"No limits, no fears, no substitutes?": Let's discuss... GoldenEye (1995)/ Poll

24

Comments

  • edited April 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Quoting Moonraker:

    Not to mention all that 'sexist mysogynist dinosaur' drek that spills from
    M's mouth. With that line, the castration of Bond had began.
    which got worse in the frankly overrated Daniel Craig era
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited April 2011 Posts: 1,986
    Quoting BAIN123: @ Luds. Dare I say it Daylights isn't a masterpiece.
    No, you may not. ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Quoting Lazenby.: DaltonCraig007=No limits, no fears, no substitutes (and no biased nostalgia either, for that matter).
    ;;)
  • Posts: 11,189
    I'm nostalgic. So what?? Most of us are when it comes to Bond.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    Quoting BAIN123: I'm nostalgic. So what?? Most of us are when it comes to Bond.
    Man's got a point. GE comes from a period of my life I'll always fondly look back on because it was profoundly positive and enjoyable for me (late-adolescence; sixth-form schooling; Britpop; Euro '96; early adventures with alcohol and the opposite sex etc) and the film will forever be part of that. Things such as tradition, style and nostalgia are important to people - just as today indicates ;) - and they are no less to Bond and his fans either...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I voted 3 points... Who voted 1 ?? Lazenby. !! :-))
  • Posts: 4,762
    The best, #1 Bond movie of all time, it has never and will never be topped! It has the greatest group of villains, a magnificent performance by Pierce Brosnan, epic music, exciting, blow-your-mind action, great-looking women, and dangerously awesome stunts!
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 26
    When GE first came out i loved it!!!!

    I saw it at the Odeon Leicester Sq 4 TIMES!!! and spent a small fortune on merchandise and magazines etc.

    I was so excited as it was my first Bond film. I was born in 79 and wasn't until 92 that i became REALLY sad and got into Bond. However GE has become dated so quickly compared to the other Bonds.

    Also GE suffers the same fate as all the other Brosnan films and that is the ending. It has NO tension whatsoever. GE for example, as soon as Natalaya had gave to return to earth signal to the Satellite it was GAME over.. Once a satellite is on a return to earth flightpath there is sod all you can do about it. So the final 20 minutes was pretty pointless and Boris just plain annoying.


    It still stands up as Brosnan's best film but alas all that promise was p****d away with TND and the others.
  • GE is a 10 for sure. This and TWINE are both classics, brosnan is great.
  • Posts: 1,310
    I am completely shocked that GoldenEye is getting so much hate here!!!!!!!

    Alright, alright, I will agree with the fact that Brosnan is upstaged by just about everyone ESPECIALLY Sean Bean, who I think would have made a better Bond in the first place....

    HOWEVER

    GoldenEye is Brosnan's best film by a good amount and is a superior Bond film. The girls are great, the villains are great (minus Boris), and Campbell's direction is spot on.

    8/10 from me, GoldenEye sits in my top 10 at number 8.

    7. The Living Daylights (1987) - 8.5/10
    8. GoldenEye (1995) - 8/10
    9. You Only Live Twice (1967) - 7.5/10
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    A greatest hits Bond film that launched our venerable hero into the nineties. There really is a lot to enjoy with this one, namely a superb primary cast and a very strong script.

    Indeed this script helps anchor GoldenEye’s more fantastical elements, allowing for some rare moments of introspection. The script also cleverly asks Bond to validate himself in the post cold war era, something he achieves with aplomb.

    There are a few quibbles; some of the action scenes need trimming, while Boris gets far too much screentime, especially for such an annoying and superfluous character. Also it looks an eighties film.

    8

  • Posts: 2,341
    I think GE is Brosnan's best. Although he was outshined by the rest of the cast , GE does have some silly Bondian cliches but the fight between him and Trevelyn at the end is very very good. Xenia is fun, I liked Boris and the rest of Janus. The only weak link is Brosnan's hairdo and his acting. he was just out of place and kinda uncomfortable being his first outing. He did better in his later films but the scripts and everything else sucked anally.
  • I couldn't get past the fact when Joe Don Baker first appeared and thought 'hang on, what's Whitaker doing in this', the Wade character is OK for the first time but gets a bit on the nerves second time around in Tomorrow Never Dies. Brosnan's second best of the four he did, Jansenn was wasted as an embarrassing bad girl, Turner did not too bad with the tunes, it was maybe the most talked about pre credits sequence of the series up to time of release, Martin Campbell did a fine job directing, Sean Bean was good as Trevelyan, maybe could of been Bond himself, I wish the Boris Grishenko character had been omitted, Izabella Scorupco was an attractive lady but sometimes a little irritating, lots to get involved in, the Tank Chase around 'Saint Petersburg', and the 'on the train countdown' , but once they go to Cuba I usually lose interest I'm afraid, it all gets a bit dull, just as with the TND when Bond leaves Hamburg for the Far East, all said it's a good Bond but nothing of classic status
  • Posts: 11,189
    I do think that Baker's character in GE is FAR more appropriate for him than Whitiker was in TLD.
  • Posts: 7,653
    GE was a welcome comeback after two movies with a supporting actor with leading pretentions but lacking any charisma.

    Brosnan remains for me an excellent 007, too bad he didn't get his fifth movie that was toned down not unlike FYEO.

    Of course there were momets in the movies that failed to impress me, but the Craig era suffers much more from failing directors and bad endings.
  • Posts: 4,762
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I do think that Baker's character in GE is FAR more appropriate for him than Whitiker was in TLD.

    Exactly. Brad Whitaker is one of the lowest villains in the series, because #1, he isn't threatening enough, and #2, he doesn't get enough screentime to even be important. For me, the main villain of TLD is Necros, the one worthy villain in the whole movie, whereas Koskov and Whitaker are jokes.

    And by the way, I'll say it again, GoldenEye is Number 1 all the way!!!
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    BAIN123 wrote:
    and this is coming from someone who considers MWTGG and DAF as two of the finest Bond films ;)

    And are you saying they aren't fine Bond films? I think they are quite good, and they are both good enough to be in my top ten Bond films list, which is more than I can say for GoldenEye. GoldenEye never wanted to be anything more than a middle of the road, "safe", generic action film for the whole family to enjoy. At least TMWTGG and DAF tried to be something other than just a film. GE is extremely overrated, don't think it's really that great, it was the end of real Bond as we knew it. Seems most people like it on nostalgia and nothing more, which isn't really a good reason to like it. It would have probably been better with Dalton, considering he is a much finer actor than Brosnan.

  • Posts: 4,762
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    and this is coming from someone who considers MWTGG and DAF as two of the finest Bond films ;)

    And are you saying they aren't fine Bond films? I think they are quite good, and they are both good enough to be in my top ten Bond films list, which is more than I can say for GoldenEye. GoldenEye never wanted to be anything more than a middle of the road "safe" action film for the whole family to enjoy. At least TMWTGG and DAF tried to be something other than just a film. GE is extremely overrated, don't think it's really that great, it was the end of real Bond as we knew it. It would have probably been better with Dalton, considering he is a much finer actor than Brosnan.

    Wow, a stinging blow Dr_Metz! Just kidding, whatever you think is fine with me. I just can't bear to hear criticism for GoldenEye! I don't really think it was the end of Bond, since Casino Royale turned the series around after the terrible mess that Die Another Day left us in.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    00Beast wrote:
    Wow, a stinging blow Dr_Metz! Just kidding, whatever you think is fine with me. I just can't bear to hear criticism for GoldenEye! I don't really think it was the end of Bond, since Casino Royale turned the series around after the terrible mess that Die Another Day left us in.

    Yeah, a 360° turn. It's not really that down to earth if you pay attention, nor is the writing really that much better. It's also extremely boring. Not an improvement in my eyes. It wasn't worth rebooting a 40 year-old series for a pretty bad attempt at a Bond film.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    Wow, a stinging blow Dr_Metz! Just kidding, whatever you think is fine with me. I just can't bear to hear criticism for GoldenEye! I don't really think it was the end of Bond, since Casino Royale turned the series around after the terrible mess that Die Another Day left us in.

    Yeah, a 360° turn. It's not really that down to earth if you pay attention, nor is the writing really that much better. It's also extremely boring.

    In the hundreds and hundreds of times I've seen GE over the years I have NEVER found it boring. If anything I've felt that with "Dulmonds are Forever" (a few witty lines doesn't cut it in an underwelming film either) and The Man With The Golden Gun (ok Lee's good but Hamilton's direction is sluggish).

    I like it for more than nostalga. I like the characters, the direction and yes Serra's music.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    Wow, a stinging blow Dr_Metz! Just kidding, whatever you think is fine with me. I just can't bear to hear criticism for GoldenEye! I don't really think it was the end of Bond, since Casino Royale turned the series around after the terrible mess that Die Another Day left us in.

    Yeah, a 360° turn. It's not really that down to earth if you pay attention, nor is the writing really that much better. It's also extremely boring.

    I like Casino Royale, especially since Martin Campbell is the director. His work on GE and CR is noticable when comparing the two. While I don't think that CR is the best, it is still in my Top Ten. The locations are awesome, the action sequences are big and epic, but not too far out, and the dialogue is very quote-worthy and memorable, and not for the wrong reasons.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Luds wrote:
    GE had a lot working for it. The public craved for a Bond movie after 6 years, the story itself is very strong. Evidently over 6 years there were plenty of attempts and the final story was a success. Director Martin Campbell did a great job and was a solid choice, and GE's main strength is his very strong international cast. Sean Bean was the star of the movie, and a tremendous villain. Famke Janssen portrayed a very memorable femme fatale, one of the best of the series, Izabella Scorupco was nice choice for the lead girl. Robbie Coltrane, Gottfried John and Alan Cumming were very nice selections for their respective characters. Judi Dench certainly broke the mold for M and had her best performance with the character, Samantha Bond did a decent job with Moneypenny. I have no idea why they chose not to use Felix Leiter, but Joe Don Baker portrayed a decent one in Jack Wade. The soundtrack was fine for what it was, the GE theme song was very nice by Tina Turner, there really isn't much not to like in this flick. That leaves us with the absence of a competent actor portraying Bond. To the Dalton enthusiasts, this is a crime as the movie was written specifically for him in mind but I don't know of GE with Dalton would have surpassed the masterpiece that is known as The Living Daylights.

    It's never really occured to me that GE might have been written with Dalton in mind. Since he is eminently more watchable than Brozza and has a substantial screen presence where Brozza has none, it could only have made for a 'better' movie. The confrontation between Dalton and Bean might actually have had a bit of genuine tension. As it is you know Sean Bean would beat the living daylights out of of Brozza any day of the week, so the whole scenario feels unbelieveable. However, for various reasons, most of which have been outlined above, GE is a fundamentally flawed film. The preposterous blue-screen 'stunt' with the plane ruined it from the start for me. What a let-down from the franchise that has always delivered fine stunts. Any one who brings up the bungee jump should consider how 'cool' it is for Bond to be seen engaging in an activity most often associated with gap year students and corporate bonding weekends.

    Imo Dench was never that great in the first place. Although briefly amusing and the novelty of a female M wore off long ago. The rest of the cast I can take or leave without too much concern. Jack Wade is awful - almost a return to the tobacco-chewing cop character in the early Rog outings. Scoro-whatshername (whatever happened to her?) is bland and dull. Famke, although a fine actress and not unattractive, is unfortunately cast as Cruella DeVille in GE and cannot for one moment be taken seriously either as a temptress or a villain.

    A further concern I have with GE is the way in which it uses this 'personal' dimension between Bond and Trevelyan. Obviously, the stories have had personal motivations/aspects previously, not least in OHMSS and LTK. However, since LTK and encompassing almost all the subsequent movies, there seems to have developed an obsession with the idea that Bond must have some personal reason for pursuing the villain. In TND it's the murder of the emminently deserving Teri Hatcher character. In TWINE, there's some twaddle about M's past (sound familiar to any one working on Skyfall?) and, I seem to remember, a yawn-inducing 'history' with Sophie Morceau's character. In DUD, Bond is implausibly imprissoned by and unable to escape from a tin-pot Communist dictatorship (this wouldn't happen to the Bond character we know and love), where he grows his hair long and seems to go through some kind of psychological crisis. It continues in a similar vein with CR (here the personal story is based on the novel, so I can stomach it) and more pointlessly with QoS. Now it seems we're going to be fed more of this pseudo-psychological guff with Skyfall.

    When is Bond just going to get a proper mission from a proper ex-military M, bed the girl/s, bosh the baddies and sail away in an escape pod? Ah... those were the days.

  • edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    BAIN123 wrote:
    In the hundreds and hundreds of times I've seen GE over the years.
    I was talking about Casino Royale.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    and yes Serra's music.
    I didn't mind Serra's score; one of the better things about the film actually.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    In the hundreds and hundreds of times I've seen GE over the years.
    I was talking about Casino Royale.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    and yes Serra's music.
    I didn't mind Serra's score; one of the better things about the film actually.

    My mistake :)

    Another controversial thing is its use of model work. Yes its pretty bad at times but I think there's a poignancy when you consider Derek Meddings was responsible. I'm sure quite a few people know Meddings did quite a bit of the model work on earlier films as well as some of the Gerry Anderson shows (I was re-watching Captain Scarlet the other day - the BEST Anderson show - and his name popped up) so what better way to end his career than working on a film that (albeit temporily) rebooted the series.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dr Metz, why do you use a picture of Jim Callaghan? I'm impressed and intrigued! Is it an oblique reference to the last 'great' Bond - TSWLM - which coincided with Jim's premierhsip? Or is it a declaration of political affiliations? Either way, I approve.
  • Posts: 4,762
    Getafix wrote:
    Dr Metz, why do you use a picture of Jim Callaghan? I'm impressed and intrigued! Is it an oblique reference to the last 'great' Bond - TSWLM - which coincided with Jim's premierhsip? Or is it a declaration of political affiliations? Either way, I approve.

    Last great Bond? How about FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, TWINE, CR, or QoS? Just asking, not trying to be mean here, but why don't you think of the others as great?
  • Posts: 11,425
    00Beast wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I do think that Baker's character in GE is FAR more appropriate for him than Whitiker was in TLD.

    Exactly. Brad Whitaker is one of the lowest villains in the series, because #1, he isn't threatening enough, and #2, he doesn't get enough screentime to even be important. For me, the main villain of TLD is Necros, the one worthy villain in the whole movie, whereas Koskov and Whitaker are jokes.

    And by the way, I'll say it again, GoldenEye is Number 1 all the way!!!

    The point here is that Baker should never have been allowed near a Bond set, regardless of which witless moron he was portraying.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    BAIN123 wrote:
    (ok Lee's good but Hamilton's direction is sluggish).
    I liked Guy Hamilton. At least he didn't just completely reuse plots like Gilbert did.
    Getafix wrote:
    Dr Metz, why do you use a picture of Jim Callaghan? I'm impressed and intrigued! Is it an oblique reference to the last 'great' Bond - TSWLM - which coincided with Jim's premierhsip? Or is it a declaration of political affiliations? Either way, I approve.
    No real reason. Didn't mind him that much though, I really dislike Harold Wilson however.

  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I liked Wade, he was a great character. Flamboyant yet intelligent (at least in GE)
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    I liked Guy Hamilton. At least he didn't just completely reuse plots like Gilbert did.

    Hamilton was great for GF but after that he was just...urgh. I rewatched DAF some time back and almost fell asleep once they got into the desert.

    At least Gilbert had a spectacle and enthusiasm in all of his three films.
  • Posts: 11,425
    00Beast wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Dr Metz, why do you use a picture of Jim Callaghan? I'm impressed and intrigued! Is it an oblique reference to the last 'great' Bond - TSWLM - which coincided with Jim's premierhsip? Or is it a declaration of political affiliations? Either way, I approve.

    Last great Bond? How about FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, TWINE, CR, or QoS? Just asking, not trying to be mean here, but why don't you think of the others as great?

    TSWLM is IMO the last truly great Bond film. I'm interested in the production design and appearance of the films as much as anything, and Ken Adam's sets are fantastic. Rog has by this film fully hit his stride and I've always been a bit of a sucker for Barbara Bach in a clingy evening gown. That said, the later Roger movies certainly have their moments and I am a huge fan of TLD. Although an admirer of Dalton, LTK has never quite done it for me. I'll skip over the Brozza films for politeness sake and jump to CR, which was okay but too long and humourless. QoS I quite liked, but hardly classic Bond.
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