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The Bourne Legacy's impact on Skyfall

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,713
    Should I remind that on MI6forums, after DAD in 2003, nearly every members, even Luds, wanted Brosnan to do a 5th outing. Had EON worked faster and better, and B21 be great with Brosnan, no-one would question if it would have been better that Bond #7 debute in 2006 instead of 2009.

    You say a retool/reboot/etc was needed after DAD... Please remind yourselves that a huge majority of us wanted a 5th Brosnan outing. If Pierce's B21 be a great outing, and released in 2005, no-one would question if Brosnan needed to go after DAD.

    It's easy for us, after the success of CR, to say "Yes, that retool was neccessary... After DAD it was evident a reboot/recast was in order". But simply remember that we, almost unanimously, wanted Brosnan to return for a 5th outing.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    You're right DC, I also wanted Brosnan to return for a 5th outing and still think its a shame he didn't leave under different circumstances. However I hadn't read CR at that point. Since then I have and I can understand why the need to re-cast/tone down the "silliness" was perhaps necessary.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited June 2011 Posts: 1,986
    Should I remind that on MI6forums, after DAD in 2003, nearly every members, even Luds, wanted Brosnan to do a 5th outing.
    What on earth are you smoking? The only mention of wanting Brosnan to carry on was if an even worse actor was to be cast, aka Hugh Jackman who was in the news at the time. I wanted Brosnan out for a large amount of actors. Get your story straight DC.
  • JamesBondJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    @thelordflasheart
    Well, the most memorial shaky cam was taken place when Bond was recovering his injures in the bathroom after having fight with Obanno.

    As for romancing Vesper, he was trying hard to seduce her. But, the classic Bond just can magnetize the Bond Girl with a blink of an eye. They don't even know how to create the "oh, James" romantic scene in the finale (or they're not even trying, because in Bourne films, happy ending won't exist except the first one).

    @PanchitoPistoles
    Please, be nice next time. I always know what I say.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    @thelordflasheart

    As for romancing Vesper, he was trying hard to seduce her. But, the classic Bond just can magnetize the Bond Girl with a blink of an eye. They don't even know how to create the "oh, James" romantic scene in the finale (or they're not even trying, because in Bourne films, happy ending won't exist except the first one).

    I think that was one of the criticisms Bond was getting in the past. The whole womanising "oh James" thing was getting rather unbeliveable (although ironically the last time that line was uttered was in TLD). Also, in the original books, Bond didn't always get a happy ending for himself even if he did save the world. I do agree though that Craig does deserve a happy ending for B23.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Should I remind that on MI6forums, after DAD in 2003, nearly every members, even Luds, wanted Brosnan to do a 5th outing.
    What on earth are you smoking? The only mention of wanting Brosnan to carry on was if an even worse actor was to be cast, aka Hugh Jackman who was in the news at the time. I wanted Brosnan out for a large amount of actors. Get your story straight DC.
    I have read the 2003 posts of MI6forums enough time to know that nearly everyone wanted Brosnan back instead of recasting after DAD. Since the posts are gone, I can't prove anything. But please remember that you were keen to the idea of Brosnan returning.

    Just because now the success of Craig and CR means we can all say "Brosnan needed to go... it was the right decision.... a reboot was necessary", doesn't mean we can rewrite the history of what we wanted...

    So, maybe you, Luds, prefered Brosnan only if a worse actor was cast... But that doesn't change the fact that 95% of the old forums wanted Brosnan back.
  • JamesBondJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    Should I remind that on MI6forums, after DAD in 2003, nearly every members, even Luds, wanted Brosnan to do a 5th outing.
    What on earth are you smoking? The only mention of wanting Brosnan to carry on was if an even worse actor was to be cast, aka Hugh Jackman who was in the news at the time. I wanted Brosnan out for a large amount of actors. Get your story straight DC.
    I have read the 2003 posts of MI6forums enough time to know that nearly everyone wanted Brosnan back instead of recasting after DAD. Since the posts are gone, I can't prove anything. But please remember that you were keen to the idea of Brosnan returning.

    Just because now the success of Craig and CR means we can all say "Brosnan needed to go... it was the right decision.... a reboot was necessary", doesn't mean we can rewrite the history of what we wanted...

    So, maybe you, Luds, prefered Brosnan only if a worse actor was cast... But that doesn't change the fact that 95% of the old forums wanted Brosnan back.
    I also want Brosnan back, but unfortunately, he's old, now. He missed his chance.
    McClory, before he died was trying to remake Thunderball again, renamed to "Warhead 2000". I've heard both Liam Neeson and Dalton were considered for the role. I would have loved to see Dalton back to the field. Also, it was possible to see Brosnan in there. But, I also heard that EON and MGM had sued McClory and EON is give exclusive rights to make 007 films. So, I don't think we'll see them, again.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited June 2011 Posts: 1,986
    So, maybe you, Luds, prefered Brosnan only if a worse actor was cast... But that doesn't change the fact that 95% of the old forums wanted Brosnan back.
    Memory has started to fail you my friend. As soon as DAD released, there were large numbers of people who were very disappointed with the direction and wanted a change, granted, all the newies who grew up with Brosnan loved DAD as well. A few month after I joined in early 2003 the biggest threads on the forum were the "next Bond" actor threads, like the Owen vs. Jackman, etc who grew to 27 odd pages in a few months. There was already a sense that Brosnan was too old, you may be right that the majority wanted him to stay, or not, but to claim that 95% wanted him back is bit ridiculous. I'd max it out at 75%, but by the constant locking of threads about this topic and the activity in them, out of those 75%, an easy 25% was only in for a single more.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    In fairness I do recall DC pulling up an old thread with a lot of people saying that Brosnan should come back and do another one. It seememd that more people wanted him back than didn't lets put it that way.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    @BAIN123 - yes, but again, 95% = 19/20. That's just ridiculous.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Alright.... Maybe not 95%... Perhaps 75% is more accurate.
  • chuck007chuck007
    Posts: 172
    after seeing CR and QOS, are there anyone want to see Brosnan back, NOW?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,160
    Let's just say there are still a few Craig-not-Bonders around, although I doubt many of them hang out with us here on HQ.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2011 Posts: 15,713
    I love Craig as an actor, but hate his Bond and his 2 movies with a passion... But I still believe they can correct the wrongs for B23.
    after seeing CR and QOS, are there anyone want to see Brosnan back, NOW?
    No, but I still believe Brosnan could have lasted 1/2 movies longer, and would have prefered that.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,160
    I love Craig as an actor, but hate his Bond and his 2 movies with a passion... But I still believe they can correct the wrongs for B23.
    after seeing CR and QOS, are there anyone want to see Brosnan back, NOW?
    No, but I still believe Brosnan could have lasted 1/2 movies longer, and would have prefered that.
    I don't agree, DC, my good friend. Just a matter of personal preferences of course but once I discovered the Craig Bond, I was through with Brosnan. Craig's Bond is exactly what I needed and got in 2006 and I hope he'll stick around a few more years. He's different yet in my humble opinion he does superbly well as Bond.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I like Craig but haven't yet "warmed" to him as Bond (sorry Chuck). I only grew to like CR on subsequent viewings and people on here know my feelings on the bland quantum.

    Btw I was NEVER a Craig-not-Bonder. I just feel uncertain about where the franchise is heading. I hope Sam Mendes AND Daniel Craig remember the franchise is meant to be fun, not a dour depressing experience. Hopefully that won't happen. :)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 13,355
    I just feel uncertain about where the franchise is heading.
    From interviews with Craig I've been watching recently he seems to really like the idea of having emotional depth in his Bond films, as for him he says it makes a film more involving and enjoyable, so adds to the film. This is also according to him "the kind of movies I like to make". He's also hinted at this to be trend as long as he is Bond as well as little or few gags, or no gags at least as some of them were becuase again, this isn't the type of actor he is and says he can't seem himself doing that (the gags from some of the Moore for example).

    So I think a film that follows on the tone of the last two along with some more traditional elements could be what we'll get - along with Bond tracking down Quantum of course.

    And yes, I'm looking for those videos now and I'll post them here when I find them, as although from around Quantum Of Solace's release, they raise some interesting points about where these next films may go.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I have no problem with a bit of depth and less cheesiness but I just hope the director of revolutionary road makes them well...entertaining and not too depressing in tone.

    Even if I do prefer Craig more in the future Brosnan will always have a special place in my heart.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Craig on the gags, from 3:50 onwards:

  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370

    I don't agree, DC, my good friend. Just a matter of personal preferences of course but once I discovered the Craig Bond, I was through with Brosnan. Craig's Bond is exactly what I needed and got in 2006 and I hope he'll stick around a few more years.
    DarthDimi, once I saw CR there was an immediate retroactive diminishment of Brosnan in my mind. Not to bash him - I liked him in the role when he played it and am grateful for how he helped the franchise - it's just that once I saw what an actor like Craig could do with the role my jaw hit the floor.

    My immediate reaction to CR was the same as LTK - I really liked it but there was a weird feeling because it was so "different". My friend loved it immediately - the two things he said that stuck out to me were "It's like they finally made a Bond movie for adults!" (as opposed to 12 year old boys) and "This is the Bond film I've waited my whole life for". I saw CR a second time (this time with him) and since I knew what was coming the shock of it seeming "different" was gone and I could concentrate on the film as a film. After that viewing CR became my favourite Bond film. And one of the most important reasons for that is Craig. To quote a line from my favourite review of CR "For the first time since watching Connery as a kid, I watched a Bond film and thought 'I want to be that guy!'".

    He's different yet in my humble opinion he does superbly well as Bond.
    The thing that a lot of people who don't like Craig seem to forget is that every actor stamps the role with his own style and interpretation. Seriously, Connery and Moore's versions of Bond are really different. There are obviously some similarities - it's based on the same root character - but there are a LOT of things that are different. And think of how different Moore was from Lazenby - and Lazenby from Brosnan, and Brosnan from Dalton, etc.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Yes, CR is more adult-orientated than the Brosnan films, but it was still mainly made for the kids - 12 minutes long Miami action scene, end battle in Venice...
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    Craig on the gags, from 3:50 onwards:

    Well, it seems very clear from this interview that Craig is talking about a "cartoonish" portrayal of Bond and "slapstick" in the films...elements that I'm perfectly happy to leave behind. As I said in another thread I'm surprised at people forgetting how much humour there was in CR...it was serious but by no means dour.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 13,355
    Though there are better that I'm yet to dig up, at around 3:50 is something about the "depth" that Craig wants in his films:



    I think with this ethos we at least have the potential for some great films with Craig in the future - let's see what happens now.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    It was maybe wrong to say I didn't like CR when I first saw it. It was more a case of uncertainty. I only liked it more on my subsequent viewings.

    Quantum I've always thought the same thing - something's missing.

    I can't recall ever "wanting" to be Craig's Bond though.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    After QoS even Craig must have wished that the movie was Brosnan's 5th. :-D
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 13,355
    After QoS even Craig must have wished that the movie was Brosnan's 5th. :-D
    I'd just rather write that off as Craig's weakest and move on to, hopefully, better things. Now is not to time for us or EON to miss what Daniel Craig can offer to this series in the long term.

    And another Brosnan film in 2008? Nah! ;-)
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    After QoS even Craig must have wished that the movie was Brosnan's 5th. :-D
    I'd just rather write that off as Craig's weakest and move on to, hopefully, better things. Now is not to time for us or EON to miss what Daniel Craig can offer to this series in the long term.

    And another Brosnan film in 2008? Nah! ;-)
    It was just me joking how lousy QoS actually is, and how sad it is how it was this that actually followed the pretty decent first movie of DC.

    In my view the 007 years of Brosnan are over. Would have loved to see him ending his run in a swansong like FYEO after MR. Too bad it didn't happen.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2011 Posts: 13,355
    After QoS even Craig must have wished that the movie was Brosnan's 5th. :-D
    I'd just rather write that off as Craig's weakest and move on to, hopefully, better things. Now is not to time for us or EON to miss what Daniel Craig can offer to this series in the long term.

    And another Brosnan film in 2008? Nah! ;-)
    It was just me joking how lousy QoS actually is, and how sad it is how it was this that actually followed the pretty decent first movie of DC.
    Well yes but thankfully there is plenty of time to put that right.
    In my view the 007 years of Brosnan are over. Would have loved to see him ending his run in a swansong like FYEO after MR. Too bad it didn't happen.
    I'd have liked that too. Brosnan got the worst of it and doubt we'll ever go there again. It had to happen to someone and Brosnan was the one.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Very interesting interview there Samuel, it certainly seems that Craig is passionate about the part and fair play to him. He's also right about the "gags". Whilst he doesn't have the ability or the desire to deliver gags like Connery, Moore or Brosnan, he can do lighter humour (i.e. "that last hand, nearly killed me").
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    @thelordflasheart
    Well, the most memorial shaky cam was taken place when Bond was recovering his injures in the bathroom after having fight with Obanno.

    As for romancing Vesper, he was trying hard to seduce her. But, the classic Bond just can magnetize the Bond Girl with a blink of an eye. They don't even know how to create the "oh, James" romantic scene in the finale (or they're not even trying, because in Bourne films, happy ending won't exist except the first one).

    @PanchitoPistoles
    Please, be nice next time. I always know what I say.
    JamesBond - again, I will have to respectfully disagree with you. Firstly, Bond recovering in the bathroom after the Obanno fight wasn't even "shakycam", it was handheld - a technique long used to show disorientation, fatigue, the after effects of a draining or traumatic experience. It was in place long before Bourne. When someone complains about copying Bourne's shakycam method I expect that they are talking about the fight scenes or chase scenes. There was no such thing in CR.

    As for Bond being able to "magnetize the Bond Girl with a blink of an eye" he does pretty much that with Solange (and there are the two female tennis players checking him out at the Ocean Club)! However, I do agree that the whole "Oh, James!" and falling into his arms thing is so over-done that it would be self-parody if they were to try it again (not to mention that you could insult the females who might buy tickets). I must admit that when I was 11 years old and living vicariously through Bond the whole "seduce every woman with a blink of the eye" thing was powerful wish fulfillment. But now I would just find it cheesy and embarassing.

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