Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Craig's just fitter for the big screen.
  • I disagree that Dalton was 'bad' at humour, he just had less of it. He could pull it off when he needed to. Highlights include "I hope you don't snore, Q; why didn't you learn the violin?!; you're the first; and his classic - switch the bloody machine off!!!

    Comparatively, there is even less humour in Craig's era (SP excepting), and what is there is very hit-and-miss. A lot of the lines in SF and SP come off as forced. When Craig spouts out the line 'it's the circle of life'... Were we supposed to laugh at that? But his worst one from that movie is 'I always hated this place'. That line just sticks out as being very awkward. I'm not sure if it's just an awkward line or an awkward delivery or both. And many people do realise that some - in fact, quite a lot - of the humour in SP just doesn't work.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Craig all the way.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Having just watched LTK a few nights ago, I think Dalton was done a disservice. He could have projected better for the big screen but he didn't have the investment in production quality or script or cast that Craig has had. Craig has been very good, but he really has been helped in many ways by what EON brought to the table for him.

    Dalton could have been much more acceptable to audiences if he had the same quality service. The earlier parts of TLD are as good as it gets in a Bond film, including any of Craig's.

    Keep in mind that Craig is not a star outside of Bond either.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 11,189
    If you see Dalton in action on the big screen - alongside Connery and Moore - you realise HE has more of a small screen quality. It stuck out for me when I saw him on a big TV at the Barbican exhibition a few years ago. It's difficult to explain but it feels like he should be on television. I really don't think its surprising that a lot of his back catalogue has been in TV dramas and TV films.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @BAIN123, for me Connery and Moore are the only two who could hold a film together just by presence and sheer charisma alone. I get your point, but I see the same in Craig to be honest. I don't see him as movie star material either.

    He has just been better served by the Bond material he has been given and the producers and directors have understood (thanks primarily to the Dalton learning experience, but also Bourne etc.) how to combine gritty with suave in the character.

    I think I said it here before, but if Dalton were younger, given what they know now, they could do a much better job of making his Bond more palatable to audiences. A younger Dalton, as an example, would be an almost perfect replacement for Craig.
  • Dalton was a good Bond. He has my respect. I just think he was in two movies that firstly had not completely shed the comedy of the Moore era, and had a director that was not really right for the modern fight stuff. Really, few if any of Glen's fight sequences were memorable, or had a comedy element to undercut the scene.
  • Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    @BAIN123, for me Connery and Moore are the only two who could hold a film together just by presence and sheer charisma alone. I get your point, but I see the same in Craig to be honest. I don't see him as movie star material either.

    He has just been better served by the Bond material he has been given and the producers and directors have understood (thanks primarily to the Dalton learning experience, but also Bourne etc.) how to combine gritty with suave in the character.

    I think I said it here before, but if Dalton were younger, given what they know now, they could do a much better job of making his Bond more palatable to audiences. A younger Dalton, as an example, would be an almost perfect replacement for Craig.

    Good post @bondjames

    I agree that Craig isn't the star Connery or Moore were, but I think he translates to a movie camera more successfully than Dalton did and has a stronger presence. Take that train scene in CR for example. He just owns the screen.

    I also agree though about Dalton being somewhat let down by weaker production values and an unevenness in tone on occasions.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Take that train scene in CR for example. He just owns the screen.
    I agree, that train scene is probably one of the coolest and most memorable scenes ever to grace a James Bond film imho. A new classic scene to be remembered for the ages along with other great scenes like the parachute jump or Connery's original introduction. I knew it the first time I saw it...

    Craig deserves full credit for that scene, as well as several other notable moments throughout his first three films.
  • Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Take that train scene in CR for example. He just owns the screen.
    I agree, that train scene is probably one of the coolest and most memorable scenes ever to grace a James Bond film imho. A new classic scene to be remembered for the ages along with other great scenes like the parachute jump or Connery's original introduction. I knew it the first time I saw it...

    Craig deserves full credit for that scene, as well as several other notable moments throughout his first three films.

    I think for me, both that scene AND the torture scene later on were the decider on who was better between Dalton and Craig.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I will counter with two scenes from TLD. The first, when Bond interrogates Pushkin and the second being the sniping scene early on.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I will counter with two scenes from TLD. The first, when Bond interrogates Pushkin and the second being the sniping scene early on.
    Both classics.

    Also Bond confronting Lupe on the Wavecrest, although some may see that scene as a little 'hard'. "You'd better find yourself a new lover!"
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I will counter with two scenes from TLD. The first, when Bond interrogates Pushkin and the second being the sniping scene early on.

    Both very good scenes - but not quite as fun or compelling as the ones I mention ;)

    Craig's body language in the lighter scenes is far more convincing than Dalton's too IMO.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    bondjames wrote: »
    I will counter with two scenes from TLD. The first, when Bond interrogates Pushkin and the second being the sniping scene early on.
    Both classics.

    Also Bond confronting Lupe on the Wavecrest, although some may see that scene as a little 'hard'. "You'd better find yourself a new lover!"

    That whole section of the film, from Bond sneaking aboard the Wavekrest to his airborne escape, is my favourite part of LTK. But if I had to pick a scene focusing on the acting rather than action, I would pick that specific bit with Lupe or Bond meeting M at the Hemmingway House.
  • Posts: 11,189
    My personal favourite "acting " moment from Dalts in LTK is outside Felix's house. It's subtle and dignified.

    I think Dalton does overdo the dramatic expressions a little in LTK.
  • When Dalts seethes after the death of Saunders in TLD, he was being a great Bond. That and the Pushkin death scene when he shot the sh@t out of the spotlight.

    He was a good Bond, very worthy.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Dalton seemed to intellectually have the right idea, but he was awfully stagey. It's like I could always see him "acting". He "acted" tense" in M's office discussing Smiert Spionam. He "acted" romantic ("just let it happen"). He "acted" tough ("... more of a problem eliminator").

    I know and I respect what he wanted to do with the role, I just never felt he sold it. He didn't wear Bond like a second skin as Connery and Moore did (no matter what you think of their portrayals, they sold their vision of the character and it looked effortless on their parts).

    I also feel Dan Craig has that same touch: he wears Bond so well, he makes it look easy (whether he's been tortured in CR, or he's screaming at the "atmosphere" of his DB10). DC had me before the pre-title sequence of CR was finished.

    Respect for Dalton for taking chances, but, in the end, and for my tastes, he was too "big" in acting style, not relaxed enough and was far to "showy". He also came off as more angry than charming. What's so disappointing though, is that he was by far the most interesting looking of all the Bonds. Strikingly handsome, in an almost feline way; if he never opened his mouth to utter a single word, I could believe him as the paid assassin.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 11,189
    peter wrote: »
    Dalton seemed to intellectually have the right idea, but he was awfully stagey. It's like I could always see him "acting". He "acted" tense" in M's office discussing Smiert Spionam. He "acted" romantic ("just let it happen"). He "acted" tough ("... more of a problem eliminator").

    I know and I respect what he wanted to do with the role, I just never felt he sold it. He didn't wear Bond like a second skin as Connery and Moore did (no matter what you think of their portrayals, they sold their vision of the character and it looked effortless on their parts).

    I also feel Dan Craig has that same touch: he wears Bond so well, he makes it look easy (whether he's been tortured in CR, or he's screaming at the "atmosphere" of his DB10). DC had me before the pre-title sequence of CR was finished.

    Respect for Dalton for taking chances, but, in the end, and for my tastes, he was too "big" in acting style, not relaxed enough and was far to "showy". He also came off as more angry than charming. What's so disappointing though, is that he was by far the most interesting looking of all the Bonds. Strikingly handsome, in an almost feline way; if he never opened his mouth to utter a single word, I could believe him as the paid assassin.

    A good post and I share some of the same mixed feelings. I particularly liked your phrase "wear Bond".
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I haven't seen Spectre, so I can only imagine what screaming at the atmosphere of the DB10 means. I have seen a small clip of the car chase, and his "Oh no" in response to 'New York, New York' playing comes off as very half-hearted.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I didn't like that bit in the film if that makes you feel any better.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    My favourite scenes with Dalton where I thought he dominated the screen were (ironically) the PTS of TLD (up to the dialogue on the boat) and the climatic tanker chase in LTK.
    In other words the beginning and end of his reign. In the PTS of TLD his entrance was pretty magnificent and I love the Gung Ho way he rips into the vehicle oblivious of danger.
    At the end of LTK I got a similar impression.

    He doesn't deliver the dramatic dialogue scenes as comfortably as Craig, but then - and I'm about to criticise Craig for the first time ever on these boards - Craig doesn't convince me with some of his one liner delivery in Spectre. He hasn't got Connery or Moore's natural instinct for delivering a killer funny line. When he says 'Cut out the middle man' it's with an unattractive sneer, rather than a self effacing smile as Moore would have done. He seemed better at it in CR and QOS, but it's like he was more aware of the humour in SP and tried a little too hard.

    Of course I prefer Craig, always have, but ranking LTK as my least favourite Bond film, simply means it's my 24th favourite film of all time - which isn't that bad. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    NicNac wrote: »
    He doesn't deliver the dramatic dialogue scenes as comfortably as Craig, but then - and I'm about to criticise Craig for the first time ever on these boards - Craig doesn't convince me with some of his one liner delivery in Spectre. He hasn't got Connery or Moore's natural instinct for delivering a killer funny line. When he says 'Cut out the middle man' it's with an unattractive sneer, rather than a self effacing smile as Moore would have done. He seemed better at it in CR and QOS, but it's like he was more aware of the humour in SP and tried a little too hard.
    I agree with you on Craig and the humour in SP. It did seem a little forced. Good catch on the 'sneer'. He seemed to do that with 'C' in M's office as well ("I think I'll call you C")

    I've always believed that Craig is better with the more sarcastic, biting, cynical humour, which he showcased in SF (museum & psych eval scene). In SP they tried for the slightly lighter style, and that's something very few actors can really pull off well. As you said, Moore was a master at it, as was Bruce Willis & even Arnie in their prime.

    I'm not sure if people noticed, but in the trailers for SP, they showed a different version of Bond's exchange with M when he talks about 'overdue holidays'. The version in the trailers attempted to showcase more humour, but it fell flat for me. In the final film, that line is edited, and Craig delivers it more seriously - it works better now.
  • Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    He doesn't deliver the dramatic dialogue scenes as comfortably as Craig, but then - and I'm about to criticise Craig for the first time ever on these boards - Craig doesn't convince me with some of his one liner delivery in Spectre. He hasn't got Connery or Moore's natural instinct for delivering a killer funny line. When he says 'Cut out the middle man' it's with an unattractive sneer, rather than a self effacing smile as Moore would have done. He seemed better at it in CR and QOS, but it's like he was more aware of the humour in SP and tried a little too hard.
    I agree with you on Craig and the humour in SP. It did seem a little forced. Good catch on the 'sneer'. He seemed to do that with 'C' in M's office as well ("I think I'll call you C")

    I've always believed that Craig is better with the more sarcastic, biting, cynical humour, which he showcased in SF (museum & psych eval scene). In SP they tried for the slightly lighter style, and that's something very few actors can really pull off well. As you said, Moore was a master at it, as was Bruce Willis & even Arnie in their prime.

    I'm not sure if people noticed, but in the trailers for SP, they showed a different version of Bond's exchange with M when he talks about 'overdue holidays'. The version in the trailers attempted to showcase more humour, but it fell flat for me. In the final film, that line is edited, and Craig delivers it more seriously - it works better now.

    I agree the holiday line is better in the film. Having said that the line in the trailer got a huge laugh from the audience that I saw that trailer with before Sicario.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    NicNac wrote: »
    Of course I prefer Craig, always have, but ranking LTK as my least favourite Bond film, simply means it's my 24th favourite film of all time - which isn't that bad. ;)

    That's in interesting way of looking at the films, and I envy those that can look at the films that way. But (here it comes), I don't share the same view. Quantum Of Solace, my 23rd favourite Bond film, or a steaming pile of rectal discharge? Definitely the latter.
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