Post-Fleming Bond novels that should get movie treatment

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Kronsteen wrote: »
    Although the Bond literature fans are few and far between it would be an extremely nice gesture from EON to acknowledge us and show us that they really do care about the original source, whether it's unused Fleming material or a continuation story.

    Continuation novel is not "original source".
  • KronsteenKronsteen Stockholm
    Posts: 783

    Continuation novel is not "original source".

    That is very true, bad writing of me. What I meant was that I'd like EON to show more apreciation for the literary character from Fleming, which I feel they don't do anymore at all. For me the continuation novels is an extended arm of the Fleming universe, while the movie series is it's own thing. So for me, by using continuation material they would show interest in both the Fleming creation and the literary universe as a whole.


  • edited October 2016 Posts: 2,598
    I've warmed up to Carte Blanche. I felt it took a long time to get going and picked up when Bond meets Felicity Willing, who incidentally is one of the best Bond Girl/Woman names to enter the canon for a while.

    I like the Serbia angle but would drop a few sub plots and make the villains much more interesting and less weird frankly.

    The book introduces a new cocktail, which is fun and the scene where Bond shoots a man as a test of loyalty to Hydt, has a lot of tension.

    Devil May Care has a great title and I do the like the twist of the twins but overall it's not Fleming enough.

    I enjoyed Carte Blanch's story on the whole. What I didn't like was how Deaver almost completely changed the character of Bond and turned him into someone I could barely recognise, who, along with other things, shamelessly took s**t from women.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Kronsteen wrote: »
    The average moviegoer couldn't care less if the next Bond movie is written as a new story or based on a continuation novel. That's how the producers think, I would guess.

    But if the average moviegoer doesn't care, why not apeal to the Bond fans who actually would care. Of course the Bond film fans wouldn't care either (would they even notice if it said "based on a story by John Gardner" in the titles?). Although the Bond literature fans are few and far between it would be an extremely nice gesture from EON to acknowledge us and show us that they really do care about the original source, whether it's unused Fleming material or a continuation story.

    They have opened the door ajar with the snippets from Colonel Sun in Spectre, which made me totally over-thrilled when I first heard it! I was purely extatic and for the first time since Casino Royale I got a geek-out moment in the cinema :) I just hope they don't close the door again, but continue into that glorious hall of Bond literature that is available and untouched.

    I think there's two potential issues with it, the first one the main reason why it did not happen and probably won't: 1)Royalties, 2)the controversial nature of any continuation regarding canonical work.

    They did use elements of the continuations before SP but never explicitly, which I think is as far as they'll go.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Kronsteen wrote: »
    The average moviegoer couldn't care less if the next Bond movie is written as a new story or based on a continuation novel. That's how the producers think, I would guess.

    I agree, although I would add that the films seem to be better when they go back to Fleming (and Babs is on record that her father essentially told her "when in doubt, go back to Fleming").

    I think that most serious fans would agree that the best sections of FYEO, OP, TLD, and LTK are lifted directly from Fleming. Alone in this era, AVTAK suffers because of a lack of Fleming. Among the later films, CR is in a class of its own thanks to the Fleming material it incorporates.

    There was an opportunity to use some material from the QoS short story in QoS--perhaps in Green's piano teacher speech? Or with Mathis on the plane? Or with Leiter in Bolivia?--and frankly, I wish they had.

    SF and SP are more Bond-movie pastiche than Fleming, much like GE and TND before them. And TWINE and DAD? More like a fever dream.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    A scene on the plane with reference to the short story was cut from the script.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Because the film was so long, they had to cut it. Sometimes, they really don't make the best choices... And that's putting it lightly.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2016 Posts: 18,264
    A scene on the plane with reference to the short story was cut from the script.

    I think I advocated that myself (on another Bond forum) after seeing QoS in the cinema in November 2008. Mathis' speech would have been the perfect place to have slotted that in. Yet another missed opportunity to neatly incorporate some Fleming into the films but I think the script was mostly written before the QoS title was appended to it almost as an afterthought.

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Because the film was so long, they had to cut it. Sometimes, they really don't make the best choices... And that's putting it lightly.

    Hopefully this is sarcasm?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Walecs wrote: »
    Because the film was so long, they had to cut it. Sometimes, they really don't make the best choices... And that's putting it lightly.

    Hopefully this is sarcasm?

    I assumed so too.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    @Walecs, do you know anyone who would qualify 1 hour and 44 minutes of a feature length as a "so long film"? ;)
  • Posts: 15,106
    echo wrote: »
    Kronsteen wrote: »
    The average moviegoer couldn't care less if the next Bond movie is written as a new story or based on a continuation novel. That's how the producers think, I would guess.

    I agree, although I would add that the films seem to be better when they go back to Fleming (and Babs is on record that her father essentially told her "when in doubt, go back to Fleming").

    I think that most serious fans would agree that the best sections of FYEO, OP, TLD, and LTK are lifted directly from Fleming. Alone in this era, AVTAK suffers because of a lack of Fleming. Among the later films, CR is in a class of its own thanks to the Fleming material it incorporates.

    There was an opportunity to use some material from the QoS short story in QoS--perhaps in Green's piano teacher speech? Or with Mathis on the plane? Or with Leiter in Bolivia?--and frankly, I wish they had.

    SF and SP are more Bond-movie pastiche than Fleming, much like GE and TND before them. And TWINE and DAD? More like a fever dream.

    There's actually a lot of Fleming material in AVTAK, GE, SF and SP. Even DAD which I hate and hate to admit.
  • Posts: 7,407
    There is a moment in SP which one critic picked out, where Bond and Madeleine have just left the train and are waiting,....and the Rolls just comes out of nowhere! It has a Fleming vibe to it! But I agree, going back to Ian Fleming is always a good idea! They may have used up the novels, but there is still a bit more to mine from them!
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    @Walecs, do you know anyone who would qualify 1 hour and 44 minutes of a feature length as a "so long film"? ;)

    Ah, I'm sorry, in a world where people believed Bond 24 would be called "Come and Dive"(and were subsequently astonished when they found out it wouldn't) and claime the code name theory is true I can't help but wonder whether certain statements are true or are not. ;)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2016 Posts: 6,277
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Those films, particularly DAD, just pick unspecified motifs from Fleming's work.

    I think @echo is referring to, and if he is I agree, films that take actually scenes, dialogue and storylines from the original novels and short stories. Not simply grand schemes, or broad character outlines.

    Exactly. Thank you.

    Surely I'm not the only person who thinks that the "Trigger" scene in TLD was the best Bond film scene since the ending of OHMSS. The more Fleming, the better.

    I realize that Eon keeps being "inspired" by bits and pieces of the MR novel (GE and DAD in particular, but also SF and arguably QoS), but when they finally get around to a faithful MR adaptation, it will likely be better than those efforts.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Walecs wrote: »
    @Walecs, do you know anyone who would qualify 1 hour and 44 minutes of a feature length as a "so long film"? ;)

    Ah, I'm sorry, in a world where people believed Bond 24 would be called "Come and Dive"(and were subsequently astonished when they found out it wouldn't) and claime the code name theory is true I can't help but wonder whether certain statements are true or are not. ;)
    I always thought Wave-Link was better. :))
  • Posts: 15,106
    echo wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Those films, particularly DAD, just pick unspecified motifs from Fleming's work.

    I think @echo is referring to, and if he is I agree, films that take actually scenes, dialogue and storylines from the original novels and short stories. Not simply grand schemes, or broad character outlines.

    Exactly. Thank you.

    Surely I'm not the only person who thinks that the "Trigger" scene in TLD was the best Bond film scene since the ending of OHMSS. The more Fleming, the better.

    I realize that Eon keeps being "inspired" by bits and pieces of the MR novel (GE and DAD in particular, but also SF and arguably QoS), but when they finally get around to a faithful MR adaptation, it will likely be better than those efforts.

    The thing is MR might be the most "adapted" Bond novel. Or plundered if you prefer. I'd love a faithful adaptation... But wonder what has not been used.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    What scene of MR inspired QOS?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Walecs wrote: »
    What scene of MR inspired QOS?
    The freefall. Bond having no parachute and having to use someone else's to land safely on the ground.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I completely forgot that scene being in the novel (and I still can't remember). I must re-read it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2016 Posts: 6,277
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I realize that Eon keeps being "inspired" by bits and pieces of the MR novel (GE and DAD in particular, but also SF and arguably QoS), but when they finally get around to a faithful MR adaptation, it will likely be better than those efforts.

    The thing is MR might be the most "adapted" Bond novel. Or plundered if you prefer. I'd love a faithful adaptation... But wonder what has not been used.

    Well, the bridge game, Gala Brand, Krebs, and the blowtorch bit, to name a few. I also think that Drax could be rebooted and played a lot more faithfully to the novel.

    I realize that P&W have gone back and used elements "inspired by" MR several times--the sword fight, the falling cliff, and the Frost character in DAD; the gun range scene and London settings in SF; even the bald henchmen in TWINE (and GE owes a lot to MR too)--but I still think there is enough left in the narrative momentum of the novel particularly on the emotional/national pride side to warrant a closer adaptation.
    Walecs wrote: »
    What scene of MR inspired QOS?
    The freefall. Bond having no parachute and having to use someone else's to land safely on the ground.

    Also, arguably, the fiery climax and the chaste relationship with Camille. The coda is 007 in New York (and part The Bourne Supremacy, let's be honest).

    I have mixed feelings about P&W and often I think their fanboy "Fleming checklist" approach misses the mark, as opposed to the actual Flemingesque emotional throughline that Haggis provided in CR (and probably QoS--I'd bet that Haggis is responsible for all the Mathis scenes there).
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Walecs wrote: »
    I completely forgot that scene being in the novel (and I still can't remember). I must re-read it.

    There's a good reason for that - it's not in the MR novel but only the film version.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Walecs wrote: »
    I completely forgot that scene being in the novel (and I still can't remember). I must re-read it.
    I didn't refer to the novel.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 623
    A scene on the plane with reference to the short story was cut from the script.
    .[/quote]

    Mathis' comment about the bad guys and good guys being interchangeable is in the CR novel, but it's Bond who says it. I've got the book here and he says "When one's young, it seems very easy to distinguish between right and wrong, but as one gets older it seems more difficult" and goes on to say, that later in life, "the villains and heroes get mixed up". I can't remember Mathis' exact quote, (it was at the Villa, wasn't it?), but it sounds like an almost exact lift.
  • I found it...


    "Well, oddly, right now, you're the only person
    I think I can trust".

    "That is odd. But I guess when one's young, it seems very easy
    to distinguish between right and wrong. But as one gets older,
    it becomes more difficult. The villains and the heroes
    get all mixed up".


    It's exact. Looks like they were mining the CR book for this bit, it'd be interesting to see what else they considered using on the plane scene.
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