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M and David Arnold

dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
edited January 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 1,282
Why did some of the friends on tbis board want Judi Dench and David Arnold out of the series? Great talent from Judi Dench and such a maturated David Arnold who brought us the Vesper theme and The Dead Don't Care About Vengeance.

Comments

  • LicenceRevokedLicenceRevoked
    Posts: 204
    I've never had an issue with David Arnold personally, I think he has done a fantastic job. I believe many people's criticism was regarding Die Another Day and TWINE where he used a few too many electronic elements however this is scaled right back in CR and QoS so he did redeem himself. In the end I think they didn't want him to go but part of Sam Mendes conditions of doing Skyfall was that he brought on Thomas Newman. It is very possible that is Bond 24 is not directed by Mendes again and another composer is chosen, Arnold could resume but again it depends on what EON decide ultimately...
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    I'm sure the SF absence was hunbling for Arnold but if he's given a second chance he'll do it well. SF used CR score, is that true? SF did not have a memorable score. Thomas Newman missed out on scoring a nice song for M's death scene. This is what David Arnold would have mastered.
  • LicenceRevokedLicenceRevoked
    edited January 2013 Posts: 204
    I think David Arnold really followed the John Barry formula to a T. I've listened to countless Bond soundtracks and even composed a few of my own, so I have paid a great deal of attention to this and the winning formula for this appears to be as follows:

    1. Title Theme / Motif - Has to be strong and memorable. Goldeneye is a great title song but hard to see how to quote it in a score, same with Tomorrow Never Dies or Another Way To Die...
    The World Is Not Enough - TWINE, We Have All The Time In The World - OHMSS - From Russia With Love - FRWL

    2. End or Alternate Theme / Motif
    Where Did Everybody Go? - TLD, Surrender - TND

    3. Love Interest Motif - played to reference the main Bond girl of the film, not the auxilliary one, i.e for Vesper not Solange, for Camille, not Fields.
    Vesper's Theme- CR, Bond Meets Stacy - AVTAK,

    4. Transition Motifs - for when Bond switches location, quotes from title theme ideally
    Welcome to Baku - TWINE, I Am The Money - CR, Shanghai Drive - SF

    5. Action Motifs - which quotes from title theme / end themes but incorporates maybe three or four note quotes from the Bond theme-
    Caviar Factory - TWINE, Backseat Driver - TND, The Palio - QoS, Ice Bandits - TWINE

    6. Monty Norman Bond Theme - A straight literal rendition of the theme at some point
    Breadcrumbs - SF, The Name's Bond, James Bond - CR

    I think the reason AVTAK, TLD, TWINE and CR work so well as soundtracks is because they really follow this structure, which Skyfall does not perse. With the exception of Severine, Modigliani, The Chimera and perhaps The Bloody Shot there aren't any real stand out tracks. New Digs and Shanghai drive are quite unique but somewhat generic in execution...

    M did actually have a motif for her which was the decending brass chords you hear on 'Voluntary Retirement' and again when she dies in 'Mother', though I found SF had entirely too much repetition in the soundtrack. For example 'The Moor's is essentially a re-composition of 'The Bloody' shot and I found that very lazy. Also when a character like M dies you need to write an actual new theme in my opinion.

    I think Arnold was getting into his stride and would have totally knocked Skyfall out of the park. Would be SO cool if one day they release films again with different composers each giving their take on a soundtrack!
  • wildboonjivewildboonjive
    Posts: 299
    LicenceRevoked wrote:
    I think David Arnold really followed the John Barry formula to a T. I've listened to countless Bond soundtracks and even composed a few of my own, so I have paid a great deal of attention to this and the winning formula for this appears to be as follows:

    1. Title Theme / Motif - Has to be strong and memorable. Goldeneye is a great title song but hard to see how to quote it in a score, same with Tomorrow Never Dies or Another Way To Die...
    The World Is Not Enough - TWINE, We Have All The Time In The World - OHMSS - From Russia With Love - FRWL

    2. End or Alternate Theme / Motif
    Where Did Everybody Go? - TLD, Surrender - TND

    3. Love Interest Motif - played to reference the main Bond girl of the film, not the auxilliary one, i.e for Vesper not Solange, for Camille, not Fields.
    Vesper's Theme- CR, Bond Meets Stacy - AVTAK,

    4. Transition Motifs - for when Bond switches location, quotes from title theme ideally
    Welcome to Baku - TWINE, I Am The Money - CR, Shanghai Drive - SF

    5. Action Motifs - which quotes from title theme / end themes but incorporates maybe three or four note quotes from the Bond theme-
    Caviar Factory - TWINE, Backseat Driver - TND, The Palio - QoS, Ice Bandits - TWINE

    6. Monty Norman Bond Theme - A straight literal rendition of the theme at some point
    Breadcrumbs - SF, The Name's Bond, James Bond - CR

    I think the reason AVTAK, TLD, TWINE and CR work so well as soundtracks is because they really follow this structure, which Skyfall does not perse. With the exception of Severine, Modigliani, The Chimera and perhaps The Bloody Shot there aren't any real stand out tracks. New Digs and Shanghai drive are quite unique but somewhat generic in execution...

    M did actually have a motif for her which was the decending brass chords you hear on 'Voluntary Retirement' and again when she dies in 'Mother', though I found SF had entirely too much repetition in the soundtrack. For example 'The Moor's is essentially a re-composition of 'The Bloody' shot and I found that very lazy. Also when a character like M dies you need to write an actual new theme in my opinion.

    I think Arnold was getting into his stride and would have totally knocked Skyfall out of the park. Would be SO cool if one day they release films again with different composers each giving their take on a soundtrack!

    Interesting analysis @LicenceRevoked. Quite insightful.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    LicenceRevoked wrote:
    I think David Arnold really followed the John Barry formula to a T. I've listened to countless Bond soundtracks and even composed a few of my own, so I have paid a great deal of attention to this and the winning formula for this appears to be as follows:

    1. Title Theme / Motif - Has to be strong and memorable. Goldeneye is a great title song but hard to see how to quote it in a score, same with Tomorrow Never Dies or Another Way To Die...
    The World Is Not Enough - TWINE, We Have All The Time In The World - OHMSS - From Russia With Love - FRWL

    2. End or Alternate Theme / Motif
    Where Did Everybody Go? - TLD, Surrender - TND

    3. Love Interest Motif - played to reference the main Bond girl of the film, not the auxilliary one, i.e for Vesper not Solange, for Camille, not Fields.
    Vesper's Theme- CR, Bond Meets Stacy - AVTAK,

    4. Transition Motifs - for when Bond switches location, quotes from title theme ideally
    Welcome to Baku - TWINE, I Am The Money - CR, Shanghai Drive - SF

    5. Action Motifs - which quotes from title theme / end themes but incorporates maybe three or four note quotes from the Bond theme-
    Caviar Factory - TWINE, Backseat Driver - TND, The Palio - QoS, Ice Bandits - TWINE

    6. Monty Norman Bond Theme - A straight literal rendition of the theme at some point
    Breadcrumbs - SF, The Name's Bond, James Bond - CR

    I think the reason AVTAK, TLD, TWINE and CR work so well as soundtracks is because they really follow this structure, which Skyfall does not perse. With the exception of Severine, Modigliani, The Chimera and perhaps The Bloody Shot there aren't any real stand out tracks. New Digs and Shanghai drive are quite unique but somewhat generic in execution...

    M did actually have a motif for her which was the decending brass chords you hear on 'Voluntary Retirement' and again when she dies in 'Mother', though I found SF had entirely too much repetition in the soundtrack. For example 'The Moor's is essentially a re-composition of 'The Bloody' shot and I found that very lazy. Also when a character like M dies you need to write an actual new theme in my opinion.

    I think Arnold was getting into his stride and would have totally knocked Skyfall out of the park. Would be SO cool if one day they release films again with different composers each giving their take on a soundtrack!

    Excellent analysis. I liked Newman's score but I honestly think Arnold would have done a better job on it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Continue here:
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4347/bond-misses-david-arnold/p1
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2163/the-music-of-david-arnold./p1
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1692/the-best-of-david-arnold/p1
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