues between Q (Desmond Llewelyn) and Bond (Qs sarchastic remarks about Bond as being reckless and immature. (IF 007 can be trusted to look after it...).
  • acoppola wrote:
    Your assessment of Connery as not being as funny says it all. Bond is not supposed to be pantomine. He is a killer and not someone you would want to invite for tea and biscuits.

    Bond is a genre of its own . It has nothing to do with reality. If you want to see a realistic spy movie, then Bond is not a good choice. It is the humour that is the genius with Bond and that is why JW Pepper and Jaws are the best supporting characters, not to forget the dialogues between Q (Desmond Llewelyn) and Bond (Qs sarchastic remarks about Bond as being reckless and immature. (IF 007 can be trusted to look after it...).

    This sounds more personal preference than factual basis.

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