Differences in acting between Timothy Dalton's Bond and Daniel Craig's Bond

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  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    marymoss wrote:
    You say Bond is generational but I have grown up on the Brosnan/Craig era and not one of those 6 films (omitting Skyfall ofcourse) appear in my top 14 Bond films. Neither Brosnan nor Craig do anything for me. The films are cold and just seem to try too hard.

    To be honest, I'm yet to meet a girl/woman who think Dalton or Craig are good looking where as they rave (looks wise) about Connery and Moore (back in the day).

    Horses for courses

    Really? I've always felt Dalton was good looking. I actually find him better looking than Connery.I just didn't like his personality.

    I totally agree. Those who say Dalton is not good looking need their eyes tested. Cubby Broccoli always made sure the leading actor looked the part. That much is a fact that cannot be argued with.

    The most beautiful woman I have ever seen in my life fancied Dalton immensely. Whilst the less pretty women hated him. I laugh at the irony of that! And believe me, when I met this beautiful woman and she was because every guy in the room had eyes like they would explode. I wish I was Dalton because I would have won the day!

    And if Dalton met her, she is his if he wants. That is great!

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Germanlady wrote:
    You can always delete. What I wanted to add is - Dalton carried his films and DC carried Cr and QOS. The supporter always praise how great the Dalton films have been. Do you really think, that no other actor would have been able to make those films a success? I think yes. Dalton was just not the type to agree with a larger audience, as it is often claimed and rightly so. Not his fault, its just the way it is. Is making him better then he was a way to show your appreciation? Why not just like him and be good with that. If everybody stilled hated DC, I would still saying, I like him but not claiming, he was the icing on the cake. Some people are just not for everybody, but that doesn't make them any less good for those, who like them.

    For me, Dalton is NOT good looking and without charisma. That's what put me off and I am not alone. Just saying, and that not as a DC fangirl because back then, he was not on the plate yet.

    You are entitled to the opinion of course. But sometimes not always tastes can change.

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 299
    When did this thread become one about comparing the looks of Dalton and Craig? It's making me laugh. Their looks are not at all a factor of how they play the part.

    For the record though, my ex-girlfriend thought that both Dalton and Craig were both very good-looking, as well as Connery. She hated Brosnan's looks, and didn't care much for Moore's either. And yet I've met other people who prefer the looks of the latter two, and not the other three. I've come to notice that those particular choices tend to line up more often than not. People who like Connery's looks, also tend to side with Dalton and/or Craig.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    When did this thread become one about comparing the looks of Dalton and Craig? It's making me laugh. Their looks are not at all a factor of how they play the part.

    For the record though, my ex-girlfriend thought that both Dalton and Craig were both very good-looking, as well as Connery. She hated Brosnan's looks, and didn't care much for Moore's either. And yet I've met other people who prefer the looks of the latter two, and not the other three. I've come to notice that those particular choices tend to line up more often than not.

    I agree with you because it is the actor and not the looks that should win the day. Comparing looks is shallow in my view, but the subject was not initiated by me. But all the Bonds look good in their own way. It suits their personalities too!

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 173
    I have been lurking around here for quite a while now, but I have got to jump in on this one. I am a young woman who only recently discovered the Dalton Bond films and I have the biggest crush imaginable on the man. He was not my first Bond, which is quite funny. For me it was Brosnan. I grew up with him and I remember distinctively that TWINE was the very first Bond film I ever watched. I could recognize how handsome Brosnan is and I totally got why he was so popular with the ladies, but for some reason the character didn’t really click with me until I discovered Dalton much later. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone as attractive as him and yeah, if I could I would freaking marry him (call me a fangirl if you must). I think it’s the combination of intensity with the gorgeous looks and the oh sooo wonderful voice the likes of which I hadn’t heard ever. And of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion because tastes are tastes for a reason, everybody has theirs, but Dalton is so wonderfully gorgeous in my opinion and plenty other women’s opinion too, trust me. I have scoured the internet left, right and center and there are plenty of women who are vocal about it. I’ll leave you with a link:

    http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2011/04/fierce-broody-passion-a-timothy-dalton-tribute

    (by the way, the OP on that post says she didn't like his Bond, but that is her own opinion which is repeatedly rebutted on the comments below by several other women. This mainly deals with Tim and his appeal to women in general, beyond the Bond role).

    I also absolutely despise bashing of any kind to any Bond actor, because I think they all have their merits and are a very clear product of their times. I myself like Craig, I don’t like him as much as Tim because for me Tim embodies every single thing I want in Bond, from the looks to the feel, to the acting. What I will say is I have the utmost respect for every single actor that has so far played the role, even if my appreciation of Lazenby isn’t on the same level as my appreciation for the rest.
  • Regan wrote:
    I have been lurking around here for quite a while now, but I have got to jump in on this one. I am a young woman who only recently discovered the Dalton Bond films and I have the biggest crush imaginable on the man. He was not my first Bond, which is quite funny. For me it was Brosnan. I grew up with him and I remember distinctively that TWINE was the very first Bond film I ever watched. I could recognize how handsome Brosnan is and I totally got why he was so popular with the ladies, but for some reason the character didn’t really click with me until I discovered Dalton much later. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone as attractive as him and yeah, if I could I would freaking marry him (call me a fangirl if you must). I think it’s the combination of intensity with the gorgeous looks and the oh sooo wonderful voice the likes of which I hadn’t heard ever. And of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion because tastes are tastes for a reason, everybody has theirs, but Dalton is so wonderfully gorgeous in my opinion and plenty other women’s opinion too, trust me. I have scoured the internet left, right and center and there are plenty of women who are vocal about it. I’ll leave you with a link:

    http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2011/04/fierce-broody-passion-a-timothy-dalton-tribute

    (by the way, the OP on that post says she didn't like his Bond, but that is her own opinion which is repeatedly rebutted on the comments below by several other women. This mainly deals with Tim and his appeal to women in general, beyond the Bond role).

    I also absolutely despise bashing of any kind to any Bond actor, because I think they all have their merits and are a very clear product of their times. I myself like Craig, I don’t like him as much as Tim because for me Tim embodies every single thing I want in Bond, from the looks to the feel, to the acting. What I will say is I have the utmost respect for every single actor that has so far played the role, even if my appreciation of Lazenby isn’t on the same level as my appreciation for the rest.

    Well said @Regan. I respect your sincerity. :)
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 9
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  • Mother wrote:
    When you look at Moore and Craig you see two extremes. The first one could star in comedies (most of Moore Bond films were in fact comedies) while the second one is a brute. That's why for me those are the two worst Bond interpretations.

    Don't get me wrong - Craig is good but not as Bond. I simply can't imagine him as a commander in the British Navy. The guy has serious problems with discipline. He's just an action hero but not Bond. To quote M: "a blunt instrument".

    Now have a look at the Dalton Bond. He is serious, he can be brutal, he bleeds yet he's a distinguished, eloquent gentleman with a sense of humour. And to say the truth - Dalton's acting abilities greatly surpass those of Craig's. Bond's seriousness was a downside in the late 80s but is his strength right now. Too bad for Dalton. He's the most underrated Bond.

    BTW - after I saw The Tourist I immediately thought of him as the new M:
    2010_the_tourist_010_zps419e1ffe.jpg

    Dalton as M...now there's a possibility
  • Posts: 11,425
    Hooray for Regan! A woman with good taste!

    Have to say, in an entirely heterosexual way, of course, that I would have thought TD was quite a charismatic and good looking chap. However, over the years I have noticed that he is not that popular with the majority of ladies.

    I like Regan's appreciation though. She really gets Dalts. He does have a great voice as well. Very controlled, which I suppose for some makes him too 'stagey' or whatever.
  • That would be interesting indeed. But I don't think it would ever happen. It would draw too much attention.
  • That would be interesting indeed. But I don't think it would ever happen. It would draw too much attention.

    Well having Judi Dench surely dismisses that argument but yea, can see what you mean.
  • That would be interesting indeed. But I don't think it would ever happen. It would draw too much attention.

    Well having Judi Dench surely dismisses that argument but yea, can see what you mean.

    I think it's a bit different. For all that Dench is, she was never Bond. Anytime you have a former Bond re-cast in another role, it screams of stunt casting much more so than in any other possible scenario.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Regan wrote:
    I have been lurking around here for quite a while now, but I have got to jump in on this one. I am a young woman who only recently discovered the Dalton Bond films and I have the biggest crush imaginable on the man. He was not my first Bond, which is quite funny. For me it was Brosnan. I grew up with him and I remember distinctively that TWINE was the very first Bond film I ever watched. I could recognize how handsome Brosnan is and I totally got why he was so popular with the ladies, but for some reason the character didn’t really click with me until I discovered Dalton much later. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone as attractive as him and yeah, if I could I would freaking marry him (call me a fangirl if you must). I think it’s the combination of intensity with the gorgeous looks and the oh sooo wonderful voice the likes of which I hadn’t heard ever. And of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion because tastes are tastes for a reason, everybody has theirs, but Dalton is so wonderfully gorgeous in my opinion and plenty other women’s opinion too, trust me. I have scoured the internet left, right and center and there are plenty of women who are vocal about it. I’ll leave you with a link:

    http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2011/04/fierce-broody-passion-a-timothy-dalton-tribute

    (by the way, the OP on that post says she didn't like his Bond, but that is her own opinion which is repeatedly rebutted on the comments below by several other women. This mainly deals with Tim and his appeal to women in general, beyond the Bond role).

    I also absolutely despise bashing of any kind to any Bond actor, because I think they all have their merits and are a very clear product of their times. I myself like Craig, I don’t like him as much as Tim because for me Tim embodies every single thing I want in Bond, from the looks to the feel, to the acting. What I will say is I have the utmost respect for every single actor that has so far played the role, even if my appreciation of Lazenby isn’t on the same level as my appreciation for the rest.

    I love what you wrote and had to say so! This beautiful woman I wrote about earlier liked Dalton for similar reasons you described. She was tired of most men approaching her and liked Dalton because she thought he would pay little attention to her. And she knew she was pretty. Of course Dalton can be the charmer with women if he needs to. But she could not stand men that saw women as casual conquests and also because her father left her mother when she was young, she hated the womanising Bonds.

    She also loved Dalton because she felt she could talk with him on a deep level. But she made it clear that his looks and intensity in the eyes knocked her off her chair. He was her ideal man because of his experience in life too!

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Mother wrote:

    Don't get me wrong - Craig is good but not as Bond. I simply can't imagine him as a commander in the British Navy. The guy has serious problems with discipline. He's just an action hero but not Bond. To quote M: "a blunt instrument".

    Now have a look at the Dalton Bond. He is serious, he can be brutal, he bleeds yet he's a distinguished, eloquent gentleman with a sense of humour. And to say the truth - Dalton's acting abilities greatly surpass those of Craig's. Bond's seriousness was a downside in the late 80s but is his strength right now. Too bad for Dalton. He's the most underrated Bond.
    Well, when I went to see Bond when TD took over I can assure you everyone was ready for a serious Bond. Dalton simply wasn't a big screen leading man. I'm sure his subsequent career would have been more distinguished if he had been.
    But as I say, a serious Bond was an exciting prospect. Calling Craig a Bond 'with serious problems with discipline' after enduring the crazed antics of LTK, is quite....interesting. Both actors play Bond like he is a man living on the edge, but to miss the humour in Craig's Bond just because he chooses a more subtle approach is a shame. All the Bonds have humour, some less pronounced.

    In my eyes Craig is twice the actor Dalton is. Both have great reputations and excellent CVs, but Craig has subtlety that screen acting requires. Watch his smaller independent films, or some of his TV work.

    I understand why people can't accept him as Bond, I really can. But to lead a film with a cast like SF has, and not be overwhelmed for one second is proof of Craig's abilities.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Getafix wrote:
    Hooray for Regan! A woman with good taste!

    Have to say, in an entirely heterosexual way, of course, that I would have thought TD was quite a charismatic and good looking chap. However, over the years I have noticed that he is not that popular with the majority of ladies.

    I like Regan's appreciation though. She really gets Dalts. He does have a great voice as well. Very controlled, which I suppose for some makes him too 'stagey' or whatever.

    I think the not popular with the ladies is something the media played a role in. Some people are sheep and will copy a popular though untrue opinion just to fit in.

    Over the years I have noticed that some people will have an opinion on an actor without seeing them in a film. I remember one person told me Sean Connery was great in Moonraker. That says it all!

    But Dalton has had some pretty women in his life. I remember Brooke Shields was attracted to him when he was doing Brenda Starr. And women loved him in Jane Eyre.

    I also learned that we live in a very dumbed down society where less people are able to have the courage to think for themselves. That's why I like Marilyn Manson!:)

  • Posts: 6,601
    [quote="acoppolaI think the not popular with the ladies is something the media played a role in. Some people are sheep and will copy a popular though untrue opinion just to fit in.
    Over the years I have noticed that some people will have an opinion on an actor without seeing them in a film. I remember one person told me Sean Connery was great in Moonraker. That says it all!

    But Dalton has had some pretty women in his life. I remember Brooke Shields was attracted to him when he was doing Brenda Starr. And women loved him in Jane Eyre.

    I also learned that we live in a very dumbed down society where less people are able to have the courage to think for themselves. That's why I like Marilyn Manson!:)

    [/quote]

    Oh please, now its the Media, whose fault it is, Daltoin wasn't popular with the Ladies or at all. Read your own post. If you feel, its necessary to point out, that you have met a few gals, who liked him to make your point, that says it all. I am not against him, but I am against trying to fight, what is a proven fact.
    For you, whatever made him fail, its never anything to do with him, which I think, is a bit ... like I said, why not be good with him having fans as opposed to try to make him the second coming. He was not. All of the other 4 were more successful. (taking the freedom to exclude Lazenby)
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Germanlady wrote:
    [quote="acoppolaI think the not popular with the ladies is something the media played a role in. Some people are sheep and will copy a popular though untrue opinion just to fit in.
    Over the years I have noticed that some people will have an opinion on an actor without seeing them in a film. I remember one person told me Sean Connery was great in Moonraker. That says it all!

    But Dalton has had some pretty women in his life. I remember Brooke Shields was attracted to him when he was doing Brenda Starr. And women loved him in Jane Eyre.

    I also learned that we live in a very dumbed down society where less people are able to have the courage to think for themselves. That's why I like Marilyn Manson!:)

    Oh please, now its the Media, whose fault it is, Daltoin wasn't popular with the Ladies or at all. Read your own post. If you feel, its necessary to point out, that you have met a few gals, who liked him to make your point, that says it all. I am not against him, but I am against trying to fight, what is a proven fact.
    For you, whatever made him fail, its never anything to do with him, which I think, is a bit ... like I said, why not be good with him having fans as opposed to try to make him the second coming. He was not. All of the other 4 were more successful. (taking the freedom to exclude Lazenby)[/quote]

    Dalton did not fail as Bond. He had the misfortune of the year legal battle which prevented him from continuing. Make no mistake, but with Bond there is some crazy rule that you have to at least do three to be considered great. An actor should be good from day one in a film.


    Had Sony decided to cancel Bond until 2014 then I doubt Craig would hang about that long. And the industry would want a new Bond to start the series fresh. And Craig would be in that same situation Dalton was.

    The Dalton was not popular with the ladies is an assertion you are basing on what? What you read in the newspaper by a dumb tabloid journalist? Because what you are asserting is as if you took to the majority of women in the world.

    You say what you say because of what you read by a few people in the press. And few being operative. The media does play a role. They almost killed Craig's chances when he was cast and they were nasty about it. They changed their tune but the knives will come out again.


  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    [quote="acoppolaI think the not popular with the ladies is something the media played a role in. Some people are sheep and will copy a popular though untrue opinion just to fit in.
    Over the years I have noticed that some people will have an opinion on an actor without seeing them in a film. I remember one person told me Sean Connery was great in Moonraker. That says it all!

    But Dalton has had some pretty women in his life. I remember Brooke Shields was attracted to him when he was doing Brenda Starr. And women loved him in Jane Eyre.

    I also learned that we live in a very dumbed down society where less people are able to have the courage to think for themselves. That's why I like Marilyn Manson!:)

    Oh please, now its the Media, whose fault it is, Daltoin wasn't popular with the Ladies or at all. Read your own post. If you feel, its necessary to point out, that you have met a few gals, who liked him to make your point, that says it all. I am not against him, but I am against trying to fight, what is a proven fact.
    For you, whatever made him fail, its never anything to do with him, which I think, is a bit ... like I said, why not be good with him having fans as opposed to try to make him the second coming. He was not. All of the other 4 were more successful. (taking the freedom to exclude Lazenby)

    Dalton did not fail as Bond. He had the misfortune of the 6 year legal battle which prevented him from continuing. Make no mistake, but with Bond there is some crazy rule that you have to at least do three to be considered great. An actor should be good from day one in a film.


    Had Sony decided to cancel Bond until 2014 then I doubt Craig would hang about that long. And the industry would want a new Bond to start the series fresh. And Craig would be in that same situation Dalton was.

    The Dalton was not popular with the ladies is an assertion you are basing on what? What you read in the newspaper by a dumb tabloid journalist? Because what you are asserting is as if you talked to the majority of women in the world.

    You say what you say because of what you read by a few people in the press. And few being operative. The media does play a role. They almost killed Craig's chances when he was cast and they were nasty about it. They changed their tune but the knives will come out again.


    [/quote]

  • edited December 2021 Posts: 9
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  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Mother wrote:
    When you look at Moore and Craig you see two extremes. The first one could star in comedies (most of Moore Bond films were in fact comedies) while the second one is a brute. That's why for me those are the two worst Bond interpretations.

    Don't get me wrong - Craig is good but not as Bond. I simply can't imagine him as a commander in the British Navy. The guy has serious problems with discipline. He's just an action hero but not Bond. To quote M: "a blunt instrument".

    Now have a look at the Dalton Bond. He is serious, he can be brutal, he bleeds yet he's a distinguished, eloquent gentleman with a sense of humour. And to say the truth - Dalton's acting abilities greatly surpass those of Craig's. Bond's seriousness was a downside in the late 80s but is his strength right now. Too bad for Dalton. He's the most underrated Bond.

    BTW - after I saw The Tourist I immediately thought of him as the new M:
    2010_the_tourist_010_zps419e1ffe.jpg

    I do agree that Craig can overplay the thug. I remember one critic saying you may as well have Jason Statham playing Bond.

    And there are elements of the Bourne action style in the new Bond which is a mistake in the long run. Your greatness as Bond is always judged after you leave the series and not during. Brosnan is a case in point.No one talks about him like they used to.

    The success of Bourne factored in Sony's decision to hire Craig as Bond. Because he was initially viewed as a strange successor to the classic looking Brosnan that the public did like.

  • edited October 2012 Posts: 173
    Germanlady wrote:
    Oh please, now its the Media, whose fault it is, Daltoin wasn't popular with the Ladies or at all. Read your own post. If you feel, its necessary to point out, that you have met a few gals, who liked him to make your point, that says it all. I am not against him, but I am against trying to fight, what is a proven fact.
    For you, whatever made him fail, its never anything to do with him, which I think, is a bit ... like I said, why not be good with him having fans as opposed to try to make him the second coming. He was not. All of the other 4 were more successful. (taking the freedom to exclude Lazenby)

    What is a proven fact, exactly? That his films were the least successful? These fillms keep being praised and more often than not appear quite high in most rankings not just from diehard fans. We could go on and on about how much of a proven fact it is that TLD was so well critically received and just how many people liked and appreciated LTK for what it brought even back when it first premiered. We could play fact games all day.

    Maybe what @acoppola has been trying to say is that several things led to Dalton being perceived as the "fail" you claim him to be. That is understandable... the guy only had two movies and two movies is not enough to fully establish yourself or to ease into the role with total comfort. Look at Craig, one great movie and one big dissapointment (and it's his third role that struck the balance). Third time's a charm? Perhaps. In any event, saying Dalton failed is something I consider rather too simplistic. It's just one of these regurgitated mantras most people keep repeating because they've got an uninformed impression of things from both circumstance and the media.

    If you dislike Dalton so much, fair enough. It drips form your every word, and it's really rather evident just how passionately you hate his performance. I get it. Things are just a little more complex than you make them sound though, and quite a few of us have a differing opinion to yours. I respect yours, you have every right to like or dislike whoever. But that is just it, your opinion.

    (thanks! @Getafix, @acoppola and @wildboonjive)
  • Regan wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    Oh please, now its the Media, whose fault it is, Daltoin wasn't popular with the Ladies or at all. Read your own post. If you feel, its necessary to point out, that you have met a few gals, who liked him to make your point, that says it all. I am not against him, but I am against trying to fight, what is a proven fact.
    For you, whatever made him fail, its never anything to do with him, which I think, is a bit ... like I said, why not be good with him having fans as opposed to try to make him the second coming. He was not. All of the other 4 were more successful. (taking the freedom to exclude Lazenby)

    What is a proven fact, exactly? That his films were the least successful? These fillms keep being praised and more often than not appear quite high in most rankings not just from diehard fans. We could go on and on about how much of a proven fact it is that TLD was so well critically received and just how many people liked and appreciated LTK for what it brought even back when it first premiered. We could play fact games all day.

    Maybe what @acoppola has been trying to say is that several things led to Dalton being perceived as the "fail" you claim him to be. That is understandable... the guy only had two movies and two movies is not enough to fully establish yourself or to ease into the role with total comfort. Look at Craig, one great movie and one big dissapointment (and it's his third role that struck the balance). Third time's a charm? Perhaps. In any event, saying Dalton failed is something I consider rather too simplistic. It's just one of these regurgitated mantras most people keep repeating because they've got an uninformed impression of things from both circumstance and the media.

    If you dislike Dalton so much, fair enough. It drips form your every word, and it's really rather evident just how passionately you hate his performance. I get it. Things are just a little more complex than you make them sound though, and quite a few of us have a differing opinion to yours. I respect yours, you have every right to like or dislike whoever. But that is just it, your opinion.

    (thanks! @Getafix, @acoppola and @wildboonjive)

    Again, very well said @Regan. Though I personally prefer Craig's interpretation of Bond over Dalton's, I think you have nonetheless stated your points quite eloquently and with much intelligence. You've made a great argument.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 6,601
    acoppola wrote:
    Dalton did not fail as Bond. He had the misfortune of the 6 year legal battle which prevented him from continuing. Make no mistake, but with Bond there is some crazy rule that you have to at least do three to be considered great. An actor should be good from day one in a film.

    ALL the other 4 Bonds were much more popular after their first two movies.


    Had Sony decided to cancel Bond until 2014 then I doubt Craig would hang about that long. And the industry would want a new Bond to start the series fresh. And Craig would be in that same situation Dalton was.

    No, he would not have been in the same situation, because he already had made a much bigger impact after his two

    The Dalton was not popular with the ladies is an assertion you are basing on what? What you read in the newspaper by a dumb tabloid journalist? Because what you are asserting is as if you talked to the majority of women in the world.

    Nothing the papers write has a great impact on what the fans finally decide or me. If that had been so, DC would have been a dead fish in the water after his first film. Female audiences are an important part of the Bond franchise. After all, the hero is a man, who is supposed to draw in women. So - had Tim been popular with the Ladies, they would have watched his films in greater numbers.

    You say what you say because of what you read by a few people in the press. And few being operative. The media does play a role. They almost killed Craig's chances when he was cast and they were nasty about it. They changed their tune but the knives will come out again.

    Then tell me, WHY they changed their tune. The did it, because there was no way around it. He blew them all away. And why was that so? Because he had build up a huge fan base with guys AND gals equally. And why was that so? Because obviously he had something, Dalton was missing. No more, no less. What's so hard to acept. Connery had it. Moore had it, Brosnan had it. Dalton didn't or his films had been more sucessful.

    Like I said, I have nothing against him and certainly there is no hate dripping from my words. I am just not sure, why people insist on making him someting, he is quite obviously not. Just for some, but not for the majority. All the others have a mu bigger fans base - to this day.



  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,425
    Regan is a very welcome new member of the Daltonites.

    I just watched HaphazardStuff's CR review and as usual I agreed with pretty much everything he said (does he just copy and paste from my posts... Hmmm.)

    First of all, before the negative stuff, I like DC a lot and have enjoyed both his performances so far (looking forward to seeing SF when I get a chance too).

    But as HH points out he can be a little bit too indestructible. And there are a few sequences, like where he uses the digger in the CR chase where you feel more for the bad guy than you do for Bond. That's not actually Craig's fault and is more down to script and direction, but I think it's something they need to watch. Same with the digger on the train in the Skyfall trailer. It makes Bond into the relentless unstoppable machine, when that part should be played by the villain's henchmen.

    And as HH also points out, Dalts was doing all this 'edgy' Bond stuff decades ago.

    Any way, a minor quibble with what is generally an excellent, commanding take on Bond.

    That said, I still love Dalts, particularly in TLD. May be I will change my mind after seeing SF but right now Dalts still has the edge. Dalts and Craig are in a battle for 3rd place IMO.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Regan wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    Oh please, now its the Media, whose fault it is, Daltoin wasn't popular with the Ladies or at all. Read your own post. If you feel, its necessary to point out, that you have met a few gals, who liked him to make your point, that says it all. I am not against him, but I am against trying to fight, what is a proven fact.
    For you, whatever made him fail, its never anything to do with him, which I think, is a bit ... like I said, why not be good with him having fans as opposed to try to make him the second coming. He was not. All of the other 4 were more successful. (taking the freedom to exclude Lazenby)

    What is a proven fact, exactly? That his films were the least successful? These fillms keep being praised and more often than not appear quite high in most rankings not just from diehard fans. We could go on and on about how much of a proven fact it is that TLD was so well critically received and just how many people liked and appreciated LTK for what it brought even back when it first premiered. We could play fact games all day.

    Maybe what @acoppola has been trying to say is that several things led to Dalton being perceived as the "fail" you claim him to be. That is understandable... the guy only had two movies and two movies is not enough to fully establish yourself or to ease into the role with total comfort. Look at Craig, one great movie and one big dissapointment (and it's his third role that struck the balance). Third time's a charm? Perhaps. In any event, saying Dalton failed is something I consider rather too simplistic. It's just one of these regurgitated mantras most people keep repeating because they've got an uninformed impression of things from both circumstance and the media.

    If you dislike Dalton so much, fair enough. It drips form your every word, and it's really rather evident just how passionately you hate his performance. I get it. Things are just a little more complex than you make them sound though, and quite a few of us have a differing opinion to yours. I respect yours, you have every right to like or dislike whoever. But that is just it, your opinion.

    (thanks! @Getafix, @acoppola and @wildboonjive)

    Don't mind GL Regan. She means well. I think.
  • Posts: 6,601
    I am really asking out of interest here. Wasn't Bond always meant to be stronger then his enemies? I thought, the saying is, that DC brought back some of the more vulnerability, meaing Bond doesn't have the upper hand always. Shouldn't Bond give out the "larger then life" vibes?
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 6,601
    @Regan - I don't think, I am going over the top in anyting I say. I believe, I am not bashing the man but rather give reasons, why I believe, what I do. What is wrong in that for you? And please be a bit more restraint in calling me a Dalton hater. i am not.
    Those here, who know me by now, know, that i am rather outspoken and are used to it. I don't mean to be offensive.

    BTW - thanks Getafix.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,425
    I disagree. Bond is supposed to be able to look after himself but he is not supposed to be a superman. Connery was always getting ruffed up and Moore looked positively weedy compared to many of his foes. The classic fight set-up is versus preferably a very large henchman who starts by throwing Bond around a lot and who is only defeated by some cunning trick - electrocuting Oddjob, using the magnet on Jaws's teeth etc.

    DC's Bond has had some good vulnerable scenes like the torture scene but he hasn't taken a really good beating from anyone yet, where he properly loses the fight and gets hauled off for an interrogation. I think one of the reasons I like TND over Brozza's other films is that there is a good traditional scene where Carver's mean give Bond a good kicking. Or may be it's just the sight of Brosnan getting beaten up.... Any way, you get my point.

    I'm not the only one to comment that DC is a bit Terminator at times. Hopefully Mendes has addressed this issue in SF. I understand Bond is a bit old, bruised and battered in SF, which I like the sound of.

    What I found repeatedly in CR is that I was always sympathizing with the villain. Le Chiffre is always having his plans messed up by Bond and is not only being chased by Bond but has all the other bad guys after him too. He deserves a break!

    And that bit with the digger in the CR chase just always felt wrong to me. It's not Bond's style. And now they've done the same with the train scene in SF. Any way, like I say, these are minor quibbles with an otherwise very solid Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    acoppola wrote:
    Your greatness as Bond is always judged after you leave the series and not during. Brosnan is a case in point.No one talks about him like they used to.
    I do. He's still great, no matter what anyone says! I just prefer Dalton. And funny, my Wife says Bros is very easy on her eyes, but Dalt is the one she'd target in a crowded room to stare at ( she says Craig just looks okay).
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Just watching HH's CR now. He's dead on when he says the majority of today's audiences's don't really worry about Fleming's Bond. They probably haven't even picked up a book. It's all about leading man charisma and the ability to carry a film.

    "DC's Bond has had some good vulnerable scenes like the torture scene but he hasn't taken a really good beating from anyone yet"

    Really? You don't call getting your testicles bashed a good beating? That's one of the very few scenes in the whole of the series that makes me wince everytime.

    (and I couldn't give a crap about the bombmaker being chased by Bond in the bulldozer - he is a bombmaker afterall - we aren't meant to feel sorry for him)

    Bond also commands the flamethrowing "dragon" at the end of the Dr No novel. Were we meant to feel sorry for the poor bad guys then? Of course not.
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