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James Bond as a serial killer?

DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
edited December 2012 in Literary 007 Posts: 18,281
Your thoughts on the subject, please.

James Bond as a serial killer?

Discuss, with special referencve to TMWTGG film and NSF Gardner serial killer novel.

Is James Bond a bit of a sicko?

Is he a mass killer?

Discuss.

Here are my views on the subject:

I think in some ways James Bond is a serial killer - an interersting piece in the Independent magazine accused him of such way back in October 2008 and the germ of this idea/topic has rather stuck with me ever since. It has the potential to make a very interesting write-up. There is a thuggish element to James Bond the hitman - see TMWTGG novel, FYEO ss, TLD ss. Then there's the cold-blooded two slayings to earn the Double-O licence to kill in the line of duty status from which Bond becomes the secret agent we all know and love. There is also the element of his not killing in cold blood mentioned in FRWL and TSWLM novels - so its a rather confused picture. Add to this the opening chapter of GF and the death of the Mexican capungo (basically, Bond never liked killing, but he did it professionally and it was a rather inevitable part of his job as a govt. paid trouleshooter) and you've got the guts of a rather fascinating topic. James Bond meets the serial killer novel genre/bandwagon in John Gardner's Never Send Flowers is perhaps not so off-beat as many assumed. In FYEO and TLD ss we see Bond refer to planned assassinations, ratgher interestingly as murder - considering that's how he became a double-O agent - through state-sponsored murder. There's a lot going on beneath the surface with Bond's character in this area and perhaps the newly appointed William Boyd will explore this "unchartered territory" in his new James Bond novel in 2013.

Food for thought there...
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Comments

  • Dalton12Dalton12
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,107
    Similar ,no the same thread is at ! : http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/39975/james-bond-the-serial-killer/ just look at it!! with exact same words are you copying it here ?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    really 007 a serial killer, You are not a James Bond fan by any chance??
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dalton12 wrote:
    Similar ,no the same thread is at ! : http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/39975/james-bond-the-serial-killer/ just look at it!! with exact same words are you copying it here ?

    Yes, I am SILHOUETTE MAN. Though on Twitter, I'm Dragonpol, hence my change of name here. I'm not a plagiarist, thank you very much!
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    In no way is Bond a serial killer, that's a ridiculous theory.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,588
    TBH, I haven't read NSF, but a simple wiki search for the term 'serial killer' will prove Bond is not one.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Yes, but there are dark undercurrents at work in the man - does he or does he not get kicks from killing. I don't mean a serial as in John Christie or Dr Harold Shipman. I mean, does Bond have an inner psychosis - does he enjoy killing or does his work siocxken him increasingly the longer and harder that he goes at it?

    Please don't be so dismissive of new ideas - let them have time to breathe.

    :)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    There are criminal elements to Bond - just see what the early film/book reviewers wrote about the character back in the 1950s and 1960s. And yes, of course I'm a James Bond fan - see my The Bondologist Blog here, if you don't believe me - http://www.thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/
  • Dalton12Dalton12
    Posts: 1,107
    Hmm good blog man . Some interesting articles you got there.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Dalton12 wrote:
    Hmm good blog man . Some interesting articles you got there.

    Thanks, there will be many more to come in time!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    There is simply no connection to Bond and the serial killer archetype. Yes, he kills, but that makes him more of an anti hero than anything, especially not a serial killer. Bond does take lives, but only because he has to. What he must do he signed up for, it isn't because he enjoys it. It is his job description, and I am sure Fleming's Bond would keep a man alive if he had the chance. If Bond were a serial killer he would have sudden insatiable urges to kill, and they would need to be met. He isn't like that in any of his incarnations, and saying he is a serial killer is just a faulty argument only because there isn't any evidence to support the claim.
  • Dalton12Dalton12
    Posts: 1,107
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    There is simply no connection to Bond and the serial killer archetype. Yes, he kills, but that makes him more of an anti hero than anything, especially not a serial killer. Bond does take lives, but only because he has to. What he must do he signed up for, it isn't because he enjoys it. It is his job description, and I am sure Fleming's Bond would keep a man alive if he had the chance. If Bond were a serial killer he would have sudden insatiable urges to kill, and they would need to be met. He isn't like that in any of his incarnations, and saying he is a serial killer is just a faulty argument only because there isn't any evidence to support the claim.

    I agree with 0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 .
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2020 Posts: 18,281
    May I say that I was being Devil's Advocate here - I know that it's a rather controversial statement to make - but others have made this argument besides me - see the Independent supplement that referred to James Bond as a sicko, quoted above in the first post in this thread. There is a dichotomy about James Bond's love-hate relationship with the killing aspect of his dark and deadly profession. Does he kill in cold blood or not - he can't really sit on the fence, yet somehow he does in Fleming, occupying two divergent positions - this argument is made by Lane and Simpson in The Bond Files (2000, 2nd ed.).
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Dragonpol wrote:
    May I say that I was being Devil's Advocate here - I know that it's a rather copntroversial statement to make - but others have made this argument besides me - see the Independent supplement that referred to James Bond as a sicko, quoted above in the first post in this thread. There is a dichotomy about James Bond's love-hate relationship with the kiulling aspect of his dark and deadly profession. Does he kill in cold blood or not - he can't really sit on the fence, yet somehow he does in Fleming, occupying two divergent positions - this argument is made by Lane and Simpson in The Bond Files (2000, 2nd ed.).
    He does not. In YOLT he has a hard time getting himself to go after Shatterhand becouse of politics, even though he knows the man is evil. It's only after he finds out it's Blofeld he gets focussed, you can't call going after the murderer of your wife 'cold blood'. He never likes killing and doesn't even when it would finish the mission easy (TMWGG). In the short story FYEO he justifies the killing eleborately to get himself to do it.
    He likes the dangerous life, and is happy when judgement is done, but the killing itself?no.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    Short answer: no. Bond does not enjoy killing and when he does kill it is under governmental authority. Red Grant was a serial killer and was just as different to Bond as one could be: disinterested in anything else than killing, sexually inactive, etc.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Yes, but he had to kill in cold blood TWICE to become OO7. That's my point - there is a greyer area here than many Bond fans wish to consider.

    I do love the TMWTGG Bond-Scaramanga scene, though - pretty much debunks my serial killer theory, though. Such is life...
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    James Bond a veterinarian?
    James Bond a gardener?
    James Bond a sous chef on his spare Sundays?

    In all seriousness, my answer is he's not a sicko sociopath of a serial killer. He doesn't have to kill based on some inner compulsion. It's required by his job occasionally but he doesn't exactly terrorize the alleys of London.
  • htall90htall90
    Posts: 277
    There probably is some weird bond spinoff on the web where he is a serial killer maybe like dexter so he knows how to cover it up lol.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Yes, but he had to kill in cold blood TWICE to become OO7. That's my point - there is a greyer area here than many Bond fans wish to consider.

    I do love the TMWTGG Bond-Scaramanga scene, though - pretty much debunks my serial killer theory, though. Such is life...

    Killing in cold blood does not make you a serial killer. If killing is the motive for the kill, then yes, he could be qualified as such.
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    Ridiculous notion. Barely worth my comment. He kills because killing is part of his job for the greater good.

    Are all soldiers that kill as part of their job to protect the free world serial killers also? Silly and pointless discussion.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    myworldisenough wrote:
    Ridiculous notion. Barely worth my comment. He kills because killing is part of his job for the greater good.

    Are all soldiers that kill as part of their job to protect the free world serial killers also? Silly and pointless discussion.

    Well, the replies suggest otherwise, and as I've stated above, it's an idea not of my own, but of others.

    But then there seem to be so many closed-minded people on sites such as this one that I really don't know why I even bother sometimes...

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Had to smile at one of the authors questions - 'Is Bond a sicko' heh

    Only instance that came to mind was Moore in 1985, as a 57 Year Old Bond giving a worldwide audience a performance of unparalleled nonsense and embarrassment to the franchise..

    No, he's not a 'serial killer' so to speak

    Bundy, Ridgway, John Wayne Gacy - James Bond 007 ?

    Not even a mass killer in the true sense. Just as other people have elaborated on, just a man doing a job killing under orders of his Goverment, and as said 'those he kills are indeed killers themselves'

    Silly thread by the author with all due respect

    We're going to bed. Goodnight

    I-)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2020 Posts: 18,281
    As I've stated above before numerous times, this is not my thesis - see the Independent 2008 James Bond article I refer to. I will post details later.

  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Is there not a line in Goldfinger which states "Bond had to kill but did not enjoy killing".
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    identigraph wrote:
    Is there not a line in Goldfinger which states "Bond had to kill but did not enjoy killing".

    Yes, it's in the first chapter of Goldfinger - after jhe has killed the Mexican capungo - assassin.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Bond is not a serial killer. He's a government agent. In a broader sense, he's a paid assassin. A serial killer, however, is a psychopath, a nutjob who finds questionable motives for killing (usually) innocent people - though guilty of some crime in his twisted reasoning.

    Bond firstly doesn't kill innocent folks and neither does he find motives for killing which exist only in his own mind. Even his revenge plot, executed in LTK, though not condoned or instructed by his superiors, doesn't make him a serial killer. He targets those who partake in a criminal's schemes and were in some cases directly involved in killing Della and destroying Leiter's body.

    Secondly, Bond's killing usually serves a greater good, like thwarting plans for WWIII or neutralising a threat to public safety. Serial killers serve a good which only qualifies as such in their own sick logic.

    I disagree with the suggestion of James Bond being a serial killer. There's quite simply nothing to hold up that idea. Despite some darker moments in his career, he always takes out the trash, without collateral victims among innocent bystanders. Let's give him a break. ;-)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2020 Posts: 18,281
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Bond is not a serial killer. He's a government agent. In a broader sense, he's a paid assassin. A serial killer, however, is a psychopath, a nutjob who finds questionable motives for killing (usually) innocent people - though guilty of some crime in his twisted reasoning.

    Bond firstly doesn't kill innocent folks and neither does he find motives for killing which exist only in his own mind. Even his revenge plot, executed in LTK, though not condoned or instructed by his superiors, doesn't make him a serial killer. He targets those who partake in a criminal's schemes and were in some cases directly involved in killing Della and destroying Leiter's body.

    Secondly, Bond's killing usually serves a greater good, like thwarting plans for WWIII or neutralising a threat to public safety. Serial killers serve a good which only qualifies as such in their own sick logic.

    I disagree with the suggestion of James Bond being a serial killer. There's quite simply nothing to hold up that idea. Despite some darker moments in his career, he always takes out the trash, without collateral victims among innocent bystanders. Let's give him a break. ;-)

    Agreed. Again, I was experimenting (being Devil's Advocate, if you like) with James Bond fan hardcore opinion, as I thought this was an interesting polemic on the whole James Bond character construct - see Casino Royale novel and TMWTGG film version (also TLD film) for more on Bond and villain similarities/differences!



  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Bond is not a serial killer. He's a government agent. In a broader sense, he's a paid assassin. A serial killer, however, is a psychopath, a nutjob who finds questionable motives for killing (usually) innocent people - though guilty of some crime in his twisted reasoning.

    Bond firstly doesn't kill innocent folks and neither does he find motives for killing which exist only in his own mind. Even his revenge plot, executed in LTK, though not condoned or instructed by his superiors, doesn't make him a serial killer. He targets those who partake in a criminal's schemes and were in some cases directly involved in killing Della and destroying Leiter's body.

    Secondly, Bond's killing usually serves a greater good, like thwarting plans for WWIII or neutralising a threat to public safety. Serial killers serve a good which only qualifies as such in their own sick logic.

    I disagree with the suggestion of James Bond being a serial killer. There's quite simply nothing to hold up that idea. Despite some darker moments in his career, he always takes out the trash, without collateral victims among innocent bystanders. Let's give him a break. ;-)

    That pretty much sums it up to me.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    There are many revisionist/postmodernist readings of the James Bond character construct over the decades and this is but one of them out there. Just making you all aware. Sorry if, in the process, I upset the MI6 HQ apple cart.

    --Dragonpol
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Dragonpol wrote:
    There are many revisionist/postmodernist readings of the James Bond character construct over the decades and this is but one of them out there. Just making you all aware. Sorry if, in the process, I upset the MI6 HQ apple cart.

    --Dragonpol
    And they're all wrong, for postmodernists are by definition wrong. Those are people who think too much and live too little. I've been accused of beeing one by my professor at Uni and it almost ended in my first kill ;)

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Are they the same people who support the "James Bond is just a code name" theory? ;-)
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