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Has anyone who's seen it multiple times got a better handle on this sub-plot?
When I watched it again on Saturday I paid close attention as it still baffles me. I'm still no closer to knowing. What I find strange is that there is the entire pursuit from Shanghai airport plus the fist fight to simply have Bond find a casino chip. There was surely a more exhilerating way of doing this and one that didn't involve an incidental scene that appeared to be relevant but had no real reason for existing.
That's what was being inferred? I never realized that! Holy crap.
I think so too. I can hear Scaramanga saying "a mistress cannot serve two masters" and Silva seemed to ascribe to that.
1.) How did the train in Turkey press on after having a crane smashed through the roof of one cab, and another few cabs had been derailed?
2.) Where did Patrice get the pistol from when arriving in Shanghai? From the text, I surmise he arrived on a commercial flight, so how did he acquire a pistol?
He had a field contact who supplied him? Maybe he stole it from the MI6 agents.
I was thinking he could have just had a contact in the airport, but I figured that would be important enough to show in the film.
In the script, Severine covertly exchanges the briefcase to Patrice on an escalator. The case may have contained both the rifle and the pistol. They shot the scene but cut it from the film.
If it had stayed in the film, the scene where Bond is dressed as the driver would have continued to see Bond follow Patrice, and see the exchange.
I thought you meant in the PTS.
Well Bond obviously couldn't alert the police as he was in pursuit but he knew his best chance was alerting Tanner. I think it makes sense. Also, the metal detector likely made a sound of some sort (the shot had a background sound of M still talking instead of what was on screen) and it would have alerted the men standing there but obviously they weren't able to do anything once they were dead.
They're just scenes you have to accept and not nitpick. Like I asked the other day: how does the train in Istanbul manage to continue after having a carriage hatch ripped open, and another few carriages detached? Because it continues the scene.
If the train stopped, it would have been a ruined action set-piece.
If someone stopped Bond after exiting the emergency door, then M would most likely be dead and the film couldn't continue.
If Bond froze to death in the water...well, goodbye, Bond series.
I agree he definitely isn't gay (I'm not quite getting why anyone would think that he is, anyway), but I don't see any actual reason to think he's bi, either. Why would he be? Because he has a female lover and fondles Bond? Not so sure about that. Besides, that's assuming he can be thus categorized. I liked what Craig said about how he saw the character as someone who is "undefined" and who "would f*** anything". Makes perfect sense. As for that little scene with Bond, I didn't see it as primarily sexual at all, though I haven't quite decided to what extent I think it was (if any... I do suspect some, but not sure).
I totally agree with this. Silva would never again allow others to tell him what to do or to have any kind of boss.
Why would he not be? It's slightly ambiguous which is what is good about it. I think it's reasonable to assume that Silva is either bisexual or, as we never actually see him with anyone, asexual. Either way he's certainly not heterosexual.
Did you read the rest of what I wrote?
Why would he not be bi? I didn't say there's a reason to think he isn't, but that there is no reason to think he is. :)
Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?
Anyway, I also like that it's not clear at all. I'll go with Dan's assessment. : B-)
Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.
So to you Silva "appears" to be gay? Oh. In what way?
I had a strong sense when watching the film that there must have been several key scenes that were lost in the edit. Given how long the length of the PTS and the endless explosions in the finale I really think Mendes could have found time for more explanation and old fashioned story telling. The film just jumps around incoherently at times.
The lake fight bothered me too. Especially after Bond's unexplained survival at the start of the film by the time he magically appears in the chapel I just felt the film makers were treating the audience like idiots without even an attempt to provide credibility to the plot.
Come back invisible car! All is forgiven!
He embodies the traits a stereotypical homosexual would, provocative sexual foreplay with a male, a flamboyance in his physical demeanour (not only the island, look at the way he casually tosses a grenade into Skyfall) and an intonation in his speech. Now, like I say, this is stereotypical but I wouldn't expect P+W to scratch below the surface so I took it at face value.
I think Silva is gay probably but likes beautiful women. This is not exactly unusual.
I would have loved to learn more about Severine. She had the potential to be the best thing about SF. Bloody annoying when her character just gets tossed aside by P+W.
I wouldn't want to sacrifice her death scene as it was a fine bit of acting from both her and Craig/
I'm not getting into what P+W might or might not scratch, especially since they weren't the only people involved in writing the script. But.
Maybe it's a cultural thing or something, but I didn't take his physical demeanor, flamboyance, or his intonation as even stereotypically gay. (That would have been very, very bad stereotypical.) I also didn't take his sexual harassment of Bond as primarily sexual, but more a game. Poker. And while Bond squirmed ever so slightly, he didn't blink. Kept his cool. Won that game. They were sparring with each other all the way through and that scene was just part of that. Silva was trying to get under Bond's skin... and again when they went outdoors after it... Bond deflected both attempts verbally - at least on the surface (what he showed to Silva). For Silva to use sexual harassment was very clever of him. He obviously would have known Bond had been tortured before (as of course Silva himself had been), and took an opposite approach - instead of extreme violence he resorted to extreme tenderness. Visually the Skyfall scene is like a negative, or a twisted mirror image of the Casino Royale torture scene - colours, lighting, clothing/lack of. Both had sexual undertones. It's hardly possible to touch another person more tenderly than Silva did, using mere fingertips, just barely touching - well, until he got to the legs to give a firmer stroke and a little squeeze... sort of like a full stop at the end of a sentence... or, rather, a question mark in this case. Anyway, it was all very gentle. It did still have an effect, Bond's discomfort was obvious enough even though he tried his best not to show it. Silva's tactic was working pretty well, better than violence would have. Here's this alpha male, likely to take a severe beating without crumbling, but challenge him sexually and it might be another thing altogether. Certainly worth a try. So Silva just goes for it, possibly noticing he kinda likes it, it's an interesting experiment for sure. Well, to me he looks like he's exploring a brand new toy at one point. I rather thought it might have been his first time.
I don't know. Just a few thoughts I had. Happy to discuss and argue. :)