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but the forum actually made me really defend Pierce's Bond and i suppose thats a good thing
A little late but here's my take on it:
I was a huge Connery fan when I was a kid and I couldn't stand Moore as Bond. Even when I was 13 I found his movies too juvenile and silly, and worst of all this punning clown who was PRETENDING to be Bond was not the kind of guy that I wanted to be when I grew up. So I could never make it more than 20 minutes into a Moore film on TV until I had to change the channel.
Now, a friend my age who saw the Moore films in the theatre (starting with TSWLM I think) said that at the time that FYEO came out there was a huge OH THANK GOD factor that they had "fixed" the errors of MR. Of course, seeing the films out of order or one after the other on DVD makes this reaction not happen. As the famous saying goes, you had to be there...
In the spirit of this thread I have more appreciation for Moore now. I still rate him my least favourite Bond but I can understand why people like him, especially after many eloquent defenses made by members here. But I still won't go out of my way to watch MR or AVTAK (the two Bond films I've never seen in their entirety). I made the mistake of renting LALD once and that was bad enough! ;-)
And GF too, right? =))
The forum also cemented my dislike for Brosnan, a truely smug wimpy Bond.
I re-watched a bit of AVTAK yesterday - not that great. I used to really like it as a kid but I've realised how dodgy some of the scenes are with Moore and younger women. Moore gives an ok performance but he acts more like the cool but slightly over-the-hill uncle than James Bond. He's certainly not a "blunt instrument" put it that way (the "fight" in Zorin's warehouse is embarrassing and IMO is a good contender for worst fight scene in the series - at least Brosnan and Toby Stephens were still reasonably atheletic during the final DAD fight on the aeroplane).
I appreciate not everyone likes FYEO but Moore does feel a bit more like Bond in it - at least compared to some of his other outings. He's more "down to business" but still has some of that Rog charm.
This forum has helped me see that not everybody hates QOS: we just don't like for there to be too much action in a Bond movie, especially after a film that is supposed to provide progress in the main character's quest while lost in this world.
This forum has also made me realize how generic most of PB's movies were and the importance of keeping DC's great 007 films (they're not just Bond movies) original and introducing new elements of conflict and deeper character development and realism.
We already have 20 films of which maybe 19 all followed the same predictable format just in different locations and new faces without explanation going downward like the cars dropping out of a plane in DAD.
I sort of agree with you. I re-watched a bit of TWINE as well the other day (I really need to get out more). Its ok and there are a few nice scenes (the boat chase, the Scottish castle, the construction site with Bond and Electra, the casino, M confronting Renard in the cell, Bond killing Electra and Davidov - probably two of Brosnan's finest moments in the part) but it feels somewhat...average to be honest. The acting (and Pierce Brosnan) fluctuate from good to downright terrible (although Denise Richards does provide good comic relief) and, as a whole, the film doesn't have much...umph about it.
I don't take a lot of pleasure in saying this but, while I still enjoy Brosnan, his films haven't aged very well. Casino Royale (and Skyfall) really feel like a shot in the arm in comparison - not just in terms of acting but in overall production. You get the sense the producers are trying harder a bit harder to do something different than they did with PB
I don't understand why that should affect the rankings of the film itself though. On its own its still a fun "caper".
CR did have GE similarities which were pivotal for establishing audience familiarity with "this new guy" playing Bond (i.e. the closeups on the actors' eyes) when the character was waking up after being knocked down by a crash or in a coma. These styles are good at really forcing the audience to accept the new actor whether or not they try to own the role on the first film (fortunately DC accomplished this, and pushed it further successively).
Something I LOVE about both Brosnan and Craig.
TWINE fell a lot in my rankings upon rewatching it last year. I remember that when I saw TND and TWINE when they first came out they were the first Bond films where, walking out of the theatre, I felt a sense of disappointment and "I waited two years for *that*?". At least with TWINE I thought "Well, they TRIED to make a better film" which made me rank it above TND. But rewatching it I found it drab and dreary, and the potentially good elements are either squandered (like Renard being impervious to pain), lame (the action scenes), or the people involved didn't have the talent to bring it off (I swear I actually cringed and felt embarrassed in the theatre watching Brosnan's performance - the scene where he confronts Elektra was the turning point in my opinion of him).
That said, there are some good elements, and the character of Elektra and Marceau's performance were quite good. Shame it couldn't have been done at a different point in the franchise's history, although Brosnan's Bond is the only one I could see being involved in this story.
Whoa! That's a massive leap. Glad you've found a new appreciation for it.