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Things you're ashamed to admit as a Bond fan
I'm not sure that there has been a consolidated thread on this topic before, but I thought it might be interesting and cathartic for us to share and discuss the things we're ashamed to admit as Bond fans. What I mean is: we're all told things like "Sean Connery is the best Bond - bar none" and "OHMSS is an underrated gem" and "the Moore movies are an embarrassment" - but what if you don't necessarily agree? What if your opinions don't line up with the popular ones?
Let me say first that I don't think we should question each other's true "fandom". If we're posting on this site, I think it's fair to say we are all devoted and educated Bond fans.
Now, with that said (and with the understanding that I own all 22 official films and watch them frequently), here are a list of some of the things I'm ashamed to admit as a Bond fan:
1. I really don't like OHMSS. I think it's highly overrated. The plot is silly and Blofield's motivation is weak and semi-unintelligible. I don't think Lazenby was a good Bond. I'm glad he only did one film. I think I like Dianna Rigg and I like to see Bond grow emotionally attached to a woman, but it's hard to buy his true and deep feelings when he shares a bed of straw with her in the barn literally the night after sharing a bed with two other women. Tracy's dad is a sexist oaf. And worst of all is the sound mix. Dialogue is too soft, action is too damn loud. And I hate Lazenby dubbed as Sir Hillary Bray. Allergies? Really? "You will learn to love chickens. Love their flesh, love their voice." Seriously? "The hay fever, or the inability to eat meat, or the sickness caused by the oysters."
2. I re-watch Moore and Brosnan's movies more than any others. I know that - on the whole - they are much sillier, but I think it's just that escapist quality that makes them more fun to watch over and over. I will admit that "From Russia With Love" or "Casino Royale" or "Goldfinger" are vastly better movies, but they aren't as enjoyable. If I'm going to sit down after a hard day, I'd rather watch Moore or Brosnan than Connery or Craig.
3. On that same note, I don't really like Connery. I know, I know. Let the flaming begin. But his movies are dated. There's no getting around it. They're slow and often too long. And I hate the way he treats women. Slapping Tania around and spanking Dink is bad enough, but blackmailing the nurse in "Thunderball" for sex is sick and over the line.
4. Daniel Craig is my favorite Bond and "Casino Royale" is my favorite movie. Yes - I know. Those seem like the choices of a new fan or an uninformed one, but I'm neither. I think Craig has the interesting ability to show a Bond who simultaneously takes pleasure in and despises the finer things in life that he uses to mask his emotional pain and guilt. That's who Bond is to me.
5. Barring the obvious problems of a weak plot and a shaky camera, I think "Quantum of Solace" is pretty great. As an American, though, I can't say I appreciate the anti-US sentiments.
6. I love Timothy Dalton as Bond, but I like "The Living Daylights" better than "Licence to Kill", which is weird since TLD seems almost more like one of Roger's films. Maybe it's just that LTK is too dark to re-watch often.
7. On a similar note, Pam Bouvier is my favorite Bond girl, and the short cut is sexy as hell. (Although better down than gelled, I'll admit.)
8. I love "Live and Let Die" and I love "A View to A Kill". There - I said it. And yes, Grace Jones freaks me out, but that's part of the fun!
9. In Bond gaming - I never really took to "Nightfire", and certainly not to "Agent Under Fire". I know those are popular here on the gaming forums. I think Bond gaming peaked with "Everything or Nothing". "Bloodstone" had potential, but was too short and the story was far too nebulous. The new GE007 sucked. We all now it.
10. I think the Broccoli family has done a fabulous job maintaining the franchise. What some see as inconsistency, I see as adaptability and a willingness to tailor their storylines to the actors' strengths. The fluctuation in "quality" is really too subjective to measure, and with a franchise made up of 22 films, some are obviously going to be better than others.
11. I've only read one Fleming book - "Casino Royale" - and I thought the movie was better. Fleming's dialogue was painful. Maybe I'd enjoy some of the other books better if I gave them a try.
12. Fleming seems like a jerk in interviews and so does John Barry. Maybe I'm wrong.
13. Okay - I know I've been all about tolerance here, but one thing I can't stand is when people (like Lee Tamahori, for instance) posit the theory that James Bond is a codename and that all the actors that have played him are actually individual MI6 agents. Ugg... I mean, Tracy is referenced in the Moore era, the Dalton era, and (albeit indirectly) in the Brosnan era. Now that said - I think it is reasonable to speculate if a new timeline has begun with Craig and will continue from here or dovetail with the existing one. I'm hoping for the latter, somehow.
So share (if you dare) and feel free to comment on my views too.
WDM
Let me say first that I don't think we should question each other's true "fandom". If we're posting on this site, I think it's fair to say we are all devoted and educated Bond fans.
Now, with that said (and with the understanding that I own all 22 official films and watch them frequently), here are a list of some of the things I'm ashamed to admit as a Bond fan:
1. I really don't like OHMSS. I think it's highly overrated. The plot is silly and Blofield's motivation is weak and semi-unintelligible. I don't think Lazenby was a good Bond. I'm glad he only did one film. I think I like Dianna Rigg and I like to see Bond grow emotionally attached to a woman, but it's hard to buy his true and deep feelings when he shares a bed of straw with her in the barn literally the night after sharing a bed with two other women. Tracy's dad is a sexist oaf. And worst of all is the sound mix. Dialogue is too soft, action is too damn loud. And I hate Lazenby dubbed as Sir Hillary Bray. Allergies? Really? "You will learn to love chickens. Love their flesh, love their voice." Seriously? "The hay fever, or the inability to eat meat, or the sickness caused by the oysters."
2. I re-watch Moore and Brosnan's movies more than any others. I know that - on the whole - they are much sillier, but I think it's just that escapist quality that makes them more fun to watch over and over. I will admit that "From Russia With Love" or "Casino Royale" or "Goldfinger" are vastly better movies, but they aren't as enjoyable. If I'm going to sit down after a hard day, I'd rather watch Moore or Brosnan than Connery or Craig.
3. On that same note, I don't really like Connery. I know, I know. Let the flaming begin. But his movies are dated. There's no getting around it. They're slow and often too long. And I hate the way he treats women. Slapping Tania around and spanking Dink is bad enough, but blackmailing the nurse in "Thunderball" for sex is sick and over the line.
4. Daniel Craig is my favorite Bond and "Casino Royale" is my favorite movie. Yes - I know. Those seem like the choices of a new fan or an uninformed one, but I'm neither. I think Craig has the interesting ability to show a Bond who simultaneously takes pleasure in and despises the finer things in life that he uses to mask his emotional pain and guilt. That's who Bond is to me.
5. Barring the obvious problems of a weak plot and a shaky camera, I think "Quantum of Solace" is pretty great. As an American, though, I can't say I appreciate the anti-US sentiments.
6. I love Timothy Dalton as Bond, but I like "The Living Daylights" better than "Licence to Kill", which is weird since TLD seems almost more like one of Roger's films. Maybe it's just that LTK is too dark to re-watch often.
7. On a similar note, Pam Bouvier is my favorite Bond girl, and the short cut is sexy as hell. (Although better down than gelled, I'll admit.)
8. I love "Live and Let Die" and I love "A View to A Kill". There - I said it. And yes, Grace Jones freaks me out, but that's part of the fun!
9. In Bond gaming - I never really took to "Nightfire", and certainly not to "Agent Under Fire". I know those are popular here on the gaming forums. I think Bond gaming peaked with "Everything or Nothing". "Bloodstone" had potential, but was too short and the story was far too nebulous. The new GE007 sucked. We all now it.
10. I think the Broccoli family has done a fabulous job maintaining the franchise. What some see as inconsistency, I see as adaptability and a willingness to tailor their storylines to the actors' strengths. The fluctuation in "quality" is really too subjective to measure, and with a franchise made up of 22 films, some are obviously going to be better than others.
11. I've only read one Fleming book - "Casino Royale" - and I thought the movie was better. Fleming's dialogue was painful. Maybe I'd enjoy some of the other books better if I gave them a try.
12. Fleming seems like a jerk in interviews and so does John Barry. Maybe I'm wrong.
13. Okay - I know I've been all about tolerance here, but one thing I can't stand is when people (like Lee Tamahori, for instance) posit the theory that James Bond is a codename and that all the actors that have played him are actually individual MI6 agents. Ugg... I mean, Tracy is referenced in the Moore era, the Dalton era, and (albeit indirectly) in the Brosnan era. Now that said - I think it is reasonable to speculate if a new timeline has begun with Craig and will continue from here or dovetail with the existing one. I'm hoping for the latter, somehow.
So share (if you dare) and feel free to comment on my views too.
WDM
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Comments
I think CR and Daniel Craig are overrated. I think Craig is good, but not as amazing as some make out, when people are comparing him to Connery, etc, I just don't see it. I am looking forward to him playing classic Bond in SF though, my opinion might change then.
CR has a great first half, but some of the dialouge with Bond and Vesper (the whole armour thing especially), is just ugh, and the finale with the sinking house I think is too OTT for the film and uses too much CGI.
I have been arguing this since its release.
How? Can you give an example?
For staters, I disagree with your view about OHMSS. In my opinion it's the best 007 movie from top to bottom. It's extremely well made. However, I have also read the Fleming novel which I happen to love, and I believe that only heightens my appreciation, since it is quite loyal to it. Perhaps if you get a chance to read it at some point, your opinion may change. But the film is very special to me, and I feel that it is arguably the only one of the series which transcends the genre, which is something quite rare.
I also disagree with you about Sean Connery. Though I am willing to side with those who prefer Dalton or Craig, Sir Sean can really do no wrong in my eyes as Bond. He was the template, and a damn fine one at that. The same thing for his films. They are of a different pace because they are of a different time. But I have no problem with that. For what they are, some of them work beautifully. My only real critique of Connery is his obvious lack of interest in his last two films, particularly YOLT. That, unfortunately, takes me out of the movie.
On the other hand I agree with you about the watchability aspect of the Moore and Brosnan films. Though I hold most of Connery's in higher regard, I do agree that the others (Moore much more so than Brosnan) can be more fun.
I also agree with your love of Dalton, but I differ on the latter point. Yes, LTK is much heavier and darker, but I've got no problem with that. It plays to his strengths so I have a more fulfilling time watching it over TLD.
Further elaborating on that point, Pam Bouvier is not necessarily my favorite Bond girl, but she's definitely in the top 3. I always though she was great. And agree with you about the short hair looking better when it's loose and not gelled.
Casino Royale is not my favorite film as indicated above, but it's pretty close. So I agree in your appreciation. I also feel quite similarly to you about Daniel Craig. I have equal appreciation for Connery and Dalton, but Craig is the real deal in my eyes.
I do love Live And Let Die (despite its flaws), but not so much A View To A Kill. I have a fondness for the latter because of childhood memories, and I love the song and the score. But I really can't get beyond that at this point.
I agree with your assessment of the Brocollis. I think you described it well.
Again, kudos for your post.
Connery and Craig are the best Bond actors but like the OP I find myself rewatching the Moore films more for the same reasons.
TMWTGG is vastly underrated and overly criticised
Gert Frobe is the best thing about the movie, GF
Brosnan's best performance was in TND even though it's not his best Bond film overall.
As much as I love Craig and would love him to do multiple Bond flicks, I'm almost convinced Bond 24 will be his last.
EoN not casting Monica Bellucci in a Bond film is the biggest missed opportunity in the series
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2689/controversial-opinions-about-bond-films
Careful though, as things can often get very heated.
And who was that aimed at?
I don't agree with Craig being on par with Connery but I definetly think him being first helps create the best Bond ever tag. Somebody did a great write up about this on another thread.
How? Can you give an example?
[/quote]
Yeah, although - admittedly - not a great one.
On Barry, I remember from one of the DVD extras (probably the one on Bond music, but I forget which movie that came with) he said something about not caring to watch Bond movies after he stopped working on them and that he didn't care to listen to the music either. I don't know - it just seemed egotistical to me. But on the other hand, I know he recommended Arnold, so there's that. I'm sure he was a fine person.
The Fleming thing is just a personality difference. I guess I get rubbed the wrong way by the idea that he wrote CR as his goodbye to a (presumably raucous) bachelorhood. I don't think I'd like hearing that if I was his future wife. But, I'm not a good example...I got married as fast as I could to the only girl I really ever dated at age 21. And yes, we're still married.
I totally agree. I used to be a detractor, but - oddly enough - it was my wife who changed my opinion on it. It's fun and funny and Maud Adams was smoking something fierce. I could do without the slide-whistle, but we all know that.
On a related issue: Sheriff Pepper. I can intellectually assent to the fact that he should never have been allowed within 100 miles of a Bond film...I'm from the American South, so I should be offended that such a negative caricature was played by an actor from NY...but still, I can't help but shake my head and laugh. Actually - probably shouldn't admit this - but reminds me a lot of my late grandfather (who was a perfectly decent if - opinionated - individual).
"What are you...Some kind of Doomsday machine, booey?"
I see. I have noticed that one before, but it honestly slipped my mind. This topic seems nuanced enough to merit a different thread, but if the moderators want to move it over to the the controversial-opinions one, I won't complain.
Finally, several of you mentioned that Sean Connery and his movies are great because they set the template. I completely agree with you. We wouldn't have Bond as he is and has been if it weren't for SC and at least his first four films. And I acknowledge that it was a different time and the sexual mores were different, but still...damn.
"Wake up or I'll leave you behind" SLAP. "Wake up or I'll leave you behind" SLAP.
That coupled with SC's own statements about women needing a good beating every-now-and-then have just colored my negative perceptions of him.
Thanks for all the responses! I hope we can keep this discussion going!
WDM
;)
Totally agree- that woman had Bond written all over her! To a lesser degree, Liz Hurley- another girl I would have loved to see in the 90's
'James you're hurting me!'
'AND I"LL DO WORSE THAN THAT IF YOU DON'T TELL ME!!!!
Yeesh, what was he going to do??
Liz Hurley definitely should have had a go, but I guess she was "tainted" by Austin Powers. (Man, that sounds dirty!)
On a related note - does Craig have something against blondes or what? I'm still holding out for an appearance from Yvonne Strahovski. She'd make a great addition as the first Australian Bond girl.
It was only then that I finally put it together 'hey, that's the same girl I said was hot in The Avengers!' :))
I have to admit, I hated it as well when I first tried it. But kept trying it (most likely in denial), until eventually I developed a taste for it. Now I really enjoy it without any problem. It's a little pathetic the lengths we go to sometimes to live out a fantasy.
:)) I'm saving that picture.
While I have slipped all of them into the player at one point or another DAD is by far the one I've played the most - I hasten to add just to watch certain scenes rather than the whole film.
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2843/the-james-bond-questions-thread/p10#Item_280
To otherwise answer, MR and DAD make me ashamed.
*Roger played Bond like a comedy show.
@Getafix made this point on another thread: he didn't play it like a comedy show. Sometimes stupid things around him would happen like sound/sight gags, but Roger played it fairly straight, just laughing at it all. Sure he had the one liners, but so do most Bonds. He still had his really dark moments too.
There is straight comedy throughout the films. And when Bond is a joke, it's a comedy show, nonetheless a travesty.
Thats a bit flimsy isnt it? I dont personally care for Seans hypocrisy in banging on about Scottish nationalism then him having no problem accepting a knighthood or Rogs bleating about foie gras but I appreciate and enjoy their contribution to the series.
In all fairness and despite being ashamed of myself I have to agree with you here. Clifton James just hits it out of the park so far its impossible not to enjoy JW.
Your quotes are entirely incorrect. Bond hits Tania once just after Kerim has been killed and he is angry at this silly little girl who doesnt understand what shes mixed up in. Although I dont agree with hitting women obviously, she needed a metaphorical slap in the face to wake up and smell the coffee that Klebb had stitched her up and they were in real trouble.
Dont really see how Seans own attitudes to hitting women have any relevance. You are comparing a fictional character with a real person - they are not the same even if they share the same face. You seem to be saying that hitting Tania coupled with his Playboy interview where he said you can slap a woman all add up to you disliking Sean/Bond.
On this dubious logic presumably you would punch Donald Pleasance if you saw him in the street for trying to bring about world war 3? Are you one of those people who wrote to the government to release Deidre Barlow when she got sent down?
Same. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with Scottland being independant, but I don't think the best mascot for it is a guy with a knighthood who lives in the Bahamas and doesn't even pay UK taxes.
Haha. Presumably hes doesnt like paying taxes to fund the English despite most of it being siphoned off over the border to pay for his compatriots dole and NHS.
Not CR?! You should be ashamed. Of any two, that should be one included! ;)