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I was wondering what became of the data regarding the bottom-5 lists. Although, I might be able to answer my own question, ie that data simply makes for a different list - that being the percentage of times a film appeared in a bottom-5 list, which could be much different than the inverse of the other list.
Yes, for sure the site is going to attract a ton of visitors who are simply Bond-curious or looking for news or archival material, as opposed to being invested in discussion. So as a result we learn that GF, CR etc turn up on a lot of top-5 lists. An interesting approach to polling, as it does shake things up a bit, and provides some new data, as any breakdown of actual 1-22 ranking lists that I've seen, here or elsewhere, always puts FRWL handily in first place. My main beef with CR is that it could have done a lot more with the Fleming source material. Far more of the book could have been saved and fleshed out. But otherwise it works as a stylish spy thriller with lots of action.
It reinvigorated the series and added a new mix to that formula. Change is sometimes good, and after DAD, it was needed.
I agree that in retrospect Die Another Day was a disappointment, but I didn't think it was necessary to make so many changes to the formula.
A similar situation faced the franchise after the lackluster financial performance of License to Kill and struggles with MGM. However, instead of "rebooting" the franchise (which unfortunately seems to be the craze now) they made Goldeneye which was easily Brosnan's best film, and probably the best since TSWLM. It introduced us to a modern-day, more fast-paced and action-oriented Bond, but it still held true to the classic Bond formula.
QOS exposed some of the flaws of making so many changes to the franchise.
I hereby reject any list that has Thunderball last, Dr No third from the bottom and Die Another in the Top 15.
On the Mi6 poll of top-5 placings though, TB scores a respectable 7th.
Told ya. Either GE or CR I said.
Like I said on another thread, DAD being thought of as a favourite takes away any credibility from this, and also proves Facebook is full of kids/teenagers who will just vote for what's recent, including DAD.
My point exactly. Should a film that (potentially) just scraped in at number 5 in the majority of peoples lists do better than films that (again potentially) finished with lots of position number 1 nominations? But just didnt feature in as many lists?
In theory you could have 99 people who all put FRWL 1 and CR 5 and then 1 insane guy who for whatever reason hated FRWL and had DAD at number one and CR 5.
That would mean CR finished ahead of FRWL due to appearing 100 times to 99 despite 99% of the people who voted rating FRWL above it.
Not saying that CR is not necessarily a deserving winner just that this is a deeply flawed system.
If title of the poll was changed to 'The Bond Film With The Most Appearances In Someones Top 5' then I wouldnt have a problem.
That seems like a fairer way of doing it.
Absolutely.
The fact that DAD hasnt finished bottom by a mile is also a massive anomaly. GF so high and MR bottom seem more like the typical populist poll you get in magazines from people who think they know what they are talking about. The sort of people who think they are being revolutionary and going out on a limb by saying 'actually OHMSS isnt a bad film.'
From reading peoples posts on here over the years I'm certain that DAD would finish last by miles and GF somewhere round about the Europa League places at best.
All those films are in my top 5 too.
1. From Russia with Love
2. OHMSS
3. Goldfinger
4. Casino Royale
5. Goldeneye
And anything other than QoS or DAD being bottom is a big shock.
Still, it would be boring if we all agreed
No, CR is just THAT great. B-)
1) Ridiculous action scenes with near impossible stunts (see: parkour chase, Miami airport scene, Bond flipping the Aston)
2) Villain with an unlikely but notable physical deformity (see: Le Chiffre)
3) An Aston Martin
4) A vodka martini (drank and mentioned)
5) Sadism (see: the torture scene, Bond blowing up the terrorist at the airport etc.)
6) A reference to a ridiculous Bond girl name (see: Stephanie Broadchest)
7) Gambling in a Casino (duh)
8) Bond seducing a girl he's just met simply for information (see: Solange)
8a) The mentioned girl biting the dust
9) Flirting with a hot hotel receptionist (Moore did it all the time) (see: "But if I felt compelled to find him...")
10) A traitor (albeit a little different than the likes of Elektra and company)
Not sure if I missed any, but I hope my point comes across.
But we have seen before, on that list in question, other absurdities such as Moonraker at the very bottom, Octopussy in the bottom three and On Her Majestys Secret Service in the top four was it ?
Simply can't read too much into it
I really hope for your sake youre a troll otherwise the best hope for you is to call Dignitas.
Absolutely Brady. Are you really saying you prefer the relentless pointless action overkill of QOS Baltimore?
'Pretty mundane' card games? Well for me a lot of Flemings best pieces are gambling scenes and although this might not translate well to the screen (the MR bridge game for example would be difficult to film) I think Campbell pulls it off pretty well in CR. I certainly find the poker scenes far more engaging than the Miami sequence.
The fact that DAD hasnt finished bottom by a mile is also a massive anomaly. GF so high and MR bottom seem more like the typical populist poll you get in magazines from people who think they know what they are talking about. The sort of people who think they are being revolutionary and going out on a limb by saying 'actually OHMSS isnt a bad film.'
From reading peoples posts on here over the years I'm certain that DAD would finish last by miles and GF somewhere round about the Europa League places at best.
Hey Wizard aka Troll. Over the years Die Another Day has always been love/hate on forums. As you see it finished top 8 in the global james bond "Best" Bond Film Poll last week. The people that loathe it like you dont mention how good the precredit sequence is. They only say "waahhh wahhh this movie isnt realistic". Yah and the fact that James Bond is still ALIVE from all these adventures is???? Flying car in TMWTGG. This is a movie; its not based on a true story troll. Get over yourself. BTW Goldfinger is the third best BOND FILM behind Live and Let Die and GOLDENEYE. You tell me the first 40 minutes of OHMSS is awesome and you're a liar.
Bond gets captured and tortured, swans into a hotel in his PJs and gets the best suite, the Cuba stuff feels 60s, he tracks the villian down and has an awesome sword fight, etc.
The only real flaw with the first half is when Jinx talks. But then it falls apart once it reaches Iceland, which is a shame.
Calm down, mate. This is the kind of attitude new members are expected to drop at the door.
Hey Obrady, Im not the one calling people trolls because 9 of their top 10 favorite Bonds were in the top 11 of this poll....... (5 favorite-5 least favorite)
This is what I got from a non new member:
I really hope for your sake youre a troll otherwise the best hope for you is to call Dignitas.
DAD? Really? Really?
MI6's list is better
Well for a first post it was a bit of a bold gambit to come out defending DAD at the expense of OHMSS hence my assumption that you were just trolling to get a rise out of people. Shame on me I suppose for reacting but I cant be letting people get away with such drivel - I've got my reputation to think of. Apologies for calling you a troll but I'd rather be called that than a DAD lover.
Anyway all that notwithstanding lets address your points in turn:
1. Which forums have you been on? DAD ones? Because round here theres not much love and more than a little hate.
2. What poll are you talking about exactly? One in the Sun? The MI6 poll on this very site mystifyingly rates DAD at 20 which is still far too high. As such I dont give any credence to polls where the general public are encouraged to vote if a poll of Bond fans cant get it right.
3. I'll be the first to admit that the PTS is by far the best part of DAD but that doesnt make it 'amazing' and the contention that it is the second best of all just exposes you as not having much of a clue. Just off the top of my head GF, TSWLM, MR, OP, TLD, TND, TWINE and CR blow it out of the water and thats before we even start arguing the merits of FRWL, TB, OHMSS, FYEO, LTK and QOS. I'll give you its certainly better than YOLT, DAF, LALD, TMWTGG but the rest are certainly arguable.
The initial surfing stunt is impressive (I havent really got a problem with Bond surfing - hes an expert at every other sport after all) but after that its a fairly lazy by the numbers sequence by Vic Armstrong. As others have said before me it feels like one of those choreographed stunt shows you get at Universal Studios. This is particularly evident when Moons hovercraft hits Bonds and makes it turn onto its side - this looks very unnatural and faked and just seems like it is on pistons and can be repeated take after take and that just erases any sense of danger at all.
4. I'll agree with you that the first act of OHMSS is a little slow but we still have a decent PTS, Laz lighting up in the casino, fight in the hotel room, 'Hmm - Royal Beluga, North of the Caspian', the scene where hes kidnapped by Dracos hoods, the Gumbold safe cracking sequence, scene with M at Quarterdeck. Actually what on earth am I saying - of course I dont agree with you.
The slower first act of the film merely serves as a crescendo to the epic rest of the film. And besides even the 'I have taught you to love chickens' speech is less cringeworthy than every word uttered by Jinx.
Welcome to the forums by the way but I think its probably best if we go our separate ways from here as you clearly have an idea of Bond that is somewhat divorced (to say the least!) from mine and I consider it unlikely we will ever be in accord on anything.
In all seriousness though if you really do think DAD is a better film than OHMSS then at least check out the Dignitas website or give the Samaritans a bell.
DAD has a billion more great scenes than OHMSS. OHMSS is the 19th best Bond film out of 23 Bonds. DAD is 4th. OHMSS had cool music when Blofeld was chasing them down the mountain and the woodchipper scene was cool too. Too little too late folks. 5th worst Bond film. Guess a lot of you dont like good action scenes and beastful henchmen like ZAO. QOS has bad action scenes and stupid chases with bad villains and henchmen. I cant name a henchmen from that movie.
DAD has a way better PTS than Goldfinger. He electrocutes a guy in the shower in a hotel room. Hmmm maybe you are the one with no clue.
There is no 'guy' in a shower in the pre credits of Goldfinger, unless it's a quote from above. The character 'Capungo', tries to take out Connery from behind but falls into a bath and is electrocuted when Bond throws in a electric fan, but I will say for sure, that Die Another Day, with it's hovercrafts in Korea, is a far better intro, and one of the best of the last 20 years. Pity about the subsequent movie though
I'm not even going to pay attention to most of your drivel as its way too infantile and bereft of anything approaching a coherent argument for me to deign to address in any detail.
I'll just point out that in that link you are hanging your entire argument on it actually states the following:
'Other favourite Bond films voted by the fans include GOLDFINGER, GOLDENEYE, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE, THE SPY WHO LOVED ME, and DIE ANOTHER DAY'
This is utterly meaningless. Apart from CR at number 1 there is absolutely no indication of the positions of the other films. Its just a list of some Bond films that some of the fans voted for.
They could have equally said:
'Other favourite Bond films voted by the fans include DN, TND, MR, DAF, LALD, QOS and TB'
All they are really saying is 'CR came top but some people voted for some of the other films.'
For all we know from this DAD could be 2nd and OHMSS last or vice versa.
Thanks to Baltimore for saving me having to bother pointing out that you look a fool if you accuse someone of not having a clue but dont even know the difference between a bath and a shower.
(Although Baltimore you are very wrong when you say the DAD PTS is better than GFs which pretty much has it all and is the template that helped get us to 50 years).