Too much CGI in Skyfall ? Or just Obvious CGI that wasn't needed ?

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The particular shot I'm giving the background of is definitely cgi, it lasts only a few seconds, in the theater I even noticed blue screen slight problem around the silhouettes... What was "outdoor" but filmed in Pinewood is mostly once Silva and Bond go out to meet Severine again, the camera actually never show something very high except for the cgi helicopters at the very end + some short very static shot in which there are some cgi to make the upper storeys I'm quite sure. I actually was bothered to "see" so blatanly they never put a foot on the real island, I think one Bond element I "need" are the huge real sets, although it's so expensive compared to cgi that it may well never be done again like in YOLT or TSWLM...

    Everything you say here is 100% accurate. I agree on the real sets. Please EON, I beg you!

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    RC7 wrote:
    Gerard wrote:
    I haven't noticed any CGI. I was too busy enjoying the movie to be bothered by that.

    I'm always baffled by comments like this. People don't go into films looking for CGI, it's just quite obvious when it is present in a shot.

    Must admit I haven't met anyone who has mentioned CGI. It may be my age but I noticed non of it, afraid I agree with @Gerard. However I am filled with admiration for those he pick these things out. I don't mean that sarcastically either.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 2,015
    NicNac wrote:
    However I am filled with admiration for those he pick these things out. I don't mean that sarcastically either.
    I have to say I worked a bit on that domain (some tool for previz a looong time ago)... So when the camera goes weirdly super static for a wide shot sometimes I think, hm, was it to make the cgi budget less expensive for that shot ? (usually to remove something that should not be there).
    But I'm interested, did the scenes in the island convey the feeling it was a large place to you ? I don't mean it looked like something from a BBC studio, but well, to me it's something totally different from the opening's use of a real location for instance : you felt it was quite "real" to say the least when they were on top of that train. There were still some CGI on top of the train (removal of safety wires obviously for a start) but it was not I think "major" CGI like the short fall on the bus in QOS.


  • I think the term 'CGI' is quickly becoming a euphemism for 'special effects wot I noticed'. A lot of the CGI refered to in this thread is actually just green/blue screen, a modern replacement for front or rear projection.
    CGI is Computer Generated Imagary: I don't think editing something digitally that was filmed with a digital camera (ie the whole film!) would count as CGI. Things that were created from scratch in the computer would include parts of Silva's distorted face, the scorpion, the Komodo dragons, and these are noticeable as they are all quite out of the ordinary and the camera lingers on them - I'm sure there were dozens of examples of other little tricks we didn't notice as they were so glossed over - people added to crowds, bullet holes, rubble, sparks, skylines, smoke, gun muzzle flashes, explosions, lens flares or enlarging sets for example. After Effects can be very useful!
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 2,015
    A lot of the CGI refered to in this thread is actually just green/blue screen, a modern replacement for front or rear projection.

    Except that the island for instance was also modified/reconstructed for the few plans we talk about (removal of the wild plants at least), it's not the real thing, it's probably not real at all I think.

    The irony is that because of budget concern, most of these plans are static, which make indeed look them a bit like the old projection method (in theses cases, with the true location on film, or a model). Green/Blue screen, theoretically, offer the possibility to move the camera a lot, something very limited with the old method.
    Things that were created from scratch in the computer would include (...) the scorpion, the Komodo dragons,

    Well, they took photos and videos of real scorpions and real Komodo dragons to reconstruct them with CGI, a bit like the above...

    Btw, the walk on the Komodo dragon is for many a reference to LALD's scene. But while the latter scene is now a very well known scene in Bond history, do you think the same will be said for this Skyfall scene ?
    I'm sure there were dozens of examples of other little tricks we didn't notice as they were so glossed over - people added to crowds, bullet holes, rubble, sparks, skylines, smoke, gun muzzle flashes, explosions, lens flares or enlarging sets for example. After Effects can be very useful!

    There are 500 CGI shots according to some newspaper. And actually I think a lot of them are for removing things from the screen, not adding them (safety wires, safety pads, etc).

    The problem I have, and I seem not to be alone, is when CGI meets iconic parts of the franchise. The CGI large sets that are not so large anymore, and that LALD tribute that replaces incredible real danger with zero danger, are two good examples.

    It's like a car jump : we know the beginning, the middle, and the end of a car jump are often three different takes, but yet the danger is still there. In one Besson movie with the Julienne team, a real car jump went so bad (death of a cameraman) that they ended with a CGI car in the movie for that scene, and it was alas a failure of DAD proportion (and not even funny to laugh at when you knew the reason). But when CGI will be good enough to make convincing CGI cars for a movie stunt, will the real stunts continue and be so remembered ? Does anyone remember action scenes from videogame cinematics frankly ?

  • Posts: 15,123
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I didn't notice too much CGI in Skyfall but it's not something I was even looking for, it didn't seem as prevalent as some recent Bond releases from the one viewing. Maybe CGI has no place in James Bond some would argue. We're merely at an age now where it will become more prominent or used in general movie making now, which some will take issue with, but times will change

    The one thing that bothered me with CGI in the film was how noticeable it was in Patrice's death, yet the shot we saw in all of the pre-release trailers and spots was him falling in slow motion, and it was a realistic shot. I wonder why they changed it.

    I didn't notice it, or don't remember noticing it as CGI. Something different happened to me: when I saw the trailer, I thought Bond jumping in the train after breaiking it open looked quite fake, but in the movie I thought it looked real. Not even sure if it changed or if was just my state of mind that made me buy it in cinema,
  • The only slight problem I had was the Komodo Dragons and even they didn't bother me enough for it to be a big deal. I thought that the CGI involved with Silva taking his dentures out actually added to it a bit.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I don't know if this has been posted. It deals with the Komodo scene. I liked the scene.
    http://www.awn.com/articles/visual-effects/bond-gets-cg-komodo-dragon-skyfall
  • Posts: 10
    Bit late in the day like, but in the introduction scene there are quite a few little CGI scene's slotted in, which people haven't mentioned. It's mostly shots, but nevertheless.

    Most of the external wide angle train shots in the chase scene are CGI. It's quite obvious that the plates have been shot on a Helicopter or Drone and the train, VW's, Jeep and JCB have been imposed in.

    Also.

    Spoiler Alert:

    Malorey is a double agent.
  • Silvas CGI face gives the tidal wave from DAD a run for its money. Personally in Bond less is more, i prefer computer effects to be pretty much unnoticable.
  • THEBond007THEBond007 Banned
    Posts: 91
    That part really didn't bother me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Shauno wrote:
    Malorey is a double agent.

    Obviously he's not. Look, don't spread such silly theories please, as we all understand from SF that Mallory is perfectly clean. There's nothing iffy about him being the next M.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    A double agent?
    Well, that's a.......curious theory.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Shauno wrote:
    Bit late in the day like, but in the introduction scene there are quite a few little CGI scene's slotted in, which people haven't mentioned. It's mostly shots, but nevertheless.

    Most of the external wide angle train shots in the chase scene are CGI. It's quite obvious that the plates have been shot on a Helicopter or Drone and the train, VW's, Jeep and JCB have been imposed in.

    Also.

    Spoiler Alert:

    Malorey is a double agent.

    Sigh.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Someone I can't quote because of unusual characters in the name I guess, wrote :
    'A double agent?
    Well, that's a.......curious theory.'

    Actually, what happened after Bond heard the news on the TV is only him dreaming of what would happen if he came back to MI6 (notice he's teleporting himself to London with no one detecting he's still alive).

    If you want to speak about film theory, notice the color "organic green" totally disappears in any scene once we're within his dream (while it's everywhere in the train scene). Even the nature around Skyfall does not mean "life". Skyfall is actually "Bond meets Tartovski's Stalker".

    Hey, it's easy to read too much :)
  • StrelikStrelik Spectre Island
    edited February 2013 Posts: 108
    While viewing Skyfall in the theater, only three scenes triggered my "odd CGI" radar: 1. The komodo dragons, 2. the helicopters, and 3. Silva's facial transformation. Otherwise, everything else seemed acceptable.
  • Posts: 1,548
    CGI was fine to me throughout Skyfall. Makes the cgi in diet another day look like a bad 80's arcade game.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2013 Posts: 17,800
    Strelik wrote:
    While viewing Skyfall in the theater, only three scenes triggered my "odd CGI" radar: 1. The komodo dragons, 2. the helicopters, and 3. Silva's facial transformation. Otherwise, everything else seemed acceptable.
    While basically I agree, there were also other shots that just irked me generally. I'm an intensely visual person, and CGI tends to trigger my optical spidey sense.
  • Skyfall is actually "Bond meets Tartovski's Stalker".

    Hey, it's easy to read too much :)
    That's got to be one of the most offensive things I've ever read, about on par with calling MESSAGE FROM SPACE or THE GREEN SLIME Japan's equivalent to 2001.

    STALKER is a goddamn masterpiece, whereas SKYFALL is just like CR, a smokescreen that has suckered half the planet into suspending all critical faculties.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    trevanian wrote:
    SKYFALL is just like CR, a smokescreen that has suckered half the planet into suspending all critical faculties.
    So... you didn't love it? b-(

    While I don't think SF is God's gift to Bond fans, there IS a danger of swinging too far in the other direction, which judging by the words you choose to describe it here, I feel that you have. Just because people are falling all over themselves to praise it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it as the good movie that it is.
    I remember when GE came out, and people around me were saying IT was God's gift... I enjoyed it IMMENSELY, but I still saw some of the flaws that made it less than perfect.

    In MY opinion, only two Bond movies come near to being worthy of such ridiculous accolades, and both of them star that Welsh actor, what's-his-name.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 2,015
    Watching SF now with the possibility to freeze the images, I think I can conclude the long shots of Silva's island are definitely CG. So, ironically with respect to yesterday, the boat scene is Life of Pi material :)

    I don't know if I really need to take snapshots but look at it and look at some real life Hashima island photos one can very easily find on the Internet, it looks similar but there's no way one can make match many, many elements between the movie and reality.

    So it is more a Hashma-inspired creation rather than a real shot "cleaned" with CG, IMO. They've added some elements to make it less "boring", a house on rock outside the wall, an entrance for the boat, a large dock, etc (watch out, I'm not used at all to this vocabulary, so I cannot use the most accurate English words...). You can recognize some buildings, etc, but not the overall layout at alll.

    On the other hand, when they arrive on the island, the shot is green screen with a CG back-up that is this time heavily based on a real life block there, albeit with more damages and less green life.

    abandoned-city-5.jpg





  • dupe
    chrisisall wrote:
    trevanian wrote:
    SKYFALL is just like CR, a smokescreen that has suckered half the planet into suspending all critical faculties.
    So... you didn't love it? b-(

    While I don't think SF is God's gift to Bond fans, there IS a danger of swinging too far in the other direction, which judging by the words you choose to describe it here, I feel that you have. Just because people are falling all over themselves to praise it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it as the good movie that it is.
    I remember when GE came out, and people around me were saying IT was God's gift... I enjoyed it IMMENSELY, but I still saw some of the flaws that made it less than perfect.

    In MY opinion, only two Bond movies come near to being worthy of such ridiculous accolades, and both of them star that Welsh actor, what's-his-name.

    Well we're agreed on that last part, to be sure (if you slip FRWL in there, that is.)

    I have had terrible (as in angry pissed off) first reactions to Bond movies in the past ... MR, VIEW, TND (which was the first I didn't catch in a cinema, and wound up fastforwarding through), DAD and CR (both of those were skip-in-theater as well) ... but my response on this one was even more negative, because I found at points that it was so wrongheaded that I wasn't even getting upset over it, it was causing that level of detachment. There is plenty that did infuriate, but the fact that I didn't write a 10 page treatise on the ills of SF says it must have really torn it all asunder for me.

    I mean, after CR, I was furious about everything (before seeing it I was just angry about the Craig casting, but after seeing it, I found that casting to only be symptomatic of how many things were wrong in and about it.) I thought at least some of the CR worship was just fallout from BOURNE love (which I find nearly as offputting, as Clive Owen was maybe the only decent thing in it.) But the SF appeal is utterly inexplicable to me, given that the movie is, on top of whatever zillion faults I might see in it, also a grind instead of a romp, so any cushion relating to Bond style isn't there either.

    I remember as a teen on my first job at a bookstore in 1978 or 1979 talking to some guy in his 40s who had about given up on the Bond on the basis of SPY (a pic I found pretty ridiculous myself, where the work of Meddings and Adam and the 2nd unit are pretty much the only redeeming aspects, even now.) I remember telling him that 'we'd get ours' when WARHEAD popped up and trashed the EonMoore rubbish, a thought that seemed mildly optimistic then, crazily optimistic in retrospect. I don't have those kinds of illusions anymore. TREK is being made by folks raised on STAR WARS, which is akin to having GODFATHER films made by Alan Parker in BUGSY MALONE mode (if you don't recognize the reference, it is painful, and maybe a little funny too.) I don't understand the point of using Fleming stuff and putting it so out of context that it makes no sense, I don't appreciate the reinvention of Bond in the slightest. So I'm not really acting out on this SKYFALL issue, just sick & tired of it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    trevanian wrote:

    Well we're agreed on that last part, to be sure (if you slip FRWL in there, that is.)
    Well, I could actually slip in both that & DN...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2013 Posts: 17,800
    Here's a thing to consider: take a really striking CGI FX shot from a movie, say the first ship we see landing on Pandora in Avatar, then compare that to the drop ship from Aliens. The thinking part of your brain might be very impressed with the former, but it's just not as exciting to see as the latter. Even very good CGI just 'seems' wrong if pushed in your face for long. Your brain can tell the difference, even when you aren't consciously aware of it.

    Look at the helicopter going through the town in TND, now they could have just CGI'd everything in that scene, instead they went practical for all but the blades, and the result was most convincing because we weren't looking primarily at the blades, but at the damage they were causing. CGI can assist in a magic trick, it just shouldn't BE the magic trick.

    Silva's denture removal was like reliving Jinx's ocean dive all over again. ~X(
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The CGI, while not great, was at least used minimally. It didn't stick around too long like in films with worse CGI like DIE ANOTHER DAY or X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE. Besides, whatever the quality the CGI of SF, is made up for the use of good practical effects, such as both the subway and helicopter crash.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    CGI was probably the biggest problem for SF for me. Everyone seems to like the komodo dragon fight, but I think its the worst scene in the film. The CGI komodos were horrific. But it is nothing on the level on DAD.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2013 Posts: 18,281
    CGI seems to be a real problem in all modern action/adventure films, not just the Bond films where DAD, QoS and SF are the chief offenders. It's an endemic thing. I long for the old days of Bond films where everything was done for real or with models so good you wouldn't realise they were such. But sadly that era of Bond films has passed into darkness now.
  • I was very impressed with the CGI around Skyfall Lodge (a set in Surrey). The mountains in the distance and the lake in the foreground. Seamlessly matched up with the approach shots filmed at Glen Coe.

    I have to say, the entire final sequence of the film was immaculate on the technical front, superbly lit especially.
    I Was amazed at that shot, after finding out it was filmed in a park in Surrey, not sure which one though.

    To come back to others about that island - the shot as they approach it on the boat was NOT the real island in Japan, it was a CGI version "based on" that island.

    The boat and the shots surrounding it were clearly all shot in a green screen studio, very effectively.

    I wish I could see a Making Of with Silva's jaw. That was very creepy.

    I've been watching videos online about Green Screen, and you just don't know what is real, and what isn't, but that's the whole point.

    For instance, the scene where they get the Aston out of the old garage, could have been easily filmed in a made up garage, greenscreen/cgi surrounding it, and a Pinewood fake road as they drove away. It wasn't. It was all real.

    I did read that the shot from behind M's body when they see the MI6 building blown up was her facing a green screen, but it wasn't. They shut that bridge to film it. The CGI was clearly just the explosion which is someone here has said, was flawless. The only reason you know full well it was CGI (or models) was because they couldn't it for real.
  • Posts: 1,405
    Silva showing his denture was obvious.
    However, the dragon and helicopter scenes were well done. I really don't see what's the problem with those two.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    The CGI was noticeable in SF and perhaps not as good as we should be expecting from a Bond movie. The choppers of Silva's island were pretty awful and having Craig's face imposed on the stunt bike rider made a 'real' stunt sequence look fake.

    But overall, it's not the quality of the CGI that lets SF down - it's the story itself, lacklustre action and some dodgy nostalgic self-indulgence by Mendes.

    I sense there were significant budget contstraints at play as well. I appreciate that Mendes wanted to do the tube train crash for 'real' but I'm not sure that scene even adds very much to the movie. Presumably it's part of Silva's plan to sow terror and chaos as a distraction, but you never really get the sense of London being a city under siege. May be that was considered too sensitive an approach to take.
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