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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    patb wrote: »
    First Blood - 1982

    Love this film for so many reasons. Very interesting to read abot all the poosible cast options and the plot of the original book. Stallone deserves full credit not only for his performance but for his rewrite and have the forsight to portray Rambo as the victim. As with all great leading men, you just cant imagine any other actor playing Rambo. The supporting case were superb but I was intrigued that Gene Hackman was once lined up of for the sheriff role which would have been great casting.

    More wonderful 80s action to treasure and not a pixel insight.

    Saw this at the cinema when it came out in way back in 1982.

    Loved it then and I still love it now. Really great performance from Stallone. Some excellent action and has one of my favourite Jerry Goldsmith scores.

    The original novel by David Morrell is well worth a read.

    Kirk Douglas was almost cast as Col. Trautman but he backed out at the last minute due to a dispute over the script.
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    I was underwhelmed by First Blood.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Imagine Arnold as Rambo.

    "I am your wuuurst nightmere."
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited March 2017 Posts: 3,333
    That's true, @Pine, about Kirk Douglas being attached right up until the last minute. I do recall Barry Norman on Film 82 giving it the thumbs up, too, despite a lot of critics at the time panning it for not having a satisfactory resolution by not following the book and having Rambo die at the end. Strange when you think how today's critical views are held in such high esteem by younger audiences, when if we'd have believed every word they wrote in 82 then First Blood would've have been cold-stone dead on arrival at the box office and there would never have been the sequels that followed.
  • patbpatb
    edited March 2017 Posts: 4,603
    While its interesting to think of different actors in the role, Stallone completely re-wrote the film re the message it sends so , its not really possible to place other actors into the role that Stallone played as he made it such a better film. Its a very brave ending, to see him collapse in tears like a baby and look for comfort from his old boss. He is a mental wreck and deserving of our sympathy. I have not read the book but my understanding is that it is very different. Stallone does not get a fair shout IMHO, he is a very perceptive fellow.
    PS plus the original movie was over three hours and Stallone hated it, trying to buy the rights but, thankfully, it was re-cut to a much shorter movie.

    This scene is a great example of how you can build tension with limited resources. Two great actors, a bridge plus great dialogue and directing. You dont need big budgets, CGI, 3d glasses etc etc to create tension and excitement. Love this scene.....good scripts have pivotal points where the main character makes a choice to go down a certain route and it will be too late to go back. At 40 seconds we see this in literal and symbolic form. The music (and a bell?) kick in and the rollercoaster begins.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    To anyone who has watched Arrival is it worth buying?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    bondsum wrote: »
    That's true, @Pine, about Kirk Douglas being attached right up until the last minute. I do recall Barry Norman on Film 82 giving it the thumbs up, too, despite a lot of critics at the time panning it for not having a satisfactory resolution by not following the book and having Rambo die at the end. Strange when you think how today's critical views are held in such high esteem by younger audiences, when if we'd have believed every word they wrote in 82 then First Blood would've have been cold-stone dead on arrival at the box office and there would never have been the sequels that followed.

    I'm pretty sure it was generally well reviewed in 82. All the film mags I read back then liked it and it got the thumbs up on Film 82. One of my favourite programmes back then!

    It's an action film with a sympathetic protagonist. It's also raw and emotional. Better than the 'gun-fu' CGI wank that passes for action these days.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603
    "First Blood originally received generally mixed reviews, with several critics noting that the plot lacks any sense of credibility.[15] Variety called the film "a mess" and criticized its ending for not providing a proper resolution for the main character.[16] Although Bill Chambers of Film Freak Central praised Stallone's performance, stating that he "hits his climactic breakdown monologue out of the park" with a performance that was "sweet and moving", he gave the film two stars out of four. He stated "devotees of Joseph Campbell embrace First Blood because it has clear mythological roots, but recognizable art isn't always valid art".[17] Leonard Maltin gave the film one-and a half stars out of four, saying that it "throws all creditability to the winds about the time [Rambo] gets off with only a bad cut after jumping from a mountain into some jagged rocks."[18]"

    From Wiki
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    To anyone who has watched Arrival is it worth buying?
    Absolutely.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I do remember David Morrell hating the characterization of Rambo in the first three films because it made him a sympathetic character one can relate to, whereas in the book, Rambo was a downright cold bastard from start to finish, according to what I've read, hence he went to novelize II and III later on with proper portrait of the man. However, still according to Morrell, in John Rambo, the character was handled properly hence he didn't novelize that one.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    patb wrote: »
    "First Blood originally received generally mixed reviews, with several critics noting that the plot lacks any sense of credibility.[15] Variety called the film "a mess" and criticized its ending for not providing a proper resolution for the main character.[16] Although Bill Chambers of Film Freak Central praised Stallone's performance, stating that he "hits his climactic breakdown monologue out of the park" with a performance that was "sweet and moving", he gave the film two stars out of four. He stated "devotees of Joseph Campbell embrace First Blood because it has clear mythological roots, but recognizable art isn't always valid art".[17] Leonard Maltin gave the film one-and a half stars out of four, saying that it "throws all creditability to the winds about the time [Rambo] gets off with only a bad cut after jumping from a mountain into some jagged rocks."[18]"

    From Wiki

    Yeah, but I think it was quite well received in the UK.

    No Rottentomatoes.com back then!
    ;)
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    jake24 wrote: »
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    To anyone who has watched Arrival is it worth buying?
    Absolutely.

    It's available to buy HD download not seen it yet, though you cannot rent it until next week though I hate renting a film I end up liking and wanting to buy. I do like my Sci fi I'll take a gamble cheers

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    If you liked the rest of Denis Villeneuve's films, you'll certainly like this one.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Florence Foster Jenkins

    Very funny yet also poignant story of the woman who was probably the worst Opera singer in the public eye. Meryl Streep smashes it yet again and both her and Hugh Grant (playing her loyal husband) create some genuinely moving moments in their scenes together,

    ...and yes it did make me go on Youtube and look up the real Florence Foster Jenkins #-o

  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Universal Soldier (1992) - Have to say I like this. I've been watching a lot of Van Damme / Lundgren / Seagal / Snipes movies lately, mostly direct to DVD. This though I've always enjoyed.

    Wild Tales (2014) - Got to say I absolutely loved this Argentinian movie. 6 tales of violent revenge. All different, all with their own little twists. Superb, would recommend to anyone who enjoys a good anthology movie.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I first saw First Blood some years ago and quite liked it. I think its interesting how he's not really a muscle-bound action hero until the sequels. In the original, he's more the tortured veteran driven to the brink by his experiences.

    @LeonardPine. I loved Barry Norman too but I didn't become a fan until 1996 when I was 10. I remember being genuinely upset when he left the bbc two years later. I later got a signed copy of his book "...And why Not?" when I went to a talk he did in 2008.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    This scene is a great example of how you can build tension with limited resources. Two great actors, a bridge plus great dialogue and directing. You dont need big budgets, CGI, 3d glasses etc etc to create tension and excitement. Love this scene.....good scripts have pivotal points where the main character makes a choice to go down a certain route and it will be too late to go back. At 40 seconds we see this in literal and symbolic form. The music (and a bell?) kick in and the rollercoaster begins.
    That is indeed a wonderful scene, and one of many in this film.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I first saw First Blood some years ago and quite liked it. I think its interesting how he's not really a muscle-bound action hero until the sequels. In the original, he's more the tortured veteran driven to the brink by his experiences.
    I'm not a fan of any of the sequels. I'm not sure if it's for the reason you mention or not though. FB is the only John Rambo film I like.
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    Classe tous risques (1960)

    Good french crime flick.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited March 2017 Posts: 3,333
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I first saw First Blood some years ago and quite liked it. I think its interesting how he's not really a muscle-bound action hero until the sequels. In the original, he's more the tortured veteran driven to the brink by his experiences.

    @LeonardPine. I loved Barry Norman too but I didn't become a fan until 1996 when I was 10. I remember being genuinely upset when he left the bbc two years later. I later got a signed copy of his book "...And why Not?" when I went to a talk he did in 2008.
    Let's not forget that Barry Norman absolutely hated virtually all horror movies and never gave them a good or favourable review, only exceptions I can recall were The Wicker Man and The Blood on Satan's Claw, so he wasn't without his faults as a critic. Also, when I say he gave First Blood the thumbs up, it wasn't without reservations on the overblown violence, nor did he put it on the same peg as The Deer Hunter, but generally he seemed to enjoy it. However, he disliked Rambo 2 and 3 immensely. Also, @Leonard, the majority of movie magazines back in 82 weren't that critical of movies, such as Film Review and Photoplay - I can't think of many others. They tended to mostly only act as a promotional tool for current and upcoming movies, unless the movie was a total dog and everyone was aware of it, they tended to both go softly on criticism. Newspaper critics were entirely different, such as Alexander Walker and Ian Christie, who were the most popular and powerful here in the U.K.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    @bondsum. The thing is I don't remember First Blood having "overblown violence". I fact, I don't think its actually that violent at all. From my recollection it has a body count of one.

    Also, I can't say I remember a lot of Barry Norman's views on specific horror films. Though I do remember him doing one interview with William Friedkin in which he talks about feeling unsettled after watching The Exorcist and describing it as "the only film that's ever scared him".
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    bondsum wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I first saw First Blood some years ago and quite liked it. I think its interesting how he's not really a muscle-bound action hero until the sequels. In the original, he's more the tortured veteran driven to the brink by his experiences.

    @LeonardPine. I loved Barry Norman too but I didn't become a fan until 1996 when I was 10. I remember being genuinely upset when he left the bbc two years later. I later got a signed copy of his book "...And why Not?" when I went to a talk he did in 2008.
    Let's not forget that Barry Norman absolutely hated virtually all horror movies and never gave them a good or favourable review, only exceptions I can recall were The Wicker Man and The Blood on Satan's Claw, so he wasn't without his faults as a critic. Also, when I say he gave First Blood the thumbs up, it wasn't without reservations on the overblown violence, nor did he put it on the same peg as The Deer Hunter, but generally he seemed to enjoy it. However, he disliked Rambo 2 and 3 immensely. Also, @Leonard, the majority of movie magazines back in 82 weren't that critical of movies, such as Film Review and Photoplay - I can't think of many others. They tended to mostly only act as a promotional tool for current and upcoming movies, unless the movie was a total dog and everyone was aware of it, they tended to both go softly on criticism. Newspaper critics were entirely different, such as Alexander Walker and Ian Christie, who were the most popular and powerful here in the U.K.

    I used to get 'Film Review' every month. This was one of the few film magazines around at the time. Before Empire and Total Film came on the scene.

    I remember the snotty write up Film Review gave Blade Runner in 1982. A cursory mention of it being 'An overdone fancy lightshow....!'

    In the mid-eighties I started getting 'Time Out magazine' whose reviews I really respected and mostly agreed with.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603
    Its a tribute to FB that people regard it as violent. It's a key part of the plot that Rambo does not kill anyone, despite massive motivations and many opportunities. It is "description though action" as it shows that, despite all the killing he has seen and despite his mental condition, he is still able to seperate between right and wrong: contrasting with the sherrif's team who are judgemental and corrupt in how they abuse their postions of legal authority.
    Re the clip I posted, I only just noticed the stars and stripe patch on his coat - these things add to the movie IMHO. I also like the way he pauses and then puts his collar up - preparing for the oncoming storm that he knows he is walking into. The rest of the Rambo follow ups are just trash IMHO which is a shame as FB tends to be "guilty by association". It should be respected as a standalone film.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    patb wrote: »
    Its a tribute to FB that people regard it as violent. It's a key part of the plot that Rambo does not kill anyone, despite massive motivations and many opportunities. It is "description though action" as it shows that, despite all the killing he has seen and despite his mental condition, he is still able to seperate between right and wrong: contrasting with the sherrif's team who are judgemental and corrupt in how they abuse their postions of legal authority.
    Re the clip I posted, I only just noticed the stars and stripe patch on his coat - these things add to the movie IMHO. I also like the way he pauses and then puts his collar up - preparing for the oncoming storm that he knows he is walking into. The rest of the Rambo follow ups are just trash IMHO which is a shame as FB tends to be "guilty by association". It should be respected as a standalone film.

    You're right @patb

    First Blood is an intelligent action thriller based on a very good novel. And should be considered a standalone film.

    The other 'Rambo' films are mindless action films, turning Rambo into an unstoppable killing machine.

    I hated having one of my favourite films associated with them.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    @LeonardPine, what about John Rambo? I thought the fourth one was quite good!

    The second and third films, even though abysmal in comparison, are guilty pleasures of mine.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603
    Its a shame re Stallone that he is a clever guy re scripts and directing but, too often, has just gone for the money rather than develop his very real talent. Overdue to watch Cop Land again, great movie IMHO
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited March 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Well, @patb, he did try to subvert from his action hero image many times, but they didn't work... Most notably the 1991 comedy film Oscar (which also is a guilty pleasure of mine).
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,603
    First Blood and the first Rocky show that you can still be an action hero but still make movies with depth and character.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I do like Stephen Berkoff's demise in First Blood: Part 2.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    @LeonardPine, what about John Rambo? I thought the fourth one was quite good!

    The second and third films, even though abysmal in comparison, are guilty pleasures of mine.

    True @ClarkDevlin, I thought John Rambo was a fun throwback to all those 70's exploitation films. The cheap grimy look of the film and the over the top gore really nailed that era. More so than Grindhouse or any of Eli Roth's output.

    And it's so far removed from First Blood I can enjoy it for what it is.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,407
    First Blood is an excellent action movie. Really well made. Only losing its footing with Stallones mumbled speech at the end! Director Ted Kotcheff was one of the frontrunners for Bond 17 when Dalton was still attached. Would have been interesting!
    Recently viewed Kotcheffs cult movie 'Wake in Fright', with Donald Pleasance. Worth a look!
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