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Was Fleming's Bond "suave"?

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Quoting Cipher: I think chuck007's referring to the screenplay McClory and Whittington co-wrote with Fleming around 1960 before EON acquired the rights to the novels. I'm not that familiar with the McClory v EON legal stoush but I think he did make some claim to creating the cinematic Bond.
    Personally I think CR, the novel, demonstrates how suave Bond already was at his first adventure. I don't buy the McClory story at all. Sorry. ;;)
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting BAIN123: Nonetheless, I think he did dress well, and yes, his attention to detail was superb. I suppose many average working/middle-class readers of the 50s would have envied Bond's use of dinner jackets, silk shirts, satin ties and (expensive) rolex watches - especially since money was still tight for some people following the war.



    It all sounds rather upper class and "stylish" to me anyway.


    I guess it depends on your definition of "stylish". I sometimes find "stylish" and "classic" to be at odds with one another. I find Bond more "classic" than "stylish".
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Stylish is described on the net as "having elegance or taste or refinement in manners or dress". A fairly broard term.

    I suppose that fits Bond. Rolex watches (especially then) would have been rather fashionable for the sophisticated Eton man.

    Fleming himself certainly had very specific tastes and (from what I can remember anyway) liked to make the clothes SOUND posh and classy even when they were more mundane (this probably reflected his own snobbery).
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Yet bellbottoms were considered "stylish" in the 70s
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I like how Roger wears them in '77. He's my only memory of people wearing those as part of a tux.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I suppose some things remain "stylish" (e.g. smart suits, expensive watches) whilst others don't (and rightly so).
  • chuck007chuck007
    Posts: 172
    I doubt the word "stylish" fits Bond. He is a snob yes, but stylish? what is so stylish wear Rolex watch and a tux? . Sonny Crockett (Miami Vice) is more stylish than James Bond IMO.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    blockquote>Quoting chuck007: what is so stylish wear Rolex watch and a tux?

    It's pretty dapper and sophisticated. Not to mention expensive
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Just seen this article.

    http://www.jamesbondlifestyle.com/index_articles.php?m=articles&g=art070101

    I think its fair to say, judging by this article, that Bond had a SENSE of style (even if he didn't always dress to impress).

  • MrSpyMrSpy
    Posts: 116
    I think of Fleming's Bond as more well-bred and poised than "suave" in the Playboy Magazine style. Bond is more intelligent in the novels, and sometimes indulges in Carrollian word-play (I wish Fleming had put more of that in!), and he can be brutal and blunt. So I don't real see him as dapper Cary Grant or David Niven (two of Fleming's choices for the film role) but I guess Fleming saw Bond that way! But he wrote him as more interesting & tougher than that, so I prefer the rougher Bond actors myself. In my mind, Bond is much as he is drawn on various old paperback covers: rough and ready, dark, a little menacing, colder than he is in most of the films.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Quoting MrSpy: rough and ready, dark, a little menacing, cold
    Precisly the description of Moore in TMWTGG !
  • chuck007chuck007
    edited April 2011 Posts: 172
    Quoting BAIN123: blockquote>Quoting chuck007: what is so stylish wear Rolex watch and a tux?



    It's pretty dapper and sophisticated. Not to mention expensive
    someone/anyone who wore expensive item is stylish to you? by your definition B.A Baracus is a stylish person too same like James Bond...and so street gangsters...
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Quoting chuck007: someone/anyone who wore expensive item is stylish to you? by your definition B.A
    Baracus is a stylish person too same like James Bond...and so street
    gangsters...
    Yes, in their eyes they are stylish.

    Basically you're saying that a tux and an expensive watch aren't luxurious "stylish" items?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Quoting DaltonCraig007: Precisly the description of Moore in TMWTGG !
    The thing is that persona didn't suit Moore. He didn't like playing it that way.
  • chuck007chuck007
    Posts: 172
    Quoting BAIN123: Yes, in their eyes they are stylish.
    So Bond stylish same as
    :-D
    Quoting BAIN123: Basically you're saying that a tux and an expensive watch aren't luxurious "stylish" items?
    Nope, i wore that, and i never consider it myself stylish, and to me Bond is not a stylish person, can you imagine a SECRET AGENT is a stylish person???
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    edited April 2011 Posts: 638
    I think there is a fine line between stylish and classic. Style tends to be a bit more individual and using modern trends. Classic is...well..classic, not so modern. I think the film Bond tends to be more stylish than the literary Bond who is more classic/conservative than stylish. A Rolex and a classically cut tux is not stylish, but perhaps classic and dapper.

    Think of how many car salesmen, lawyers, doctors etc that wear a Rolex and a suit. Does that make them stylish?
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd consider a rolex stylish. It's certainly something not to be sniffed at. I've certainly never worn one.
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting BAIN123: I'd consider a rolex stylish. It's certainly something not to be sniffed at. I've certainly never worn one.
    Have you ever heard the term "going out of style" Styles change, classic does not.
    No, a Rolex is classic. Classic is something that will never go out of style. Stylish is current, something that CAN go out of style
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    mm ok I'll conceded :)

    I don't really know that much about style anyway
    Quoting jaguar007: I think there is a fine line between stylish and classic.
    You're probably right. Personally I always considered "stylish" to be anything that looked good or impressive.
  • gregdaultongregdaulton
    Posts: 49
    Fleming's Bond is a real secret agent who sits behind a desk and has occasional paperwork to do while at the same time getting into these adventures and seemingly having to shoot/kill his way out of trouble.

    The movie Bond started out every bit as pure as the Bond of the novels, but by the time Lazenby left the role, BOND had become fantastical.

    Fleming's Bond has sophistication and class but uses it at the proper times, which makes him seem more genuine. In the films, Bond can get into a car chase, nearly die 5 times in 1 day and come away unscathed so effortlessly that he can drink martinis and bed women by dinner time.

    That is something that Craig's movies have gotten away from, thankfully.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2011 Posts: 11,189
    "That is something that Craig's movies have gotten away from, thankfully"

    I'm not sure about that tbh. In QoS he gets into a car chase, falls through a skylight, drives speed boats, falls out of planes and avoids gunfire in a burning building - and emerges from all of them unscathed.

    The only differences were that that film was more serious in tone and he didn't end up getting the girl in the end.
  • gregdaultongregdaulton
    Posts: 49
    That is a good point, BAIN123. I guess suavity can be mistaken for seriousness in tone sometimes.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited May 2011 Posts: 422
    Quoting BAIN123: I'd consider a rolex stylish. It's certainly something not to be sniffed at. I've certainly never worn one.
    Have you ever heard the term "going out of style" Styles change, classic does not.
    No, a Rolex is classic. Classic is something that will never go out of style. Stylish is current, something that CAN go out of style
    Stylish = Fashionable
    Classic = Conservative

    generally speaking

    IMO "conservative" can change over time, but it changes slowly, if something were still in fashion after 10 years, then Bond might consider wearing it

    a Rolex is stylish, but that is not what defines it, quality is what defines it and quality is always in fashion

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