Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    All of it owes a debt to Sherlock.
  • Posts: 1,552
    Which owes a debt to C. Auguste Dupin ;)
  • ml94ml94 Finland
    Posts: 88
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Which owes a debt to C. Auguste Dupin ;)
    Hi, JCRendle ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Which owes a debt to C. Auguste Dupin ;)
    Quite!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @Birdleson, They had precisely the same effect on me... :-?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    The Craig era took note of Bourne for the more gritty approach and the fight sequenceS, but IMO the comparison stops there. The 3 Craig films are much more classy, elegant, and larger than life than the Bourne films. I love both Bourne and Bond, the the comparisons between the films are pretty thin.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    @Birdleson, They had precisely the same effect on me... :-?

    And me!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    OOOooh, I remember the fight with the pen! And the girl was killed in the second.
    But that's really all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I think the Craig era has taken more than just the gritty approach and fight sequences from Bourne. Bourne showed EON, after years of trying, how to properly ground the Bond series again while still keeping it commercially successful. In that respect, EON owes Bourne a great debt.

    EON had been trying for years (FYEO, TLD, TWINE, LTK in particular) to inject some depth & vulnerability, with varying degrees of success. To a great extent, they were a victim of their own success, cliches and all. They did not know how far they could go without losing their US audience (LTK's relatively weak US box office probably scared them from properly trying again).

    If anything, Bourne showed them how much violence was palatable, how Bond could show vulnerability without appearing weak, and how to make everything more realistic, while still being commercially viable in the US particularly.

    EON took a lot of subtle cues from Bourne when executing CR/QoS in particular imo, which added to the credibility of the reboot, as follows:

    -Bond being surprised by his own violence - and the aftermath mirror check/clean up (CR/QoS)
    -Bond surprising/shocking the living crap out of his girl who can't understand how he can turn up the violence like that (Vesper in CR)
    -the Marie/Bourne hair washing scene in Bourne Identity is tender after a violent moment without being sappy. Similarly the Vesper/Bond shower scene
    -Bond trying to save his girl underwater
    -Bond spending a movie trying to find out who killed his girl (in QoS) and why - and then not killing offending party
    -Bond's female boss protecting him from the CIA (in QoS) who want him offed (Landy was not Bourne's boss like M but you get the idea) and other political higher ups who think he's off the rails
    -Damon noticeably beefed up for Bourne, adding credibility to his portrayal. Craig did the same for Bond

    On top of that we have the grittiness etc. of the action in those first two movies.

    So if anything EON learned from Bourne how to execute properly and in a commercially viable way what they themselves had been trying to do for years. They also took cues from Batman Begins on how to execute a reboot cohesively and in an interesting way.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Hmmm... good points, actually!
  • Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote: »
    @Birdleson, They had precisely the same effect on me... :-?

    And me!

    I remember I loved the third one coming out. With the other two I was entertained but not exactly buzzing.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Another great post, @bondjames! I agree...
  • Posts: 11,425
    afraid to say i think the Bourne trilogy is excellent. better than any of the recent Bond movies, if I'm honest. the fourth one is dire though - a poor knock off.

    My favourite is probably the first, but the Greengrass films are very good too.

    having said this, the trilogy is one extended narrative and Bond works very differently.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Im gonna vote for Timothy Dalton since his change was more subtle didnt feel that abrupt.

    From Brosnan to Craig i felt a huge shake up in tone and the portrayal pf the character
    Timothy Dalton is really not that different from his predecessors, just a little harder but easy to get used to and so were his films.

    Licence to kill was much more violent but still we had Q, some funny with him and James getting the girl at the end.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Hands down Craig.. Dalton too stiff misdirected and too "theatrical".

    Bourne too spastic in style and too anti-American.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Daniel Craig.
  • Not a hard choice. Timothy Dalton for sure!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    This is no contest.

    Timothy Dalton is the perfect Fleming Bond.
    Tough, serious, relentless but suave, humorous and fun to watch.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Timmy D
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    From Brosnan to Craig i felt a huge shake up in tone and the portrayal pf the character

    While I realize not everyone agrees, some of us are extremely thankful for this.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Daniel Craig but Dalton was and IS awesome!
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    From Brosnan to Craig i felt a huge shake up in tone and the portrayal pf the character

    While I realize not everyone agrees, some of us are extremely thankful for this.

    I can see that, but imagine if your first Bond film was die another day and then your next one is Casino Royale it is a huge change, more loving Die Another Day and keeps you with the thought that Bond is that way.

    Honestly for me the idea of Bond was: A sexy and charming agent who is great with ladies and always wins against the villians without sweating a second.
    A guy who always manages to escape thanks to being smart or lucky but not by real fighting.

    I thought Pierce was only following a great tradition and for me he was fantastic as that that.

    Going from DAD to Casino Royale would have been like going from Moonraker to Licence to Kill

  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,189
    @Szonana After I first saw CR the first thing I did was go back and watch GE (MY first Bond film). Don't get me wrong...I liked CR, but it felt very different to what I was used to.

    It was only after seeing it again that I realised that:

    a. It wasn't THAT different really
    b. It was one of the best films in the series
  • Posts: 11,425
    Except in DAD Brosnan gets taken prisoner by North Korea and just sits there for over a year getting tortured. I always found that odd. Wouldn't the 'stereotypical' Bond have escaped? Instead he just waits until he's traded in a prisoner swap. Not very traditionally Bond at all really.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    From Brosnan to Craig i felt a huge shake up in tone and the portrayal pf the character

    While I realize not everyone agrees, some of us are extremely thankful for this.

    I can see that, but imagine if your first Bond film was die another day and then your next one is Casino Royale it is a huge change, more loving Die Another Day and keeps you with the thought that Bond is that way.

    Honestly for me the idea of Bond was: A sexy and charming agent who is great with ladies and always wins against the villians without sweating a second.
    A guy who always manages to escape thanks to being smart or lucky but not by real fighting.

    I thought Pierce was only following a great tradition and for me he was fantastic as that that.

    Going from DAD to Casino Royale would have been like going from Moonraker to Licence to Kill

    Fair point. As you've correctly noted elsewhere, it could create an inbred bias towards that film and that characterization (perfectly understandable given it's the first one you saw).

    I agree, it was a dramatic change, and I can completely understand how it could be felt much more so by those who saw Pierce and his Bond films first, prior to all the classics from the 60s/70s.

    As I mentioned in the thread you started, I started out thinking Roger Moore was the best, but have now grown to prefer Sean Connery's more rugged portrayal (although Moore still surpasses him in some areas imho), so changes can happen with time.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @Szonana After I first saw CR the first thing I did was go back and watch GE (MY first Bond film). Don't get me wrong...I liked CR, but it felt very different to what I was used to.

    It was only after seeing it again that I realised that:

    a. It wasn't THAT different really
    b. It was one of the best films in the series

    I agreed it was a great film Casino Royale it's just was a huge shock to see James Bond so much more human from one film to another.

    I now like Craig and appreciate his take on this character but I still prefer the more traditional Bond portrayal

  • Posts: 11,425
    IMO Brosnan's portrayal is the least traditional of all - it is parody.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Moore's is at least half the time too.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Craig easily won this choice just with CR alone.

    There were times in which I liked Dalton's portrayal. In particular, the scene with Pushkin in the hotel room, as well as his first meeting with Sanchez in the casino office. Maybe if he would have been able to do a third or fourth film and cement a legacy then he could have been one of the best.
  • Posts: 1,548
    I'd love to see a non Bond film featuring Craig and Dalton, the best actors to have played 007 imo.
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