Differences in acting between Timothy Dalton's Bond and Daniel Craig's Bond

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  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    @acoppola thanks, I have seen framed as well as many other things with Dalton. My favourite has to be his Jane Eyre. But I always find the same problem with him, it's not a big one but it something that bothers me.
    Regan wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    (so far I only met one woman who didn't find him attractive by the way)

    Better make that two...

    (lol, sorry, just couldn't resist). I don't think Craig is as ugly as some people complain him to be, but I am afraid he doesn't float my boat...

    He's not a pretty boy but he is terribly good looking, in a rather unusual way. Not everyone has the same taste (thank heaven for that) but I think he's gorgeous :\"> and had the same opinion before he became Bond (he was the only good thing about Tomb Raider).
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Shardlake wrote:
    I like Dalton I really do, I was one of those mourning his loss after seeing GE but for me personally just after witnessing Skyfall Craig takes Bond to a level that Tim didn't, his confidence in the role is now so recognisable.

    He manages the quips to a degree that he's equalling Connery for me, he also in Skyfall is presenting to me a Bond with so much more depth, he presents a version of Fleming's Bond, maybe not the version Dalton did, Craig mixes it more with the cinematic version but with a confidence I never saw in Dalton.

    I don't remember Fleming writing about some suave playboy who causes havoc and destruction with no accountability and said oof allot when he got punched. Seriously you must be reading different Fleming to me, I've seen that interview with Moore when he attributes his performance to the element of Bond that doesn't like killing but he does because it's his job in one of the books, it might have started out like that but can you honestly tell me that it is Fleming's Bond in Moonraker?

    Seriously OP is now getting held up as lost Bond classic? The film with a sequence that contains John Glenn doing a dreadful pastiche of Raiders of The Lost Ark ( quite ironic considering Cubby turned down Spielberg to direct an entry) and has Bond screaming like Tarzan and that line about keeping you in curry for a week, someone's grasping at straws surely?

    Fair enough no one is taking away from Rog that he was suave, smooth with the ladies and had great comic timing but to try and say he plays a more Fleming Bond than Craig and that OP has more tension than any Craig entry? No one would take away from him what he was known for he does better than anyone else but now you are trying to attribute the darker side of the character to him the side that Dalton and Craig are known for the Fleming Bond, you can't have your cake and eat it.


    I can appreciate where you are coming from. But we must remember that when Dalton took over as Bond they were experimenting with the formula. It was on Daniel Craig's third entry where it seems everyone is saying he got the blend right. And the producers by that time knew that Bond could not be without certain elements. And this was worked on heavily. Trial and error of the past, lead to Daniel being this new Bond

    But, let us also remember the incredible support Craig got including Sam Mendes as well as the script writer and a longer preparation time. Yes he is talented but the wrong director and you can have a disaster too despite the actor being fine.

    I have often heard this remarked about Dalton. Had he had the same backing as Craig got, he would be the best Bond ever.

    Sadly, Tim never got the third film where the charm lays as they say. Daniel almost ended the same way when Bond 23 was indefinitely cancelled in 2010. Say they did not restart the series until 2016, hiring a new actor, the audience would criticise Daniel similarly like they did Tim when Pierce took over.

    Daniel is a fine Bond, but there is this idiotic general public concept that you can only be great by doing 3 or more movies as Bond. I do not understand this false premise.

    The one problem I have with the franchise is that by Dalton not doing a third film let alone fourth between '91-'93, we have a horribly wasted opportunity of growth. And as a result we got some poorer post-Dalton Bond films which were in essence the please everyone approach.

    It took the franchise 17 years to find the ideal actor for modern times in Daniel.

    I hope I make sense? and had Dalton been a less competent actor, I would not even waste my time defending him. But believe me, he had it and even Connery said he was a good choice when he was cast in '86. It was squandered.

    I am happy Daniel is doing great but he could have ended up in the same boat as Tim suffering years of unfair criticism and blame. I wished Dalton's tenure had the same good fortune.

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 80
    But both actors have suffered from fans myopic view of what constitutes Bond, one before and during filming and one after. It doesn't matter what talent you have on board if the lead can't carry the film.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Sandy wrote:
    @acoppola thanks, I have seen framed as well as many other things with Dalton. My favourite has to be his Jane Eyre. But I always find the same problem with him, it's not a big one but it something that bothers me.
    Regan wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    (so far I only met one woman who didn't find him attractive by the way)

    Better make that two...

    (lol, sorry, just couldn't resist). I don't think Craig is as ugly as some people complain him to be, but I am afraid he doesn't float my boat...

    He's not a pretty boy but he is terribly good looking, in a rather unusual way. Not everyone has the same taste (thank heaven for that) but I think he's gorgeous :\"> and had the same opinion before he became Bond (he was the only good thing about Tomb Raider).

    Hi Sandy! Interesting. I actually put some food for thought in my reply above to someone else but perhaps you may see where I am coming from. Great if you could read it.

    I actually felt Daniel came across as most attractive as Bond in the casino sequences in CR. It's in his subdued menace which Dalton also had especially in LTK. If you try and be sexy all the time, it becomes dull. Pierce is guilty of that to an extent.

    But the scenes at the hotel where they trying to make Daniel sexy like when he stares at the receptionist or the scene where he gets into the vintage Aston Martin with the woman were trying too hard to get him accepted in the role.

    I remember my ex-girlfriend at the time laughing and she could see what they were trying to do. And she walked out saying she thought he is not Bond. She liked the previous Bonds looks and charisma.

    But Daniel is getting better and controlling it more. We must also understand Dan's Bond is young Bond and Dalton's was jaded bastard at the end of his rope. He has done it all and is bored in a way. The demons had caught up!

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 3,333
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Come to think of it Dalton's never worked with a really "top" director as far as I know. The closest "big name" I've heard him being associated with was Renny Harlin (I know he's not the greatest of directors but he was big in the 90s with Cliffhanger and Die Hard 2 - both solid action flicks).

    Harlin flatly refused to work with him when he was asked to do GE and said the studio needed to recast.

    Brosnan's worked with the likes of Roman Polanski and John McTiernan, and starred alongside Meryl Streep, Judi Dench and Susan Sarandon. I'm sure Dalton would have LOVED opportunities like that.
    I know we've had this discussion off the boards, @BAIN123, but I fail to see how Dalton has been associated with Renny Harlin, other than for him putting the actor down on a job we don't know whether he was actually offered in the first place. I do find a certain karma and schadenfreude with Harlin's subsequent career after making those snide remarks, and it's with great delight to see that he is now reduced to making TV movies and dreadful B-movies himself.

    I think @Getafix is right when he says Dalton wasn't looking to be a major movie star after Bond and was content to take a step back and take work that appealed to him, rather than have the responsibility of a movie resting on his shoulders again. The opposite can be said of Brosnan, who took this once in a lifetime opportunity that had propelled him from TV actor to A-list movie star, and pushed for bigger pictures because of his new found status. They are both different kinds of personalities with different goals at different stages of their careers. Brosnan always wanted to be a big Hollywood star but was always denied this before Bond, whereas it didn't seem to bother Dalton as he lived in the UK and wasn't part of the Tinseltown sycophants with a house overlooking Malibu beach. One could ask if Brosnan was so great then why did he need Bond to launch his career? And the only reason why the Brozz worked with John McTiernan was because Brosnan formed a film production company entitled "Irish DreamTime" in '96 that hired McTierman to direct his movie, and which also produced The Matador. Dalton just didn't have the same drive or ambition as Brosnan to set up his own production company and probably didn't like dealing with the Tinseltown suits. Not everyone does, different strokes for different folks.

    Also, one could level the same argument at Roger Moore, who only had limited success outside of Bond in supporting roles throughout his much longer tenure as 007.

    PS. Also, Dalton worked with heavyweights actors Peter O'Toole, Katharine Hepburn, Anthony Hopkins, Dustin Hoffman, Vanessa Redgrave, Richard Harris, Alec Guinness, Glenda Jackson which I'm sure someone with Brosnan's acting chops would have LOVED opportunities like that.
  • doubleoego wrote:
    Well I saw SF.

    Craig still didn't top Dalton for me. But he did suprise me, he really did. He nailed it. He has to be in my top 3 now.

    :-)) no surprise there but I'm glad you enjoyed SF and rate Craig higher than you previously did.

    He's either 2nd or 3rd on my list now. So tying with either Brosnan or Connery.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Shardlake wrote:
    I like Dalton I really do, I was one of those mourning his loss after seeing GE but for me personally just after witnessing Skyfall Craig takes Bond to a level that Tim didn't, his confidence in the role is now so recognisable.

    He manages the quips to a degree that he's equalling Connery for me, he also in Skyfall is presenting to me a Bond with so much more depth, he presents a version of Fleming's Bond, maybe not the version Dalton did, Craig mixes it more with the cinematic version but with a confidence I never saw in Dalton.

    I don't remember Fleming writing about some suave playboy who causes havoc and destruction with no accountability and said oof allot when he got punched. Seriously you must be reading different Fleming to me, I've seen that interview with Moore when he attributes his performance to the element of Bond that doesn't like killing but he does because it's his job in one of the books, it might have started out like that but can you honestly tell me that it is Fleming's Bond in Moonraker?

    Seriously OP is now getting held up as lost Bond classic? The film with a sequence that contains John Glenn doing a dreadful pastiche of Raiders of The Lost Ark ( quite ironic considering Cubby turned down Spielberg to direct an entry) and has Bond screaming like Tarzan and that line about keeping you in curry for a week, someone's grasping at straws surely?

    Fair enough no one is taking away from Rog that he was suave, smooth with the ladies and had great comic timing but to try and say he plays a more Fleming Bond than Craig and that OP has more tension than any Craig entry? No one would take away from him what he was known for he does better than anyone else but now you are trying to attribute the darker side of the character to him the side that Dalton and Craig are known for the Fleming Bond, you can't have your cake and eat it.


    Oh @Shardlake you were doing so well

    You go and see Skyfall, you think it's good and Craig is good (which I am delighted to hear) and then feel the need to attack Roger Moore's era...very bizarre.

    Whether you like it or not, Moore portrayed a side of Fleming's bond just as Craig is doing now. Fact. You cannot deny Moore's Bond wasn't in Fleming's material because it was. The Fleming stories were out of date by the Moore era and unfit as they were so needed major revamping. Moonraker is a consequence of that and whether you think its good or bad, it happened and contributed to the continuing success of the Bond series. Without Moore, Bond would be dead. You couldn't have FRWL, OHMSS, LTK or CR in Moore's time because the world had moved on/wasn't ready for those type of films. Just as if Moonraker was made today, it would too be rejected as being out of it's time.

    As for your bashing and unfair criticism of Octopussy, I am speechless. Octopussy is a classic and is better than any Craig entry (still to see Skyfall but tbh, I won't judge Skyfall in terms of ranking until the DVD comes out). Let's turn the tables: how is CR/QOS/SF a classic where OP fails to be? It's a matter of opinion. Octopussy is a great film and there is just constant quality throughout. And yes it is most tense and exciting. Compare the bomb scene in OP to that in the Miami Airport in CR...CR is nothing compared to OP. And here we go...the Moore bashers bring out the Tarzan argument. 4 seconds in a whole 2 hour film and that's the only criticism they got...it's so weak and boring now. Yes it was a mistake and not good but seriously, Richard Branson in CR? The Mongoose/Snake fight in CR? Mr Mendel in CR? Or aren't we not allowed to mention them because it's Craig??

    OP is the most tense Bond film held together by Roger Moore. His acting is seriously brilliant and he is tense and portrays Fleming's bond to a tee...I have never said Moore is darker than Craig/Dalton because that would be stupid. I am saying people like you fail to acknowledge the serious and dark moments of Sir Roger in his movies. And that is both a shame and biased. If Dalton/Craig had done Octopussy minus the Tarzan scene, you would rave about it. Because it's Moore, you don't want to give him credit

    I was planning a long detailed reply but I'm afraid we are coming at the character from a completely different places, I really don't see Fleming in Moore at all and can't conceive how you can think he offers more Fleming than Craig, I've seen Skyfall and for me he offers the most IF Bond to date but I've no doubt you'll disagree because of your love affair with Roger Moore's Bond.

    Incidentally my favourite entry still remains OHMSS, it has neither my joint favourite Bond Connery or Craig in it, Lazenby would rank below both and Dalton but above Moore and Brosnan for me but I'm not going to try and say his Bond offers a more Fleming like Bond because of it, I hoping someone will come to my defence about how you think Moore is more Fleming than Craig and OP is some lost Bond classic but I didn't come into a thread about Dalton and Craig's Bond's and start bigging up Roger Moore so forgive me if I jump to Craig defence.

    Maybe you should start a thread explaining why you think the most comical unlikely deadly secret agent is more Fleming like than Craig, I've had my say and now will stay out of this thread and your Moore is more Fleming thread if you choose to start one, it would be a more suitable place to state rather than a thread that didn't even ask for an opinion on Moore's Bond.
  • I find Craig is improving Dalton for me, and vice versa. Licence To Kill has shot up my list lately, and Dalton has very clearly nestled in with Connery and Craig on my list now, when before Craig took the part i saw Dalton more as an oddity - a brave and partially successful one, but certainly a breed apart. Most of the reason for Dalton and LTK rising is due to Dalton, but my enjoyment of Craig helps too. I don't find them that similar, but their similarity in serious, committed approach is mutually beneficial reputation-wise
  • Posts: 173
    I find Craig is improving Dalton for me, and vice versa. Licence To Kill has shot up my list lately, and Dalton has very clearly nestled in with Connery and Craig on my list now, when before Craig took the part i saw Dalton more as an oddity - a brave and partially successful one, but certainly a breed apart. Most of the reason for Dalton and LTK rising is due to Dalton, but my enjoyment of Craig helps too. I don't find them that similar, but their similarity in serious, committed approach is mutually beneficial reputation-wise

    Loving this comment, and very much agree. It's great that the Craig success is directly shedding a better light on Dalton now and elevating his films and portrayal so positively.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    bondsum wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Come to think of it Dalton's never worked with a really "top" director as far as I know. The closest "big name" I've heard him being associated with was Renny Harlin (I know he's not the greatest of directors but he was big in the 90s with Cliffhanger and Die Hard 2 - both solid action flicks).

    Harlin flatly refused to work with him when he was asked to do GE and said the studio needed to recast.

    Brosnan's worked with the likes of Roman Polanski and John McTiernan, and starred alongside Meryl Streep, Judi Dench and Susan Sarandon. I'm sure Dalton would have LOVED opportunities like that.
    I know we've had this discussion off the boards, @BAIN123, but I fail to see how Dalton has been associated with Renny Harlin, other than for him putting the actor down on a job we don't know whether he was actually offered in the first place. I do find a certain karma and schadenfreude with Harlin's subsequent career after making those snide remarks, and it's with great delight to see that he is now reduced to making TV movies and dreadful B-movies himself.

    I think @Getafix is right when he says Dalton wasn't looking to be a major movie star after Bond and was content to take a step back and take work that appealed to him, rather than have the responsibility of a movie resting on his shoulders again. The opposite can be said of Brosnan, who took this once in a lifetime opportunity that had propelled him from TV actor to A-list movie star, and pushed for bigger pictures because of his new found status. They are both different kinds of personalities with different goals at different stages of their careers. Brosnan always wanted to be a big Hollywood star but was always denied this before Bond, whereas it didn't seem to bother Dalton as he lived in the UK and wasn't part of the Tinseltown sycophants with a house overlooking Malibu beach. One could ask if Brosnan was so great then why did he need Bond to launch his career? And the only reason why the Brozz worked with John McTiernan was because Brosnan formed a film production company entitled "Irish DreamTime" in '96 that hired McTierman to direct his movie, and which also produced The Matador. Dalton just didn't have the same drive or ambition as Brosnan to set up his own production company and probably didn't like dealing with the Tinseltown suits. Not everyone does, different strokes for different folks.

    Also, one could level the same argument at Roger Moore, who only had limited success outside of Bond in supporting roles throughout his much longer tenure as 007.

    PS. Also, Dalton worked with heavyweights actors Peter O'Toole, Katharine Hepburn, Anthony Hopkins, Dustin Hoffman, Vanessa Redgrave, Richard Harris, Alec Guinness, Glenda Jackson which I'm sure someone with Brosnan's acting chops would have LOVED opportunities like that.

    Hmm good post @Bondsum, I know we've had this discussion and I'm probably being a little unfair. I'm no fan of RH (although I do like the films I mentioned above) but l I just can't help but wonder whether there's a reason why he's not appeared in more stuff in the years since. I know he doesn't like Tinsletown but I'm sure there were more independent productions he could have been involved in - if he wanted to of course. I don't get why he wouldn't though. He said himself in the "EON" documentary that he "likes a challenge" so why hasn't he taken on more roles that offer him this? Not necessarily "starring" roles per se but just ones with a bit of clout.

    I don't know for certain, I'm only speculating.

    Personally I think its a good thing RH and TD never worked together. They don't strike me as a very compatable couple anyway. I felt sorry for Tim when I heard RH say those things
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Regan wrote:
    I find Craig is improving Dalton for me, and vice versa. Licence To Kill has shot up my list lately, and Dalton has very clearly nestled in with Connery and Craig on my list now, when before Craig took the part i saw Dalton more as an oddity - a brave and partially successful one, but certainly a breed apart. Most of the reason for Dalton and LTK rising is due to Dalton, but my enjoyment of Craig helps too. I don't find them that similar, but their similarity in serious, committed approach is mutually beneficial reputation-wise

    Loving this comment, and very much agree. It's great that the Craig success is directly shedding a better light on Dalton now and elevating his films and portrayal so positively.

    Yeah, this is one of the best comments I've read! Thanks Pasty!
  • Posts: 6,601
    This is ridiculous and takes away from your Dalton, because what you guys are saying is - that Dalton needed Craig to make the impact he wanted to make from the beginning. Not sure, he would be flattered.
    Surely Craig didn'*t need a failed Dalton to make HIS impact. Success is never build on failure.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 12,837
    @Germanlady People didn't want a serious Bond back then. There were serious action films sure, but even they were filled with one liners, etc. People were too used to Roger Moore's Bond.

    In 2006, people wanted a darker Bond and when they saw CR, they thought "this is actually pretty good" And people who'd seen the older films thought "Dalton might've been onto something there"

    It doesn't take away from him at all. It actually adds to him because it's saying he was ahead of his time.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 553
    Germanlady wrote:
    This is ridiculous and takes away from your Dalton, because what you guys are saying is - that Dalton needed Craig to make the impact he wanted to make from the beginning. Not sure, he would be flattered.
    Surely Craig didn'*t need a failed Dalton to make HIS impact. Success is never build on failure.

    Not saying that at all, only saying that having a Bond with a similar sensibility has given me a greater appreciation of Dalton. I don't think in either case one needed the other. I am stating an opinion, calling it ridiculous seems somewhat harsh.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    acoppola wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    @acoppola thanks, I have seen framed as well as many other things with Dalton. My favourite has to be his Jane Eyre. But I always find the same problem with him, it's not a big one but it something that bothers me.
    Regan wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    (so far I only met one woman who didn't find him attractive by the way)

    Better make that two...

    (lol, sorry, just couldn't resist). I don't think Craig is as ugly as some people complain him to be, but I am afraid he doesn't float my boat...

    He's not a pretty boy but he is terribly good looking, in a rather unusual way. Not everyone has the same taste (thank heaven for that) but I think he's gorgeous :\"> and had the same opinion before he became Bond (he was the only good thing about Tomb Raider).

    Hi Sandy! Interesting. I actually put some food for thought in my reply above to someone else but perhaps you may see where I am coming from. Great if you could read it.

    I actually felt Daniel came across as most attractive as Bond in the casino sequences in CR. It's in his subdued menace which Dalton also had especially in LTK. If you try and be sexy all the time, it becomes dull. Pierce is guilty of that to an extent.

    But the scenes at the hotel where they trying to make Daniel sexy like when he stares at the receptionist or the scene where he gets into the vintage Aston Martin with the woman were trying too hard to get him accepted in the role.

    I remember my ex-girlfriend at the time laughing and she could see what they were trying to do. And she walked out saying she thought he is not Bond. She liked the previous Bonds looks and charisma.


    But Daniel is getting better and controlling it more. We must also understand Dan's Bond is young Bond and Dalton's was jaded bastard at the end of his rope. He has done it all and is bored in a way. The demons had caught up!

    About the parts I put in Bold I couldn't disagree more, I think these were some of the best parts in the film and completely natural to me. I apreciate (secretly) when a man behaves like that and I find that completely irresistible :) Of course other women can have a different opinion, what works for some doesn't work for the other. I don't think he was trying to be sexy in those scenes, he was showing an incredible self-confidence. He know how to do it without becoming strange, which didn't work well with Brosnan, something in which I completely agree with you. I also agree that Dalton's Bond is at the end of his career and yes "The demons had caught up" indeed!
    Regan wrote:
    I find Craig is improving Dalton for me, and vice versa. Licence To Kill has shot up my list lately, and Dalton has very clearly nestled in with Connery and Craig on my list now, when before Craig took the part i saw Dalton more as an oddity - a brave and partially successful one, but certainly a breed apart. Most of the reason for Dalton and LTK rising is due to Dalton, but my enjoyment of Craig helps too. I don't find them that similar, but their similarity in serious, committed approach is mutually beneficial reputation-wise

    Loving this comment, and very much agree. It's great that the Craig success is directly shedding a better light on Dalton now and elevating his films and portrayal so positively.

    I also think the fact that people like Craig makes them check Dalton again and that is why the appreciation for Dalton's Bond has been increasing lately in the public's eyes. I don't think Craig needed Dalton to succeed but his portrayal has opened many people's eyes towards Dalton's work.
  • Fellow fans, it is a waste of time and unfair comparing Bond actors, Times change and with each decade, new challenges come in. We should be thankful that Bond is a survivor of the ages (and the studios). Dalton was a 00 and he was portrayed as a monogamous in TLD, tougher than Moore, in the uncertain times of the 80's with the Politically Corr. Craig became 00 searching for his identity as "half hit man half monk". All the actors did great with my only disappointment Brosnan's DAD. Amazing intro (and entry into hotel-'My usual suite please") but Bond and CGI (to that extent) is a NO-NO. Way too much fantasy. Last, Craig may lack in the elegance of others in that he looks the former SAS-military type, but compensates by performing action like none of the others combined as well as making Bond real. None of the other actors were bruised, bloodied, scarred physically and emotionally. DAD went there with the beard and torture scenes and the mention of what Bond is: an assassin.
  • Posts: 6,601
    @Germanlady People didn't want a serious Bond back then. There were serious action films sure, but even they were filled with one liners, etc. People were too used to Roger Moore's Bond.


    Royale, my very own experiene is, that I was slightly upset by DC's portrayal of Bond, because for me, Bond was Moorish or Brosnanish - but DC as an actor blow me away and brought me to appreciate this new Bond. THIS is what Dalton didn't do for me and very obviously for most others. Its always ALL about the lead actor, not about the take on something. THIS is what I was trying to say all along. DC obviously had that bit more of sexappeal, that Dalton lacked. Long story short.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I added this to my favourites especially, in case I'd ever need it again. Now is that time.

    DaltonFinger.jpg

    ;) *Credit to @Master_Dahark*

    Seriously now though, I don't think it's just about the lead actor. Put any actor in DAD and most people on here would still have it towards the bottom. Tone still plays a big part in it, it's not always all about the lead actor.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 173
    Sandy wrote:
    I also think the fact that people like Craig makes them check Dalton again and that is why the appreciation for Dalton's Bond has been increasing lately in the public's eyes. I don't think Craig needed Dalton to succeed but his portrayal has opened many people's eyes towards Dalton's work.

    Well said, Sandy... you and I agree :) I don't think Craig needed Dalton to succeed per se. Dalton was just the precursor to a grittier bond and his portrayal helped pave the way, in a way, to start calibrating the more "grounded" Bond if you will. Craig is standing on his own two feet for sure. I don't think one takes away from the other, and it certainly isn't a competition as some seem to believe. We are talking about two different actors from completely different eras.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Germanlady wrote:
    Surely Craig didn'*t need a failed Dalton to make HIS impact. Success is never build on failure.
    Ah, but Dalton did not fail. He succeeded tremendously. Remember Blade Runner? Box office bomb, now one of the most well respected Sci Fi movies ever. Now Tim is regarded as one of the best Bonds ever. It's sometimes the way of that which is before its time.
  • Posts: 6,601
    You know, on a whole, i don'*t really care, but look at whatever poll there is and dalton is always at the very botton - at times even behind Lazenby. That's a fact and i am just in here still, because why deny a fact that is. Why is it not possible to just be a dalton fan and not try to make him the second coming?
  • No-one here has done that though
  • Posts: 7,653
    chrisisall wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    Surely Craig didn'*t need a failed Dalton to make HIS impact. Success is never build on failure.
    Ah, but Dalton did not fail. He succeeded tremendously. Remember Blade Runner? Box office bomb, now one of the most well respected Sci Fi movies ever. Now Tim is regarded as one of the best Bonds ever. It's sometimes the way of that which is before its time.
    Germanlady wrote:
    You know, on a whole, i don'*t really care, but look at whatever poll there is and dalton is always at the very botton - at times even behind Lazenby. That's a fact and i am just in here still, because why deny a fact that is. Why is it not possible to just be a dalton fan and not try to make him the second coming?

    Dalton is enjoyed by a certain Bondfan while the general audiences are not that impressed with the man as 007 or as a BO magnet period. Timothy Dalton is an aquired taste. On the whole I prefer his non-Bond roles, he impressed me far more in them.

    In my view they would do well to relist Dalton for the next movie and make him the baddie. I bet he will do very well.

    There was this poll in a Dutch paper about the preference of James Bond, Connery was good for 50%, Next was Roger, the Brosnan by a small margin on Craig. Dalton did not even figure at all.

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 6,601
    No-one here has done that though

    Sure you did. Some tried to throw the man in our faces as being the best ever. Best is an opinion anyway and can never be shared by everybody. I think, its a matter of just giving it a rest. Even I wouldn't go around and try to make everybody like DC. Those, who have their strong opinion won't change it anyway.


  • I am a Craig and Connery guy and you were really quite rude
  • Germanlady wrote:
    Sure you did.

    n't
    Germanlady wrote:
    Some tried to throw the man in our faces as being the best ever.

    People have said they think he was the best. Just like people have said Connery was, Lazenby was, Moore was, Brosnan was and Craig was on these forums.
    Germanlady wrote:
    Best is an opinion anyway and can never be shared by everybody.

    So we shouldn't say opinions because not everyone agrees?
    Germanlady wrote:
    Even I wouldn't go around and try to make everybody like DC.

    If I'm throwing Dalton in peoples faces then by that logic, you're throwing Craig in peoples faces.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Germanlady wrote:
    Sure you did. Some tried to throw the man in our faces as being the best ever.

    Well, I stated that he's finally being seen as one of the best Bonds ever. As opposed to "the guy in those bad Bond movies" as he might have been seen in the past. There's a valid argument to be made that each of the Bond actors were "THE" best. I, personally, feel that Dalton & Craig are the cream that rises to the top of this particular milk bottle, but in any case, it's nice to see a little more appreciation here and on other sites from hard core 007 fans concerning Dalton. And as for the general public- a pox on them anyway. They mostly haven't even read Shakespeare, never mind Fleming, think Rembrandt is just a brand of toothpaste and believe the AIDS virus came from monkeys, so what should I care for polls? :))
  • Posts: 7,653
    chrisisall wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    Sure you did. Some tried to throw the man in our faces as being the best ever.

    Well, I stated that he's finally being seen as one of the best Bonds ever. As opposed to "the guy in those bad Bond movies" as he might have been seen in the past. There's a valid argument to be made that each of the Bond actors were "THE" best. I, personally, feel that Dalton & Craig are the cream that rises to the top of this particular milk bottle, but in any case, it's nice to see a little more appreciation here and on other sites from hard core 007 fans concerning Dalton. And as for the general public- a pox on them anyway. They mostly haven't even read Shakespeare, never mind Fleming, think Rembrandt is just a brand of toothpaste and believe the AIDS virus came from monkeys, so what should I care for polls? :))

    Calling people who disagree stupid as they do not agree with you, shows your insight.

    The comparisons made by you are rather shortsighted imho, really Shakespeare, Fleming, Rembrandt and the AIDS virus. I am not quite sure where you are from.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2012 Posts: 17,801
    SaintMark wrote:
    Calling people who disagree stupid as they do not agree with you, shows your insight.
    Who did I call 'stupid'? Look, there's a smiley at the end of my post- do you think I literally wish them sick with pox for their lack of sophistication? Laugh a little, dude!
    The comparisons made by you are rather shortsighted imho,
    I do not think this word means what you think it means.
    (that's a Princess Bride ref)
    really Shakespeare, Fleming, Rembrandt and the AIDS virus. I am not quite sure where you are from.
    Right here, just like you! ;)
  • Shardlake wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    I like Dalton I really do, I was one of those mourning his loss after seeing GE but for me personally just after witnessing Skyfall Craig takes Bond to a level that Tim didn't, his confidence in the role is now so recognisable.

    He manages the quips to a degree that he's equalling Connery for me, he also in Skyfall is presenting to me a Bond with so much more depth, he presents a version of Fleming's Bond, maybe not the version Dalton did, Craig mixes it more with the cinematic version but with a confidence I never saw in Dalton.

    I don't remember Fleming writing about some suave playboy who causes havoc and destruction with no accountability and said oof allot when he got punched. Seriously you must be reading different Fleming to me, I've seen that interview with Moore when he attributes his performance to the element of Bond that doesn't like killing but he does because it's his job in one of the books, it might have started out like that but can you honestly tell me that it is Fleming's Bond in Moonraker?

    Seriously OP is now getting held up as lost Bond classic? The film with a sequence that contains John Glenn doing a dreadful pastiche of Raiders of The Lost Ark ( quite ironic considering Cubby turned down Spielberg to direct an entry) and has Bond screaming like Tarzan and that line about keeping you in curry for a week, someone's grasping at straws surely?

    Fair enough no one is taking away from Rog that he was suave, smooth with the ladies and had great comic timing but to try and say he plays a more Fleming Bond than Craig and that OP has more tension than any Craig entry? No one would take away from him what he was known for he does better than anyone else but now you are trying to attribute the darker side of the character to him the side that Dalton and Craig are known for the Fleming Bond, you can't have your cake and eat it.


    Oh @Shardlake you were doing so well

    You go and see Skyfall, you think it's good and Craig is good (which I am delighted to hear) and then feel the need to attack Roger Moore's era...very bizarre.

    Whether you like it or not, Moore portrayed a side of Fleming's bond just as Craig is doing now. Fact. You cannot deny Moore's Bond wasn't in Fleming's material because it was. The Fleming stories were out of date by the Moore era and unfit as they were so needed major revamping. Moonraker is a consequence of that and whether you think its good or bad, it happened and contributed to the continuing success of the Bond series. Without Moore, Bond would be dead. You couldn't have FRWL, OHMSS, LTK or CR in Moore's time because the world had moved on/wasn't ready for those type of films. Just as if Moonraker was made today, it would too be rejected as being out of it's time.

    As for your bashing and unfair criticism of Octopussy, I am speechless. Octopussy is a classic and is better than any Craig entry (still to see Skyfall but tbh, I won't judge Skyfall in terms of ranking until the DVD comes out). Let's turn the tables: how is CR/QOS/SF a classic where OP fails to be? It's a matter of opinion. Octopussy is a great film and there is just constant quality throughout. And yes it is most tense and exciting. Compare the bomb scene in OP to that in the Miami Airport in CR...CR is nothing compared to OP. And here we go...the Moore bashers bring out the Tarzan argument. 4 seconds in a whole 2 hour film and that's the only criticism they got...it's so weak and boring now. Yes it was a mistake and not good but seriously, Richard Branson in CR? The Mongoose/Snake fight in CR? Mr Mendel in CR? Or aren't we not allowed to mention them because it's Craig??

    OP is the most tense Bond film held together by Roger Moore. His acting is seriously brilliant and he is tense and portrays Fleming's bond to a tee...I have never said Moore is darker than Craig/Dalton because that would be stupid. I am saying people like you fail to acknowledge the serious and dark moments of Sir Roger in his movies. And that is both a shame and biased. If Dalton/Craig had done Octopussy minus the Tarzan scene, you would rave about it. Because it's Moore, you don't want to give him credit

    I was planning a long detailed reply but I'm afraid we are coming at the character from a completely different places, I really don't see Fleming in Moore at all and can't conceive how you can think he offers more Fleming than Craig, I've seen Skyfall and for me he offers the most IF Bond to date but I've no doubt you'll disagree because of your love affair with Roger Moore's Bond.

    Incidentally my favourite entry still remains OHMSS, it has neither my joint favourite Bond Connery or Craig in it, Lazenby would rank below both and Dalton but above Moore and Brosnan for me but I'm not going to try and say his Bond offers a more Fleming like Bond because of it, I hoping someone will come to my defence about how you think Moore is more Fleming than Craig and OP is some lost Bond classic but I didn't come into a thread about Dalton and Craig's Bond's and start bigging up Roger Moore so forgive me if I jump to Craig defence.

    Maybe you should start a thread explaining why you think the most comical unlikely deadly secret agent is more Fleming like than Craig, I've had my say and now will stay out of this thread and your Moore is more Fleming thread if you choose to start one, it would be a more suitable place to state rather than a thread that didn't even ask for an opinion on Moore's Bond.

    Well, you obviously havent read what I have said. I did not say Moore was Fleming's Bond throughout his tenure...I highlighted that in OP (and FYEO) he is Fleming's Bond. It's undeniable. And yes, in those two films, the character of bond was closer to Fleming than in QOS. I mean only someone who is biased would say that in those two films, he was as far removed from Fleming as possible. when have i ever said in MR or that that Moore is Fleming's Bond? Never...because it's foolish

    OHMSS is a great film I agree (top 5). But Lazenby was average at best, and that is why he is the worst bond actor. Well you can hope all day...because I never said if you actually bothered to read. And you are the only OP basher on here so far...says alot. OP is a great Bond film in every way, why don't you admit it? What's the difference between you loving CR and me loving OP? There is none, it's opinion and it's as equal (no better or no worse than anyone else's

    Craig and Dalton are Fleming's Bond on a consistent basis...but credit where credit due eh with the other actors, it's not all a love in with Craig. Yes, wrong thread. But people need a dose of realism and balance in there arguments.
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