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Bond's Military Demotion

MichaelMichael
edited April 2011 in Literary 007 Posts: 13
In John Gardner's Win Lose or Die, James Bond was promoted to the rank of Captain and retained this rank through the rest of Mr Gardner's books.

However, when Raymond Benson took over "the mantle", he returned Bond to the rank of Commander. For a senior officer such as a Captain to be demoted to Commander would have been the result of SERIOUS misconduct so what happened?

It might be a case of a new author putting HIS stamp on the character by making him new, but there were many references to previous characters, including those when Bond was a Captain.

Comments

  • JobeGDGJobeGDG
    edited April 2011 Posts: 107
    Welcome to the MI6 Community, Michael!

    Re: Benson demoting Bond
    If it looks like inattention to detail, smells like inattention to detail, and reads like inattention to detail, well…
  • Mr_SterlingMr_Sterling
    Posts: 99
    Seems a bit bizarre that Bond was even promoted to Captain when not even serving in the Navy. The big ideas club struck again me thinks!
  • The_Preacher711The_Preacher711
    Posts: 139
    I personally always saw Benson's novels more as a spin-off from the movies and not a direct continuation of Fleming/Gardner.

    Quoting Mr_Sterling: Seems a bit bizarre that Bond was even promoted to Captain when not even serving
    in the Navy.
    As for that- you're dead right Mr Sterling... I'm a Civil Servant myself, so have encountered many other Officers who have been brought in from various arms of the forces. Their ranks are converted into a 'grade' and they would have a job/position title- but their rank would be lost.

    Bond keeping his 'Commander' would have been true in Flemings day, but was gone by the 80s.


  • sHell_Is_HeresHell_Is_Here
    Posts: 30
    Quoting The_Preacher711: Their ranks are converted into a 'grade' and they would have a job/position title- but their rank would be lost.
    Perhaps this is exactly what happened? Bond could have finally been compartmentalized into his position with the SIS, officially stripped of his rank of Captain, and given the job/position title of "Intelligence Commander" or "Paperwork Commander" or something equally droll.

    He's getting rather old now, so Desk Commander Bond sounds about right.
  • The_Preacher711The_Preacher711
    Posts: 139
    Bond's Pay Grade would be a very dull 'Higher Executive Officer' (HEO) under the current system.....
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2014 Posts: 18,274
    Michael wrote:
    In John Gardner's Win Lose or Die, James Bond was promoted to the rank of Captain and retained this rank through the rest of Mr Gardner's books.

    However, when Raymond Benson took over "the mantle", he returned Bond to the rank of Commander. For a senior officer such as a Captain to be demoted to Commander would have been the result of SERIOUS misconduct so what happened?

    It might be a case of a new author putting HIS stamp on the character by making him new, but there were many references to previous characters, including those when Bond was a Captain.

    Yes, this was actually a case of the proverbial new broom sweeping clean. Raymond Benson wished to return James Bond to the character Fleming originally created, so he had Bond go back to being a Commander again, brought back the Walther PPK as his firearm etc. It's a new take on the literary Bond, and as such it only has continuity with the Fleming originals, although from time to time he does reference Gardner novels and characters, but the main fidelity is with the Fleming source material contained in the twelve Bond novels and two short story collections, and that's no bad thing as far as I'm concerned. Beninese said in an interview once that he saw the Fleming novels and stories very much as the base and that the later continuations merely built on this basis with varying degrees and extents of fidelity since Colonel Sun by Robert Markham was released in March 1968. Glidrose (now IFP) told Benson he could use or discard or ignore anything from the Continuations and start with a clean slate, so there's your answer I think, @Michael, albeit about three years' late. I hope you're not a stickler for time, but those are my thoughts on the issue nonetheless!

    Case closed?
  • XXXXXX Banned
    Posts: 132
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Michael wrote:
    In John Gardner's Win Lose or Die, James Bond was promoted to the rank of Captain and retained this rank through the rest of Mr Gardner's books.

    However, when Raymond Benson took over "the mantle", he returned Bond to the rank of Commander. For a senior officer such as a Captain to be demoted to Commander would have been the result of SERIOUS misconduct so what happened?

    It might be a case of a new author putting HIS stamp on the character by making him new, but there were many references to previous characters, including those when Bond was a Captain.

    Yes, this was actually a case of the proverbial new broom sweeping clean. Raymond Benson wished to return James Bond to the character Fleming originally created, so he had Bond go back to being a Commander again, brought back the Walther PPK as his firearm etc. It's a new take on the literary Bond, and as such it only has continuity with the Fleming originals, although from time to time he does reference Gardner novels and characters, but the main fidelity is with the Fleming source material contained in the twelve Bond novels and two short story collections, and that's no bad thing as far as I'm concerned. Beninese said in an interview once that he saw the Fleming novels and stories very much as the base and that the later continuations merely built on this basis with varying degrees and extents of fidelity since Colonel Sun by Robert Markham was released in March 1968. Glidrose (now IFP) told Benson he could use or discard or ignore anything from the Continuations and start with a clean slate, so there's your answer I think, @Michael, albeit about three years' late. I hope you're not a stickler for time, but those are my thoughts on the issue nonetheless!

    Case closed?
    I think not so, they could always write more books.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,274
    XXX wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Michael wrote:
    In John Gardner's Win Lose or Die, James Bond was promoted to the rank of Captain and retained this rank through the rest of Mr Gardner's books.

    However, when Raymond Benson took over "the mantle", he returned Bond to the rank of Commander. For a senior officer such as a Captain to be demoted to Commander would have been the result of SERIOUS misconduct so what happened?

    It might be a case of a new author putting HIS stamp on the character by making him new, but there were many references to previous characters, including those when Bond was a Captain.

    Yes, this was actually a case of the proverbial new broom sweeping clean. Raymond Benson wished to return James Bond to the character Fleming originally created, so he had Bond go back to being a Commander again, brought back the Walther PPK as his firearm etc. It's a new take on the literary Bond, and as such it only has continuity with the Fleming originals, although from time to time he does reference Gardner novels and characters, but the main fidelity is with the Fleming source material contained in the twelve Bond novels and two short story collections, and that's no bad thing as far as I'm concerned. Beninese said in an interview once that he saw the Fleming novels and stories very much as the base and that the later continuations merely built on this basis with varying degrees and extents of fidelity since Colonel Sun by Robert Markham was released in March 1968. Glidrose (now IFP) told Benson he could use or discard or ignore anything from the Continuations and start with a clean slate, so there's your answer I think, @Michael, albeit about three years' late. I hope you're not a stickler for time, but those are my thoughts on the issue nonetheless!

    Case closed?
    I think not so, they could always write more books.

    Well, true, but none of the new authors (Faulks, Deaver and Boyd) have put James Bond back to being a Captain so I really can't see it, plus Commander sounds much better and more thrilling than Captain. So, I still think case closed.
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