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'Skyfall' best of the Original Screenplay Bond films? [A comparison]

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  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    @echo If it is then LTK has much more Bond feeling than QOS. The only real Fleming material in QOS was the title (and that was terrible).

    Have you actually read the short Fleming story 'Quantum Of Solace'?
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    I also want to discuss something else that comes to the core of the topic title really. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is better than 'Casino Royale' for another reason. Whereas 'Casino Royale' is in my opinion a near perfect modern day adaptation of Fleming's novel is excellent, I find it from a creative perspective harder, more challenging to come up with a complete original screenplay that feels like a true adaptation of a Fleming novel. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is a movie from which the actual source material could have been written by the late Ian Fleming himself. And that's not the case. All the crew behind 'Skyfall', especially the Bond producers and the screenplay writers, did such an exemplary study of Ian Fleming's Bond, that I find 'Skyfall' a true masterpiece. Even more so than 'Casino Royale'. Here, I said it.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    @echo If it is then LTK has much more Bond feeling than QOS. The only real Fleming material in QOS was the title (and that was terrible).

    Have you actually read the short Fleming story 'Quantum Of Solace'?

    No I haven't read it, I'll admit, but what I've heard of it sounds completely different to the film. The short story if I remember right was about Bond being told a story at a dinner party.

    LTK had lots of stuff from LALD that wasn't used in the film. It apparently has some stuff from one of the short stories too but I haven't read it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    @echo If it is then LTK has much more Bond feeling than QOS. The only real Fleming material in QOS was the title (and that was terrible).

    Have you actually read the short Fleming story 'Quantum Of Solace'?

    No I haven't read it, I'll admit, but what I've heard of it sounds completely different to the film. The short story if I remember right was about Bond being told a story at a dinner party.

    LTK had lots of stuff from LALD that wasn't used in the film. It apparently has some stuff from one of the short stories too but I haven't read it.

    The character Milton Krest is taken from The Hildebrand Rarity. They adapted his character although some of the traits are still there. He was more of a presence in the book who viciously beat his wife.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    With rare exceptions (TSWLM), the more Fleming, the better the film. And even in that film, the Tracy moment is a standout.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    How would Ian Fleming react if he sees all these Crazy Bond nerds like us....And how would have reacted if he was still alive, seeing 'Skyfall'?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited December 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    And how would have reacted if he was still alive, seeing 'Skyfall'?

    I don't think he would like it. And this isn't an insult to SF, it's an insult to Fleming more than anything else.

    He wouldn't like any Bond film really. Even DN, which is thought of now as one of the closest to Fleming, he didn't like. He disagreed with Connerys casting so imagine how he would've reacted to Moore or Craig.

    He'd have liked the money but the films themselves? I don't think he would've liked them.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    And how would have reacted if he was still alive, seeing 'Skyfall'?

    I don't think he would like it. And this isn't an insult to SF, it's an insult to Fleming more than anything else.

    He wouldn't like any Bond film really. Even DN, which is thought of now as one of the closest to Fleming, he didn't like. He disagreed with Connerys casting so imagine how he would've reacted to Moore or Craig.

    He'd have liked the money but the films themselves? I don't think he would've liked them.

    I think he would maybe have enjoyed SF, probably more than most other films. It is very British, very patriotic, Scottish heritage, and it is one of only 2 Bond films were it shows Bond in a slightly depressed state over his profession (the other being TLD). I have a feeling SF would have struck a chord with him.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    it is one of only 2 Bond films were it shows Bond in a slightly depressed state over his profession (the other being TLD).

    OHMSS.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    echo wrote:
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    it is one of only 2 Bond films were it shows Bond in a slightly depressed state over his profession (the other being TLD).

    OHMSS.
    Other than the final tragic scene, which is more Bond in a state of shock than anything else, I don't see the bitterness of the profession that Craig and Dalton both embody in their movies. Plus, Lazenby wasn't as good an actor to pull off such convincing scenes either.

    Besides which, Fleming would probably have had massive issues with an Auzzie playing his 007...... ;)
  • MtwalumeDeMtwalumeDe
    Posts: 1
    I think since Ian Fleming passed on, the current screen play writers have missed the plot totally.
    It is the 21st century and with all the technology available, is that all they have to offer? It's a pity that 007 no longer has gadgets to operate with and doesn't get into rather ridiculous sticky situations as he was once used to. Try to find a screen play writer with a little more imagination please.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited June 2013 Posts: 12,837
    jetsetwilly wrote:
    I think he would maybe have enjoyed SF, probably more than most other films. It is very British, very patriotic, Scottish heritage, and it is one of only 2 Bond films were it shows Bond in a slightly depressed state over his profession (the other being TLD). I have a feeling SF would have struck a chord with him.

    It also has an Aston Martin with machine guns, a black Moneypenny, a woman playing M, a Bond who looks nothing like his original creation, etc.

    I don't think Fleming would've liked it as much as the rest of us.
  • Sammm04Sammm04
    Posts: 479
    I would say TSWLM, but Skyfall is definitely close.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    In answer to the OP, well, let's face it, it wouldn't be too hard given some of the content of the other original screenplays in the James Bond film series.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    MtwalumeDe wrote:
    I think since Ian Fleming passed on, the current screen play writers have missed the plot totally.
    It is the 21st century and with all the technology available, is that all they have to offer? It's a pity that 007 no longer has gadgets to operate with and doesn't get into rather ridiculous sticky situations as he was once used to. Try to find a screen play writer with a little more imagination please.

    Fleming passed away in 1964. How does that have any effect on the 'current screenplay writers'? Also, big, ridiculous situations with gizmo gadgets isn't what Fleming wrote for Bond. Read one of the books.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I also want to discuss something else that comes to the core of the topic title really. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is better than 'Casino Royale' for another reason. Whereas 'Casino Royale' is in my opinion a near perfect modern day adaptation of Fleming's novel is excellent, I find it from a creative perspective harder, more challenging to come up with a complete original screenplay that feels like a true adaptation of a Fleming novel. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is a movie from which the actual source material could have been written by the late Ian Fleming himself. And that's not the case. All the crew behind 'Skyfall', especially the Bond producers and the screenplay writers, did such an exemplary study of Ian Fleming's Bond, that I find 'Skyfall' a true masterpiece. Even more so than 'Casino Royale'. Here, I said it.

    I think that you are very mistaken, Fleming would not have written this characters-are-more-important-than-a-logic-story. At his shabbiest he could not invent such awefull storyline that did it best to not involve any continuety and left it up the fanboys to make up for it.
    Bond gets shot twice and then falls of a bridge mortally wounded and a few months on he walks into the home of his boss, on whom just an terrorist attack did happen. He then gets lovingly be taken back into the family of MI6. Even Fleming did know better than that as he proved in TMWTGG...... (but Mendes was perhaps desperate to show how original he was while trhowing any sense of reality overboard)

    If anybody considers SF a great original treatment you are simply blinded by Craiglove. In my humble opinion GE made far more sense and had a far better Flemingesque approach than most of the original Craig screenplays.

  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    SaintMark wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I also want to discuss something else that comes to the core of the topic title really. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is better than 'Casino Royale' for another reason. Whereas 'Casino Royale' is in my opinion a near perfect modern day adaptation of Fleming's novel is excellent, I find it from a creative perspective harder, more challenging to come up with a complete original screenplay that feels like a true adaptation of a Fleming novel. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is a movie from which the actual source material could have been written by the late Ian Fleming himself. And that's not the case. All the crew behind 'Skyfall', especially the Bond producers and the screenplay writers, did such an exemplary study of Ian Fleming's Bond, that I find 'Skyfall' a true masterpiece. Even more so than 'Casino Royale'. Here, I said it.

    I think that you are very mistaken, Fleming would not have written this characters-are-more-important-than-a-logic-story. At his shabbiest he could not invent such awefull storyline that did it best to not involve any continuety and left it up the fanboys to make up for it.
    Bond gets shot twice and then falls of a bridge mortally wounded and a few months on he walks into the home of his boss, on whom just an terrorist attack did happen. He then gets lovingly be taken back into the family of MI6. Even Fleming did know better than that as he proved in TMWTGG...... (but Mendes was perhaps desperate to show how original he was while trhowing any sense of reality overboard)

    If anybody considers SF a great original treatment you are simply blinded by Craiglove. In my humble opinion GE made far more sense and had a far better Flemingesque approach than most of the original Craig screenplays.

    Britain letting an ICBM be solely and entirely constructed by one man with questionable profits and a questionable background in Moonraker made logical sense?

    Dr. No crashing American missiles into the ocean and retrieving them to make a quick dime off the Russians, while murdering and enslaving people to cover it up made complete logical sense?

    Fleming always put the characters before the sub-plots. Always. Dr. No or Drax's plans weren't the centerpiece to the books, it was Bond. Now I'll admit his villains' plans were perhaps more feasible, plausible, and more logical when specifically compared to Skyfall's logic, but it's not much of a stretch.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    JWESTBROOK wrote:

    Britain letting an ICBM be solely and entirely constructed by one man with questionable profits and a questionable background in Moonraker made logical sense?

    In those days it made perhaps far more sense than these days, and it was not yet called an ICBM.

    Dr. No crashing American missiles into the ocean and retrieving them to make a quick dime off the Russians, while murdering and enslaving people to cover it up made complete logical sense?

    A great way to make some dosh

    Fleming always put the characters before the sub-plots. Always. Dr. No or Drax's plans weren't the centerpiece to the books, it was Bond. Now I'll admit his villains' plans were perhaps more feasible, plausible, and more logical when specifically compared to Skyfall's logic, but it's not much of a stretch.

    Flemings plot might be fantastical but even he did know that a lost secret agent does not get into line as quick. M did like 007 but still send him out to get killed after a thorough check up.
    I doubt sincerely that he would send M out with James Bond while a very well organised terrorist is lusting after her blood. It just makes no sense at all...........

    O:-)
  • PerdoggPerdogg
    Posts: 686

    01) 'For Your Eyes Only' (1981) also uses the identigraph from Goldfinger

    02) 'Octopussy' (1983) also uses the line from Moonraker '..to spend the money while you can'

    03) 'Licence To Kill' (1989) also uses the Bond 'on the roof' shooting borrowed from the novel Casino Royale.





  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    And we shall not speak about all the stuff that is officially NOT borrowed from the Gradner series of books.

    I remember reading this list as made by some fan with stuff BORROWED from Gardners books and it was quite painfull as how unoriginal EON has been.
  • Matt_HelmMatt_Helm
    Posts: 908
    SaintMark wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I also want to discuss something else that comes to the core of the topic title really. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is better than 'Casino Royale' for another reason. Whereas 'Casino Royale' is in my opinion a near perfect modern day adaptation of Fleming's novel is excellent, I find it from a creative perspective harder, more challenging to come up with a complete original screenplay that feels like a true adaptation of a Fleming novel. In my opinion, 'Skyfall' is a movie from which the actual source material could have been written by the late Ian Fleming himself. And that's not the case. All the crew behind 'Skyfall', especially the Bond producers and the screenplay writers, did such an exemplary study of Ian Fleming's Bond, that I find 'Skyfall' a true masterpiece. Even more so than 'Casino Royale'. Here, I said it.

    I think that you are very mistaken, Fleming would not have written this characters-are-more-important-than-a-logic-story. At his shabbiest he could not invent such awefull storyline that did it best to not involve any continuety and left it up the fanboys to make up for it.
    Bond gets shot twice and then falls of a bridge mortally wounded and a few months on he walks into the home of his boss, on whom just an terrorist attack did happen. He then gets lovingly be taken back into the family of MI6. Even Fleming did know better than that as he proved in TMWTGG...... (but Mendes was perhaps desperate to show how original he was while trhowing any sense of reality overboard)

    If anybody considers SF a great original treatment you are simply blinded by Craiglove. In my humble opinion GE made far more sense and had a far better Flemingesque approach than most of the original Craig screenplays.


    So glad I did not have to Write this. Somebody still had to say it though!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well, I agree that SF is very well written indeed, one of the best screenplays.
    I also like TSWLM and Goldeneye very much. TND would also be on my list of best original (although all borrow some bits) Bond screenplays.

    Skyfall and Casino Royale are very close in quality, in my opinion. Both are excellent, top tier Bond films.
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