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Whats wrong with these people? The sooner religion is finally outlawed the better.
Viva the Dawkins revolution.
My observations throughout the years would lead me to modify the above...
"As long as people can make a profit from it there will always be war - especially if the people that start it send others to fight the war for them."
I'd love it to be enshrined in law that every politician who votes for war has to fight on the front lines with no exception - and they're always the first ones "over the trench".
Wonder how many of them would vote for war then? Politicians, always so brave with other peoples' lives...or the lives of other peoples' children.
It is actually a part of a whole movie that insults the phrophet Mohammed and the Islam, something that is really oil on the already raging fire of religious distrust.
The Russian tried to outlaw religion and they failed severly, as religion used to be part of the social glue that made societies. Hence the load of Islamic former Sovjet states in central Asia that kept religion alive even under Sovjet oppression, there religion is now ruling everyday lives as well.
No, sorry, Snake's right. One of the natural human states is fighting amongst ourselves. I'll use a line from 2007's The Mist: "As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room together, we pick sides and find ways to kill each other. It's why we invented politics and religion."
I stand corrected. So thats more than ample reason to start killing people is it?
Well when I say outlaw religion obviously I dont mean it lterally. That is unenforceable and would be totally against the liberal freedoms which I believe in (but, incidentally, the religious do not).
I just mean how long do we have to wait until religion is afforded its rightful place in the world and treated like the flat earth society or the Moonies - ie the preserve of the simple minded but essentially harmless?
This film should be compulsory viewing in every school in this country (and in the US but the Christian mafia there would never let that happen):
No, I agree that should not be a reason to start killing.
Probably wouldn't have happened if it were an isolated incident, but in the recent years the western world and the eastern world seem to clash more often than not.
Yeah can see how Libyans would have a real gripe against the west after we bailed out their revolution from being still born. Sorry not buying that one. Stop making excuses for these killers - Youtube videos, Danish cartoons, Theo Van Gogh: I'm noticing a pattern here. Its about time they just grew up.
Presumably you also mourn the 100 000s of innocent people killed in the western invasion of Iraq
These attacks are terrifying though. For let us not forget that while the rest of the world seems to keep its voice down, there are neo-Nazi's among us who are ever so eager to respond to any madness with more madness. I don't want the 1930s repeated!
Well I dont recall the Jews blowing themselves up in planes, trains and public buildings over any perceieved slight to their religion or giving orders for people to be executed left, right and centre.
Classic leftist reaction that if you voice your objection to the behaviour of Muslims you are automatically a Nazi which is perpetuating the spread of Islam through the west.
Apparently we are all supposed to be tolerant of these people well afraid I'm not. I'm sick of having to tiptoe around the sensibilties of these cretins and their adherence to some stone age fairytale. The same goes for Chrsitians. Its about time the secular majority stood up and said 'Anyone is free to think what they like in the privacy of their own home but dont expect the rest of us to a) give a toss about your beliefs and b)tolerate you trying to impose your infantile creed on the rest of us. If all that makes me BNP or a Nazi then I'll just have to live with it.
Well said SirHenry.
Why are we wasting our time, money and soldiers lives when these people are quite clearly happier residing in the middle ages? Lets just leave them to herd goats, have no electricity, stone people to death and praise Mohammed for giving them such a great life. Either that or leave the dictators in place as at least Saddam and Gadaffi kept the rabble in check and were always keen to buy our latest rocket launchers.
I thoroughly agree with you Wiz, especially on the last part. It goes back to what RC7 says about America's "world police" attitude. While I think it's great to see people stand up against dictators and for their human rights, our G here fails to see that there's nothing but trouble in it for us. They only ask for our help when they have no alternative, their actions continually show that they really don't otherwise want it. The G should just be straight up and tell the truth, because their actions show that they loathe and hold a new "Islamic state" in equal contempt as Saddam and Qaddafi. It's their countries, let them have the kind of Middle Ages styled state and all the Sharia law they want and let's let them kill each other because that's all the radicals pulling this B.S on the West seem to enjoy. They don't understand human rights and freedom of speech no matter how many times the concept is explained to them. It's gotten to the point with me that over there you can't tell who the good guys are, if indeed there are any.
What good guys? Have we still learnt nothing from the 80s after putting the Taliban in power just to get one over on the Russians only to have them bite us on the arse?
I'm sick of hearing the left bleating on about how the vast majority of Islam is peaceful and its only a fundamentalist minority that causes trouble.
Well the pictures I see of tens of thousands going mental in town squares from Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Lebanon - not to mention a load of them kicking off in Sydney it seems a bit more than a tiny minority. Maybe the hardcore suicide bombers are a tiny minority but it doesnt seem to take the rest of the population much provocation to start torching American flags and effigies of Obama.
If someone posting a pretty amateurish video slagging off your God on Youtube is enough to drive you to kill people then you must be pretty insecure in your faith in the guy. If Mohammed has you all sorted and you are all going to enjoy 72 virgins in paradise why not just chill out and laugh at all us idiots who dont believe? Its childishly pathetic to see them all jumping up and down in fury and to be honest its getting pretty boring now.
Ooh sorry Muslims did I offend you there? #sosueme
All there is to add is there will always be some corner of the world at war with itself and others, I don't need to elaborate on reasons why. The idea of 'world peace' simply won't happen in any of our lifetimes, too many people, with too many problems, too many belligerents or craving of power, it can only end in tears for as long as we all can see it. Some say, get world powers together and leaders and 'let's talk about it', but it isn't always as straight forward as that. So long as there is a Planet Earth, there will always be disputes or battles, it's been that way since the very first evolution of Mankind
I was reading through some of the above responses, and it was quite an interesting read to say the least, but maybe the purpose of this in the first place was to honor the 3000 who lost their lives that day 11 years ago (thread title! - 9-11-11 - as in 11 years since the event, before it was changed) instead of all what went on, but this is a place for discussion after all. We've all had a say on what was essentially a very black day for our country. RIP once again to the 3000 who lost their lives
Yeah fair comment. We do seem to have ended up just ranting about Islam rather than paying tribute to the 9/11 victims.
I guess someone should start a separate thread titled 'Muslims wind me right up' or 'Why I don't give a toss about your infantile beliefs' or something.
Of course be prepared for the 'religion of peace's' adherents to kidnap you, hack your head off and post it on YouTube - which of course we are not entitled to take offence over otherwise we are racist Nazis.
It can also be 70 old nuns. :D
Or...
Wow, let's talk! :O
I'm not a leftie in any way (my girlfriend is sitting next to me right now laughing her brains out at the mere thought of me being associated with left-wing ideas :D) and nor am I saying that stating objections to Muslim madness makes one a Nazi. I'm merely pointing out that the more they agitate, the bigger the chance that some groups will organise themselves and get ballistic. I use the term Nazi because in my very own country I know of such movements that constantly preach violent 'Chrystal Night' attacks on Muslim families. Seriously, I don't want that either. Terror doesn't solve terror.
I don't like the spread of Islam through the West any more than I like the spread of specific groups of Christians in the USA who bible up to attack the very foundations of modern science. I don't like any religious extremism for that matter.
The only thing that can help is to allow the next generations of Muslims to open up to modern ages and shed off those restrictive rules they so proudly yet so numbly cling to. Violence doesn't help a darn thing.
Nah, nuns have no fun.
@Dimi- I'm with you on religious extremism. It's a sad commentary when certain people look in supposed "holy books" for reasons to be aggressive and negative. Christians and Muslims are equally guilty of allowing material that incites violence to remain in these books, instead of taking steps to eradicate these messages and re-educating their masses. Whether it's an imam in Saudi Arabia, or a fundamentalist preacher in the bible belt, the masses who claim to be against this sure don't seem to be taking nearly enough steps to remove these people from positions of influence.
In recent times, Belgian newspapers have been reporting endlessly on an increase in Muslim boys' aggression towards homosexuals and lightly dressed women. Now we read that all it takes is a bit of mocking towards a religious symbol and suddenly we find Muslims burning up American flags and embassies, killing American state officials and calmly stating in front of a camera that anyone who insults their Prophet quite simply needs to die. :O
Call me a SciFi romantic but right now we should be trying to explore space, master nuclear fusion, get united to combat nature's big challenges for future generations, build colonies on the moon, Mars, ... Instead, we are faced with this:
"No-one likes my religion so I has to kill every-one!"
Glad the West is taking the high road. If we took the road of these calm murderers, we could easily say "Every one of our people that gets hurt, we'll drop some bombs and kill a thousand of yours". By our way of thinking, unwarranted and irrational and I wouldn't want to see that. But I fear they'd do that to the West for every provocation if they had the ability to do so. It seems force and violence are the only messages these people understand.
Back to 9/11, we should never forget those innocent people who died. In the county where I live, where quite a few victims came from, there is a garden of reflection memorial about 2 miles from my office. Every day I see the sign and am reminded of what we lost in human lives as well as the loss of personal freedoms in the way of increased and invasive security measures. Americans now don't even trust their own in the wake of the Richard Reid's and native born Muslims who find reasons to turn on their homeland that gave them life and freedom because some bitter goat herder of equally questionable morals and brainpower incites them over the Internet. Some teenager tries to detonate a car bomb in Chicago. 18 freaking years old! Unreal.
Yep this photo pretty much sums it all up.
Religion is just an infantile comfort blanket to people who cant face up to the reality of mortality and sould be treated as such. There wont be an end to all this fighting until we can eradicate this cancer of the mind and end up more like Sweden where religion is treated as the irrelevance it is and around 80% profess to have no faith at all. Are the high standards of living and low crime rates here a conincidence? Go anywhere with a high rate of poverty and crime and you always find a high proportion of people who believe in some sort of faith.
Sorry to brand you a lefty Darth old chap but you do seem to advocating something close to the current failing policy of appeasment.
Isnt it time to say all this engaging with Islam has not worked? Instead of constantly saying we should attempt to understand and be tolerant isnt it about time we said that they are out of order and its about time they sorted themselves out.
To quote Michael Madsen to M - 'Put your house in order or we'll do it for you' - seems to me a more reasonable policy than constantly just letting them continue with their tantrums whenever it suits them.
The government should be putting pressure on Muslim leaders to reign in the 'minority' by pulling the funding for all their handouts for mosque extensions or prayer centres rather than just lazily blaming the fanatical minority which just doesnt cut it anymore.
Islam proves time and again that it doesn’t fit these times either. Comedy, for instance, whether tasteful or not, is a basic element of modern society. Through comedy, one can achieve self-awareness and acknowledge one's fundamental flaws. Responding so aggressively to comedy is a testament of how flawed one really is and how unable one is to deal with said flaws. That, by itself, is dangerous! For if one cannot accept the notion that there are things one still has to work on, dysfunctional elements that cripple the system and endanger peace on this planet, one succumbs to the worst human feature: a feeling of superiority. Such a feeling only leads to a vast disrespect for human life outside the very own communities and a particular ease with which one wishes to exterminate that life.
I can only conclude that Islam in its current form and as represented by some of its more hardcore fractions, is ‘wrong’ both in time and space. It’s not the only religion to be in that boat, but right now it’s the most aggressive and ridiculously hardheaded by far. I don’t want it replaced by an equally militant and foolishly stubborn version of Christianity either (which is why I place thick question marks on the bible belt) – if anything, I would rather see any communal form of religion abolished. I’m tired of the intellectual setbacks they forcefully impose on entire groups of people, I’m sick of this constant threat of religion based wars, I’ve had enough of this constant provocation of provocative responses to prevocational actions… if you catch my drift. Let’s not be idiotic about it. This so-called anti-Islam film that started a fuss swiftly blown out of proportion wouldn’t have seen the light of day in the first place, hadn’t the makers known for sure that they would stir up a wasp’s nest. Anyone who dreams of making such a film understands the consequences. It’s not even twisted logic to state that by being so moronically proud of their barbaric principles, Islamic fundamentalists virtually invite reactionary folks to walk this path. And despite the tragic loss of life we’ve had to sustain over these issues in the past few days, I hope such provocations will never cease to exist. It’s important for Islam to realize that this is the future they better get used to; that we will not be frightened into silence; and it’s important for them to understand that the more they behave like this, the more they will isolate themselves, the more radical stances against them will be taken throughout the world and the more they themselves turn Islam into a joke.
Kevin Smith made Dogma, much to the annoyance of Christians in America. But it hardly ever went beyond simple and modest protest. I never took any insult from that film, in fact I love it. While I consider myself a Christian, I’m also a huge admirer of the writings of Isaac Asimov, who has throughout his entire life been very vocal about his antireligious ideas. I think it’s important to both mock and question specific aspects of my life because in doing so I constantly challenge myself to reconsider them and make sure I don’t sink too deep into firm and rigid thoughts that are, essentially, unscientific and therefore cannot be related to any form of truth, logic or even validity in a broader sense.
In a little over a decade, Islam has shown us more of its dark sides than ever before. The free world is slowly absorbing this madness, rather quietly at this point, but the more they shake our patience, the more we gravitate towards intolerance. At this point and after this pointless bloodshed, I’m beginning to lose my patience as well. My profession, however, urges me to be careful about what I say and write so I think it best to stop talking about this subject now, but be sure that I do feel at an unease for what the future may bring and that as I stated before, I don’t want it to come as far I think it might.
Amen to that Sir.
You are certainly on message this time - I might spare you from being put against the wall come the revolution!! :)>-
(hidden for language)
LOL
Yeah, Muslims - if you enjoy living in the middle ages then why cant you just follow the example set by the Amish?