DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    @Thunderfinger
    I completely agree. The Cyborg arc was handled very well in the Snyder Cut, not unlike how they had told his story in Justice League: War (DCAMU). It had sadly been reduced to a footnote in Whedon's film, lacking story content, character development, and resolution. But Snyder's film pushed his arc to the forefront, making his introduction in the DCEU among the most powerful.

    @MakeshiftPython
    I love the DCAU too. Timm, Dini and others have created something unique, unique in tone, style and approach. But I also love the world of MOS/BvS/JL TSC. They are different, but so are various comic book series. There is not one definitive or good DC series, in my opinion at least. Of course, that's all a matter of personal taste. And yes, these are long films. Combined, they easily run for well over nine hours. That's a Lord Of The Rings level of commitment for any viewer. But you can easily watch these films episodically, say one hour at a time. JL TSC, especially, is told in 'parts', and the film comes as two Blu-Ray discs as well. Given the nature of these stories, it's not mandatory to sit through the whole thing at once. That said, I have so far always watched the film in one take and I can say from experience that it's like getting a "runner's high". That final hour, I'm coasting on accumulated adrenaline levels, so when the league battles Steppenwolf for the climax, I am in a DC comics super-rush. When the film is over, it feels like I have invested so much time and energy in the whole thing that I am victorious in some way too, except that I never struggled with watching the film. It's pure fun for me. ;-)

    @AstonLotus
    A high-five to you too!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)

    Oh! I'm in heaven. Because I will defend Cavill as Superman. I think he rocks in the role. Thanks for the good news, @CraigMooreOHMSS!!! :-)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,369
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)

    Really? Is that confirmed? That's very interesting.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    I’m not a fan of the Snyderverse personally. With The Batman obviously being a separate thing, while currently at the top of my list regarding DC films, my favourite entries into the DCEU specifically are Man Of Steel, Wonder Woman, and The Suicide Squad (the sequel not the Ayer version). And that’s it. These felt like the most authentic to the characters and the source material, with everything else feeling like an interpretation that had missed the mark for me personally. I like to spend time with characters and felt like we were thrown in the deep end with all the ones introduced in Batman V Superman and Justice League.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited March 2022 Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)

    Really? Is that confirmed? That's very interesting.

    Not officially confirmed yet, alas (and I doubt it ever will be, except by the film itself on release). The only reason I give it some credibility is that they're separate to previous reports of him shooting scenes for Shazam 2; and lines up with what Warner Bros. seemingly want to do with Superman for the time being (which is have him in the background).
    Denbigh wrote: »
    These felt like the most authentic to the characters and the source material.

    I suppose it depends on which version of the source material you're attempting to be authentic to.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I suppose it depends on which version of the source material you're attempting to be authentic to.

    I agree with that. The 'source material' itself is more diverse than people's outfits at a comic con. You read twenty different DC titles and you're likely to end up with at least fifteen different iterations of the main characters. Even Snyder's gloomy and burdened-by-their-powers superheroes have their comic book antecedents.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    These felt like the most authentic to the characters and the source material.

    I suppose it depends on which version of the source material you're attempting to be authentic to.
    Sure, but I guess I just personally feel that the films I've mentioned are authentic to the characters' source material as a whole rather than specifically one interpretation. If that makes sense.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    These felt like the most authentic to the characters and the source material.

    I suppose it depends on which version of the source material you're attempting to be authentic to.
    Sure, but I guess I just personally feel that the films I've mentioned are authentic to the characters' source material as a whole rather than specifically one interpretation. If that makes sense.

    Since this isn't an exact science I'd say that pretty much every opinion makes sense, @Denbigh. ;-)
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)

    Oh! I'm in heaven. Because I will defend Cavill as Superman. I think he rocks in the role. Thanks for the good news, @CraigMooreOHMSS!!! :-)

    This is good news indeed. I'd wondered why we hadn't gotten a Man of Steel sequel yet and feared we had seen the last of Cavill's Supes. It'll be good to see him in a new one, even if it's just briefly.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)

    Oh! I'm in heaven. Because I will defend Cavill as Superman. I think he rocks in the role. Thanks for the good news, @CraigMooreOHMSS!!! :-)

    This is good news indeed. I'd wondered why we hadn't gotten a Man of Steel sequel yet and feared we had seen the last of Cavill's Supes. It'll be good to see him in a new one, even if it's just briefly.
    WB would be stupid to let Cavill's Superman go.
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @DarthDimi, I think part of the reason for yet another delay for The Flash is that Cavill is actually shooting scenes for it, just fyi! :)

    Oh! I'm in heaven. Because I will defend Cavill as Superman. I think he rocks in the role. Thanks for the good news, @CraigMooreOHMSS!!! :-)

    This is good news indeed. I'd wondered why we hadn't gotten a Man of Steel sequel yet and feared we had seen the last of Cavill's Supes. It'll be good to see him in a new one, even if it's just briefly.
    WB would be stupid to let Cavill's Superman go.

    Agreed. I still have no idea what's holding up another lone Superman film. They certainly have villains to choose from, and I feel like that could be a really easy moneymaker for them.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Especially as Cavill has said he's incredibly eager to do another film, solo or otherwise. He's established himself in the part by now. Just give him some cool new stories.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Especially as Cavill has said he's incredibly eager to do another film, solo or otherwise. He's established himself in the part by now. Just give him some cool new stories.

    Yep.I think a lot of audiences were not ready for Cavills more grounded take on Superman in 2013,but his star has risen since then and he has a big fan base ( especially in the geek community ).A high quality MOS sequel would do really well especially coming off the success of The Snyder Cut.

    I don’t believe he’s in The Flash though,I think the film is delayed because of the Discovery merger.Also,it’s rumoured WB were unwilling to meet his salary demands for another Supes film.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2022 Posts: 8,182
    Superman being portrayed as an emo sourpuss in both SUPERMAN RETURNS and MAN OF STEEL is enough for me to see that WB not only doesn’t understand Superman but that they actively hate the character. Im so tired of the whole approach of making Superman feel like a loner with the emphasis on him being an alien. “I’m the last survivor, wow is me”

    The only times Cavill felt closest to Superman was when he was flying for the first time in MOS and all the Whedon reshoot footage.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    And the Whedon reshot footage proved to me that the boyscout approach ironically wouldn't fly. A lot of it is to do with Whedon's poor dialogue, but even the tone of it was cringeworthy. Awful stuff.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    But a one-dimensional Superman is exactly what a lot of people resent. How many times haven't I heard that "I don't like Superman because he can do everything and nothing can harm him and he is too perfect." By giving him inner struggles, the filmmakers at least try to make him less super. I agree that he turns a little "emo" now and then, but not nearly often enough to put me off. Also, Nolan introduced the burdoned and troubled hero and we . ate . it . up. From then on, we wanted to see the scars, we wanted our heroes humanized. And to be honest, I love Superman's conflicts. But when he appears in front of Steppenwolf and treats him like a little b****, I make a fist and yell 'yeah!'. 😄
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I love the boy scout approach. It’s a nice contrast to Batman, which we’ve had far more solo films of than of Superman ever since the film rights reverted back to WB in 1992.

    And Chris Evans’ Captain America proves that a boy scout approach doesn’t turn off audiences in the slightest.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited March 2022 Posts: 8,216
    I stopped thinking of Captain America as a boyscout after the first Avengers film, to be honest. And he was more interesting as a result.
  • As @DarthDimi mentioned earlier, there have been multiple iterations of these characters in the comics and graphic novels. We have seen Superman cope with the loss of Pa Kent previously. He goes through it sometimes, emotionally. He's human (for an alien anyway). I do see Cavill's Superman as embodying the traits of the classic Superman. Chris Evans' Captain America might be a step closer still to the idea of a Boy Scout just in terms of Joe Johnston's more cheerful, more upbeat direction, but he still suffers his own grief and kills when he needs to. I'm not sure I've seen Captain America wrestle, internally, with having to kill the way Cavill's Superman does when he kills Zod. These characters can be portrayed in more well-rounded ways while still preserving the essence of who they are.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I’m not suggesting that Superman have no internal conflict or grief. Reeve had some of that. I think Singer and Snyder leaned WAAYY too hard onto that aspect to make “relatable”, when the whole point of Superman is that he’s aspirational. I get none of that from Routh and Cavill. And the attempts at grief rang false. One minute Supes looks distraught, then the following scenes don’t even acknowledge that in favor of tone deaf humor “I think he’s hawt”. They just had a fraction of the city obliterated, and then we see the sports journalists trying to pick up Lois with court side side seats.

    And the idea that a traditional Superman wouldn’t work doesn’t fly when the first Donner film came out at a very cynical and gritty era of cinema after Watergate and Vietnam. That’s why Lois makes a crack over Superman’s truth justice and the American way “you sound like you’re gonna run against every elected official in this country”.

    Audiences will buy into it as long as the filmmakers actually believe in that Superman. Unfortunately, we haven’t had any director that believed in Superman unless he was brooding, and given how disappointed the studio was with both SR and MOS underperforming, it seems audiences weren’t taken with those interpretations either.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,343
    John Stewart from the Snyder Cut. The scene was cut because of WB and Snyder agreed to replace it with the Martian Manhunter one.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2022 Posts: 8,182
    I would have preferred that.

    The Martian Manhunter stuff was terrible and just makes no sense. It also just makes him look like an asshole

    MM: “Hey, I decided only after Steppenwolf tried to conquer Earth that I’ll actually start helping out for now on.”
    Bored Affleck: “eh, okay, cool.”
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,394
    I stopped thinking of Captain America as a boyscout after the first Avengers film, to be honest. And he was more interesting as a result.

    The Winter Soldier is what really made Evans Captain America.Putting this boyscout in a darker corner of the MCU where he didn’t know who to trust really developed his character in a great way.

    It’s why I like Cavills Superman so much.Some people consider his interpretation “ dark “.It isn’t,it just more realistically shows how much a character who has all that power would struggle to find acceptance in a real world.Keeping his powers a secret for most of his life must have taken an emotional toll,but the fact that he still tries to do the right thing is what makes him Superman.

    And yeah,that scene in the Snyder cut where he shows Steppenwolf who’s boss was absolutely EPIC! It was up there with Captain America using Thor’s hammer.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-ezra-miller-hawaii-disorderly-conduct-harassment-arrested/

    I think their career is just as much trouble as Will Smith’s.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-ezra-miller-hawaii-disorderly-conduct-harassment-arrested/

    I think their career is just as much trouble as Will Smith’s.

    Misbehaving celebs are nothing new, surely. And people forget things. Well, maybe studio execs don't. Here's another actor I like, so I hope this doesn't interfere with his future work.

    I must also apologize for not doing the 'they' and 'them' thing. It's got nothing to do with how I feel about people who are gender-neutral, just with simple grammar. "Miller then threw the woman to the floor with their hands around her neck"... ? Yeah, my spelling corrector software just called me an illiterate buffoon so I'm going to stick to singular - singular constructions. Just wanted to make that clear lest I be wrongfully accused of looking down on people who identify as neither male nor female.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    So much for #RestoreTheSnyderVerse
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,619
    So much for #RestoreTheSnyderVerse

    Watch out, Ray Fisher will never stop criticizing you for that.

    https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-ray-fisher-uses-oscar-moment-demand-dc-films-apology/
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Man, I think Ray Fisher is a very good actor, but I’ve never seen someone tank their own career as fast and hard than George Lazenby.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 16,369
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-ezra-miller-hawaii-disorderly-conduct-harassment-arrested/

    I think their career is just as much trouble as Will Smith’s.

    Misbehaving celebs are nothing new, surely. And people forget things. Well, maybe studio execs don't. Here's another actor I like, so I hope this doesn't interfere with his future work.

    I saw someone saying that the studio haven't been able to do the required (and normal) reshoots on The Flash because Miller hasn't made themselves available- and that was before this arrest. I don't know if that's true or just rumour (the person had a blue tick on Twitter but I suppose that's not proof) but if it is I guess it would be a bit of a career ruiner.

    Man, I think Ray Fisher is a very good actor, but I’ve never seen someone tank their own career as fast and hard than George Lazenby.

    Yeah, he had to deal with an unpleasant man for two months half a decade ago: not nice I'm sure and I hope he gets what he's after, but maybe concentrate a bit more on paying those bills.
    Curious career: looks like he only had one TV role before getting the part?
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