DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I'm not that enthused about this Joker, to be honest. The tattoos, the dress sense, the neon green hair; it all just feels wrong.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    I've just heard that Affleck's first solo Batman film may be set in Arkham Asylum. Would this mean some sort of The Raid/Dredd type film, with Batfleck trying to escape Arkham and its many villains?
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,813
    with Batfleck trying to escape Arkham and its many villains?
    I believe it was Rorschach who said it best: "I'm not locked in here with you- you're locked in here with me!!" ;)

    I heard that news too- it might be a bit of a stretch to have the whole movie set in Arkham though, right?
    Whatever ends up happening, you can rest assured that bones will be broken!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    That sounds so boring and overdone to me, and this team wouldn't be able to better the game. Hopefully that's not the case. And with this Batman we've got now, in one film with that premise would see him straight up murdering every single villain he has in his rogue's gallery, such that there's no credible way for him to have any more solo films in the DCEU, simply because there'd be no villains left for him to fight.

    Their characterization of Batman has harmed so much, and added so much illogical luggage to everything past and future in the universe that surrounds him. The Ultimate cut only serves to make it even more apparent how vile he is.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    That sounds good to me. One thing about the Batman from BvS was that his downfall to brutalville felt real but yet still felt somehow unearned. I got where they were coming from with the "redemption of Batman" angle but without any previous context to it (most people will know the Jason Todd / Joker crowbar reference but still that's not enough) it felt wrong.

    However, I still appreciate it as a fresh take on the character whose morals I admire but occasionally find unrelatable. The key thing now is, with the end of BvS inspiring this Batman to become what he once was and abandon his ultra-violent ways (the guns now removed from the Batmobile etc), how are his actions going to affect the future? The Joker, for example, was always most interested in turning the Dark Knight inside out and forcing him to admit his true inner crazy. After Batman's descent and reascent, it could lead to a couple of interesting twists on familiar tales. The Joker knows Batman has touched the dark side, and he can use that as leverage to attempt to lure him back. With Leto's "rabid dog" approach to The Joker, that could be really interesting. Imagine if we got a live action adaptation of The Killing Joke or Under The Red Hood, with Batman harbouring guilt or anger about how far he fell after so many people he cared about died to protect his ideals, only to rise back up to a moral highground and then have those ideals challenged once more? I can only hope that having Geoff Johns onboard with a character driven storyteller such as Affleck will lead to these new approaches.

    What is done is done, and while I fully respect what @0Brady and co. say about BvS, I think that the raw, brutal Batman we saw is actually more believable (for better or worse) when you're going for a real world grittiness. I think vile is an unfair description.

    It's why the flashbacks of Suicide Squad are going to be really interesting to me. I'd be curious as to when they are set - after BvS and before Suicide Squad; or before both, with the main SS story taking place after BvS. I know that SS is set in Midway, but I hope that Bats makes an appearance (confronting Waller at the climax, for example) that will lead into Justice League ("You've formed your team, Waller. I have a little one of my own in the pipeline.").

    I don't think this DC film universe is a lost cause yet. I just hope they use the flawed but nonetheless really interesting baseline Snyder established to create something we know but haven't seen before.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how anyone could see this Batman as anything other than vile on sheer objective analysis alone.

    He brands people for death for no reason that's really explained, other than to clean a gene pool he deems unworthy, though he's a character that's rehabilitative in nature and not punitive.

    He thinks that a being who could maybe, sorta, possibly, be 1% evil deserves 100%, unrelenting destruction. Seriously, what math is he doing here? Everyone has the chance to be evil, but until they show you that they are indeed that, you don't do anything, and you must certainly don't try and stab them through the heart with a kryptonite spear. Christ, this guy is worse than Luthor. At the beginning Luthor wanted the kryptonite as a nice little silver bullet to use if Superman did turn bad, but Batman wants to steal it and use it right away, regardless of if Superman is a real threat or not. And Lex is the villain here?

    This Batman is so concerned about the dangers of Superman and the deaths he brought about (though he quite obviously never raised a hand against a human and is always helping earth after the battle of Metropolis in any way he can), that he completely fails to see how hypocritical he's being while he goes out on the town in his incendiary tank gun wheeler mobile armory batmobile to incinerate, purge and straight up demolish anyone that stands in the way of his selfish and misguided goals.

    This isn't Batman, no matter how many times people try to argue otherwise. People use the excuse that there's multiple versions of Batman that've come along across the decades, but after a while core, unmistakable traits represent who a character is that don't really fluctuate. This is especially true if the character is a comic book hero with a defined set of traits like Batman or Superman, Spider-Man or Captain America. These characters don't change quite as much as people like to think/say they do.

    BvS is so removed from the comics, even Elseworlds stories, and that is truly upsetting. It would be like if a film about Jesus' life was made where instead of going around blessing people, he touched all of the people in Nazareth who sinned and afflicted them with a plague, then got in a fight with his dad on a hill, angry about why humans can be such asshats and why it's him that has to save them. Do you think people would be happy to see that backwards version of a renowned figure? No, and the case shouldn't be different here with Batman or Superman, the latter of which really got trashed.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,216
    @0Brady, I'm sorry you can't see anything with potential in this universe at all. I guess it's just not for you. Unfortunate but fair enough. The point of my post was not to debate Batman's actions in BvS, which were antagonistic and wrong, but to see where we would go from here and how to make sure that is a logical step within the world that has been created. With a different director and a good writer (both of which we now have), I do have a lot of hope for it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I've just heard that Affleck's first solo Batman film may be set in Arkham Asylum. Would this mean some sort of The Raid/Dredd type film, with Batfleck trying to escape Arkham and its many villains?

    Would love to see an adaptation of the comic book "Arkham Asylum" from 1989, by Grant Morrison.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, I represent what I highly suspect is the majority of the DC fan base, if the negative opinions of all the people I trust in life and those I follow for their reviews on the internet (and who are just as big a fan as me) are to be believed, which number exceedingly higher than any positives, of which I know of little.

    If I and all these people aren't the audience for this movie, I don't know who is, as we're the only ones that actually care beyond seeing a blockbuster explosion fest. I fail to see the appeal of watching a hypocritical homicidal guy in bat ears go on a rampage, or a man from space who moans about how everyone dislikes him without actually doing anything to change that, before labeling himself as a bad man openly and forsaking any respect he could've gained. And worse yet, his horrid earth parents, the mother who tells him to do this or that, it doesn't matter, or his dad, who tells him that doing good things brings nothing but bad.

    Who seriously enjoys this? It's not deep filmmaking, it's not interesting characterization, as these characters have no depth, and none of it resembles even a hint of who the world knows these characters to be. What's the point of having a Justice League when you're giving people versions of these "heroes" that are like Bizarro versions of them all?

    Snyder took numerous great comic stories, ripped off their panels to do visual homages (all he can do, I guess), and in the process, made sure to sap all the emotion, meaning and impact from all of them.

    In The Dark Knight Returns, when Batman must raise a gun and shoot a Mutant to save a kid, he does it because he has no choice, because it had to be done, and it troubles him beyond imagination at the state the world has grown to be in. In BvS, that moment is adapted just for another explosive combat moment and "cool" image, and the meaning it should've had is stripped away. It's not impactful or emotional to watch a Batman forced to kill someone because we've watched this bastard do it for the entire movie to any number of people, with not a shred of remorse, and with no great pay off or moment of revelation at all he did wrong. And that's because this isn't Batman, as the real Batman would've hung up the suit the day he couldn't do the job without resorting to full measures like that.

    The Death of Superman arc is powerful because we watch Superman see his friends fall at the hands of a deadly creature, until he's left to face it. It's tense and painful and emotional because we know who this man is, what he stands for as a beacon of hope for the world, and why his fellow heroes stand with him, and experienced all their past adventures and shared a history with them. When Superman sacrifices himself and his body is carried in its casket post battle, followed by all the heroes inspired by him, it's a beautiful moment because writers showed us why he was a symbol for the world, why people were willing to go to death's door with him, and just what a world without Superman would look like as they all paid tribute to an alien that became one of them.

    And the list goes on and on. BvS sucked away everything special about the heroes and the emotion, impact and meaning of their greatest stories, leaving behind nothing but shoddy characters with even shoddier motivations that no kids deserve to have for their heroes.

    These heroes are inarguably insane. Batman and Superman have this shoddy conflict, fight for three minutes, then, as Batman is about to stab Superman, hearing that Supes has a mom changes absolutely everything for him, and all the so-called unwavering, hardcore principles he was fighting for to save the earth died as they became best buddies for no great reason at all. Then this batty bastard has the audacity to call himself a friend of Superman's to Ma Kent, not thirty minutes after he was going to straight up murder him medieval-style with that spear.

    What a joke it all is, from a story standpoint, a character standpoint, a filmmaking standpoint and a quality standpoint.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    @CraigMooreOHMSS, I represent what I highly suspect is the majority of the DC fan base, if the negative opinions of all the people I trust in life and those I follow for their reviews on the internet (and who are just as big a fan as me) are to be believed, which number exceedingly higher than any positives, of which I know of little.

    If I and all these people aren't the audience for this movie, I don't know who is, as we're the only ones that actually care beyond seeing a blockbuster explosion fest. I fail to see the appeal of watching a hypocritical homicidal guy in bat ears go on a rampage, or a man from space who moans about how everyone dislikes him without actually doing anything to change that, before labeling himself as a bad man openly and forsaking any respect he could've gained. And worse yet, his horrid earth parents, the mother who tells him to do this or that, it doesn't matter, or his dad, who tells him that doing good things brings nothing but bad.

    Who seriously enjoys this? It's not deep filmmaking, it's not interesting characterization, as these characters have no depth, and none of it resembles even a hint of who the world knows these characters to be. What's the point of having a Justice League when you're giving people versions of these "heroes" that are like Bizarro versions of them all?

    Snyder took numerous great comic stories, ripped off their panels to do visual homages (all he can do, I guess), and in the process, made sure to sap all the emotion, meaning and impact from all of them.

    In The Dark Knight Returns, when Batman must raise a gun and shoot a Mutant to save a kid, he does it because he has no choice, because it had to be done, and it troubles him beyond imagination at the state the world has grown to be in. In BvS, that moment is adapted just for another explosive combat moment and "cool" image, and the meaning it should've had is stripped away. It's not impactful or emotional to watch a Batman forced to kill someone because we've watched this bastard do it for the entire movie to any number of people, with not a shred of remorse, and with no great pay off or moment of revelation at all he did wrong. And that's because this isn't Batman, as the real Batman would've hung up the suit the day he couldn't do the job without resorting to full measures like that.

    The Death of Superman arc is powerful because we watch Superman see his friends fall at the hands of a deadly creature, until he's left to face it. It's tense and painful and emotional because we know who this man is, what he stands for as a beacon of hope for the world, and why his fellow heroes stand with him, and experienced all their past adventures and shared a history with them. When Superman sacrifices himself and his body is carried in its casket post battle, followed by all the heroes inspired by him, it's a beautiful moment because writers showed us why he was a symbol for the world, why people were willing to go to death's door with him, and just what a world without Superman would look like as they all paid tribute to an alien that became one of them.

    And the list goes on and on. BvS sucked away everything special about the heroes and the emotion, impact and meaning of their greatest stories, leaving behind nothing but shoddy characters with even shoddier motivations that no kids deserve to have for their heroes.

    These heroes are inarguably insane. Batman and Superman have this shoddy conflict, fight for three minutes, then, as Batman is about to stab Superman, hearing that Supes has a mom changes absolutely everything for him, and all the so-called unwavering, hardcore principles he was fighting for to save the earth died as they became best buddies for no great reason at all. Then this batty bastard has the audacity to call himself a friend of Superman's to Ma Kent, not thirty minutes after he was going to straight up murder him medieval-style with that spear.

    What a joke it all is, from a story standpoint, a character standpoint, a filmmaking standpoint and a quality standpoint.

    Yes. I got all that, and I agree with almost all of it just as I did when it was stated in the BvS thread. But once more, my original post was not specific to BvS or its failings but more about where we go from here. Regarding the moment Batman shoots the mutant in The Dark Knight Returns; I agree. It's one of my favourite Batman moments for those reasons exactly. But, to follow that same point, surely there is no reason why those emotions couldn't be adapted into a bigger picture to follow Batman's misgivings and poor judgement in BvS? You're saying there is almost no point in continuing on with the films, even with the change in creative direction that has been initiated outside of the Justice League film?

    I say all of this as someone who has only started heavily reading Batman comics in the last 10 years and is far more interested in his solo adventures than the Justice League stories.
  • Posts: 9,846
    For me I love BVS. And before you say well what do you know..

    Hmm I have been reading every issue of Batman since 2006 (as well as most of detective comics)
    I read many of the graphic novels
    Saw every episode of Batman the animated series and Batman beyond
    I saw most of Brave and the bold and beware the batman(which I thought was brilliant)
    And ever live action film.

    So am I a "Batman expert" well that I guess depends on your definition.

    The issue is in my opinion is Snyder (with Nolan's blessing I might add) is a visual director and in some ways it works in others it doesn't.

    Let's really analyze the Martha scene again

    What we see here is a Batman who realizes just how far he was pushed and how much a criminal he became. This is really Frank Miller's Dark Knight returns Batman but with a moment of redemption. He doesn't stop killing superman because their mothers have the same name but because he remembers he feeling of pain and hopelessness he felt when his parents died. It's as powerful as the "why do we fall" line in batman begins.

    This is shown visually and brilliantly acted by Affleck...

    The one thing I will say Brady is Affleck directing and writing will give his batman a different view and tone then Snyder. I would recommend you check out the town and Argo so you can see how different a director Affleck is.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    That moment only serves that specific moment in the comic, and can't be adapted any other way with credibility. It could only be done well with a Batman that didn't kill warehouses full of men, but they didn't go that route, so it definitely falls on its face because nothing is there beyond the rather empty image. Seeing Batman use a gun should be a shocking moment, but in BvS the reaction is, "Oh, now he's just gonna kill another dude." It loses everything about it that makes it interesting and memorable, thirty years on.

    Who knows if DC and Warner should bother with doing a DCEU. Future films and the public reception of them will shape their plans, whether I like what's put out or not. The backlash won't stop enough of the money from rolling in, and poor box office is the only thing that could change things in a meaningful way. It's no secret I couldn't care less what comes next, and that won't change unless DC and Warner actually set out to make a universe worth supporting, and they haven't done that yet.

    It's worrying, though. If they can't do Batman and Superman justice or make audiences and critics alike flock to them or even like them at all, what chances do the Flash and Cyborg films have? They'll be dead in the water, with an audience that doesn't care about them or their adventures. DC and Warner don't have the patience, talent and smarts on their film branches to get Marvel and Disney level success. That's inarguable at this stage.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Beautiful new Wonder Woman poster unveiled at SDCC:

    Wonder-Woman-Comic-Con-Poster.jpg
  • Posts: 9,846
    Best poster I have seen in some time I really think Wonder Woman will be an opening weekend film and I know next to nothing about the character
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    That's a great poster! You can tell Snyder had nothing to do with this; just look at all that colour. Gadot is one sexy mamita.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2016 Posts: 15,715
    Summer 2017 is going to be firing on all cylinders, featuring Wonder Woman, Spiderman: Homecoming, The Mummy, Alien: Covenant, Valerian, Dunkirk, War of the Planet of the Apes, Kingsman 2 and Bad Boys 3!
  • Posts: 4,813
    Wow, I just found a massive spoiler from Killing Joke, which involves the Barbara stuff they added:
    tumblr_inline_oaqhmcKjkq1qbujox_500.gif
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 6,432
    This is glorious, and so, so suitably honest:



    At some moments, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry in pain.

    =))
    Wow, I just found a massive spoiler from Killing Joke, which involves the Barbara stuff they added:
    tumblr_inline_oaqhmcKjkq1qbujox_500.gif

    WTF

  • Posts: 9,846
    Wow, I just found a massive spoiler from Killing Joke, which involves the Barbara stuff they added:
    tumblr_inline_oaqhmcKjkq1qbujox_500.gif


    Uhm I uhm I will be on the bathroom if anyone needs me
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The Barbara thing is that bad, eh? You're all making me unpleasantly interested.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Things aren't going swimmingly for Aquaman.

    http://collider.com/aquaman-movie-writer-will-beall/
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's no wonder these scripts come together so badly in the final product when they're a mish mash of four or more different visions. Seriously, who thinks that's a great idea?

    For Aquaman, just do a story surrounding Arthur struggling to keep his throne against a waning underwater empire being besieged by outside forces and armies, while his kingship is sought after on all sides by his greedy and power hungry colleagues in high office. Featuring a crumbling underwater empire would be a great way to introduce Arthur as a man of elegance and power in his rule, while also creating a nice callback to the crumbling Kryptonian empire seen in MoS as we once again witness a world on the brink of destruction. With Arthur showing himself to the world in Justice League, a conflict in the solo film could revolve around his people turning on him for revealing their existence to the world, and meddling in the affairs of the land people where they have no place, purpose or gain.

    The JLA animated series provided a great origin story for the character of Arthur Curry that delved into this kind of political intrigue with themes of deception on the part of Aquaman's allies and sacrifice on his part to save his kingdom and family from danger. DC could spin a strong story full of tension, espionage-like intrigue and political drama by featuring a game of thrones playing out as Aquaman begins questioning who his allies are as more and more vie for his throne and wish to tear him from it, if need be. The film would see him tested and formed as a leader by all he faced, proving himself a worthy ruler unquestionably in the end, alongside Mera.

    That's the kind of Aquaman movie I'd want to see.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    I'd go see it. :D
  • Posts: 4,813
    The Barbara thing is that bad, eh? You're all making me unpleasantly interested.
    I wouldn't call it bad, but unless I'm forgetting something, they're doing something new with a relationship between two characters, and for the purposes of this movie, will definitely add a new layer!

    My only concern is :
    I knew Barbara having 'a crush' on Batman was canon in the beginning, but isn't she supposed to be a lot younger than him?Oh, well. it never stopped Bond I suppose! (lookin' at you, Roger) ;)
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    The Warner Bros panel at Comic Con is scheduled to start in 30 minutes. We may very well have some new Suicide Squad content, a Wonder Woman trailer, and perhaps even a Justice League tease by the time the dust settles.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Holy shit, its like Christmas!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited July 2016 Posts: 11,139
    I'm happy...like really happy with the trailers...but I NEED TO keep my excitement in check. WW impressed me more btw. My heart can't take another debacle. Needless to say, I'm just about hanging on to the hype train for these 2.
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