Anyone wish they had rebooted the series earlier?

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  • Posts: 1,052
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Quarrel wrote:
    I would love to take all the timeline/continuity lovers and have them watch the original Aeon Flux animated series or shorts (not so much the later series with the dialog). It would be fun to watch their minds explode while trying to wrap around that one.

    (Spoiler Alert: She dies at the end of every mission.)

    Oh Aeon Flux, how I love that series! (not the film though)

    Other examples of distorted continuity:
    The Evil Dead and Evil Dead II. Try to connect those. ;-)

    Easy, first 10 mins of Evil Dead 2 are a recap and the new films starts from the force catching up with Ash.

    anyway as mentioned the reboot origin stuff is done with now, so onwards to a cracking adventure for Bond 24!
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Quarrel wrote:
    I would love to take all the timeline/continuity lovers and have them watch the original Aeon Flux animated series or shorts (not so much the later series with the dialog). It would be fun to watch their minds explode while trying to wrap around that one.

    (Spoiler Alert: She dies at the end of every mission.)

    Oh Aeon Flux, how I love that series! (not the film though)

    Other examples of distorted continuity:
    The Evil Dead and Evil Dead II. Try to connect those. ;-)

    Simple just remove the first 5 minutes of Evil Dead 2 and start off at the scene where the evil force hits Ash....the only reason that retconed the beginning was because of unable to use the original ED1 footage
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    Ludovico wrote:
    I think my main gripe is losing out on the OHMSS plot, specifically in regards to Tracy. Sure, we got Vesper in the new timeline, but to me, these inconsequential references to Bond having been married add so much more to the character. I think I'd be a mistake to remake any of the films. I'm not one to try to find a thread of continuity in all of the films, but I think BB and MGW have to do at least the bare minimum to "connect" these two timelines somehow (even though SF more or less already did that). Mad hyper fans like us do care about that to a certain extent, I think.

    The Batman series can get away with that because the stories have been constantly retconned or restarted throughout its existence. Throughout the bulk of the series, the Bond cycle has always been through a loopy continuity (evidenced through Gardner's and Benson's extension of the original Fleming stories and to a lessser extent the film series).

    But what did they do with Tracy's death in the previous continuity? Barely anything, a few passing mentions, that's it. In DAF she was forgotten almost before the PTS was over! And don't get me wrong, Tracy's death was a major moment in the Bond franchise, but the event was never treated like it should have been.

    After OHMSS Bond's wife and her death were mentioned in TSWLM, FYEO and LTK.

  • Posts: 15,117
    DB5 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I think my main gripe is losing out on the OHMSS plot, specifically in regards to Tracy. Sure, we got Vesper in the new timeline, but to me, these inconsequential references to Bond having been married add so much more to the character. I think I'd be a mistake to remake any of the films. I'm not one to try to find a thread of continuity in all of the films, but I think BB and MGW have to do at least the bare minimum to "connect" these two timelines somehow (even though SF more or less already did that). Mad hyper fans like us do care about that to a certain extent, I think.

    The Batman series can get away with that because the stories have been constantly retconned or restarted throughout its existence. Throughout the bulk of the series, the Bond cycle has always been through a loopy continuity (evidenced through Gardner's and Benson's extension of the original Fleming stories and to a lessser extent the film series).

    But what did they do with Tracy's death in the previous continuity? Barely anything, a few passing mentions, that's it. In DAF she was forgotten almost before the PTS was over! And don't get me wrong, Tracy's death was a major moment in the Bond franchise, but the event was never treated like it should have been.

    After OHMSS Bond's wife and her death were mentioned in TSWLM, FYEO and LTK.

    That is hardly a lot. Those were good moments, don't get me wrong, but as I said they were passing mentions.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 546
    EON could have rebooted the James Bond franchise twice. Say if EON had the copyrights of Ian Fleming's CR novel, Cubby cast Sir Timothy Dalton as James Bond in 1986 & he can star in CR in 1987. Or Say if EON got the copyrights of CR in 1990 0r 1991, after the six year hiatus, Cubby cast Pierce Brosnan as James Bond in CR. Personally, Michael & Barbara didn't need to reboot the James Bond franchise after DAD. The only complaint I have about the reboot is the way Michael & Barbara treated Pierce Brosnan.
  • Posts: 1,492
    002 wrote:

    * Moneypenny is not african british

    It was 2012 not 1952 - moneypenny will be from streatham or harlesden via oxford rather then roedean
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    Three films in and the new rebooted timeline is a mess.

    CR - No problems. It's the start of the new timeline, after all.

    QOS - Supposedly takes place right after the events in CR. However, two years have mysteriously elapsed and MI6 has been relocated to a residential section of the Barbican.

    SF - An indeterminate amount of time has passed since QOS, where we are to assume Bond has gone on more missions and had more experience.
    MI6 have moved back to the decidedly less "design agency" surrounds of the QOS offices and back to Millbank. Not the worst continuity failure the series has had, but hey.
    More importantly, Bond now has no autonomy in the field. This is a continuity error because Bond has never needed to have his hand held before. Ever. And this is an essential part of what makes a "oo" agent. Now, not only is he monitored via satellite and CCTV, he is connected directly to M via comms. And, if that weren't enough, he now has a back up field agent to shoot him if things don't work out. But then SF breaks it's own continuity and he's be left to his own devices as soon as they have a report saying he's not fit for active duty.
    In a series of unlikely but somehow orchestrated coincidences, the villain forces Bond to take matters into his own hands. So, he picks up a car THAT HE NEVER OWNED and BELONGS IN ANOTHER TIMELINE, TO ANOTHER BOND. In terms of continuity, this is as big a blunder as Blofeld not recognising Bond. Thank God Connery didn't play Kincaid like they'd planned.

    So, there we have it. Three films in and we're now lost in the quagmire of continuity errors. Now, presumably, Craig's Bond can reach into not only the past but a different reality and pick up whatever weapon or gadget he likes. Perhaps there should have been a clothes rail with all his safari suits on it in that garage as well.

    From now on, I shall refer to Bond's lock up as "the magic garage" that can warp time and space. A bit like the TARDIS or Mr. Ben's clothes shop. From now on, anything is possible in Craig's Bond universe. He just has to nip in the magic garage and get a Q Boat or something. But not an exploding pen. That'd be silly.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    QOS - Supposedly takes place right after the events in CR. However, two years have mysteriously elapsed and MI6 has been relocated to a residential section of the Barbican.

    I'm thinking we're to assume that some time passed between Bond receiving White's text and Bond showing up at White's villa, during CR. The QOS game suggests six months.
  • Benny wrote:
    No, I wish they hadn't rebooted the series at all. Brosnan may have been passed his prime in DAD, but the series didn't need rebooting, it could have come back down to earth with a new actor, not unlike TLD.


    Quite happy to have Craig as Bond, but there was never a need to reboot. Not sure what it's achieved?

    It's given a tired and jaded Series a royal good kick up the ass and Given us a Bond that isn't an out and out superhero but a hero who's flawed, get's beaten but at the end comes out fighting without bloody gadgets. It needed rebooting and now we have a series thats spun two Classic Bond's and one great but flawed film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    QOS - Supposedly takes place right after the events in CR. However, two years have mysteriously elapsed and MI6 has been relocated to a residential section of the Barbican.

    If you are referring to Greene's invitation card, that is likely just a production error. Still, I can understand your confusion. QoS is to be set directly after CR yet they put Bond in a new suit with a new haircut.

    The continuity erros with the MI6 layouts are all about the director's vision, so you can't expect Campbell, Forster and Mendes to have the same vision of what the agency looks like when they are all such different filmmakers.
    SF - An indeterminate amount of time has passed since QOS, where we are to assume Bond has gone on more missions and had more experience.
    MI6 have moved back to the decidedly less "design agency" surrounds of the QOS offices and back to Millbank. Not the worst continuity failure the series has had, but hey.
    More importantly, Bond now has no autonomy in the field. This is a continuity error because Bond has never needed to have his hand held before. Ever. And this is an essential part of what makes a "oo" agent. Now, not only is he monitored via satellite and CCTV, he is connected directly to M via comms.
    Well, considering that the stolen drive was all on M's head (they were HER agents), she wanted to see the operation through since it was her head if it was lost. That seems quite logical to me. Just because Bond has a licence to kill doesn't me he can just do what he pleases. There are rules.
    In a series of unlikely but somehow orchestrated coincidences, the villain forces Bond to take matters into his own hands. So, he picks up a car THAT HE NEVER OWNED and BELONGS IN ANOTHER TIMELINE, TO ANOTHER BOND. In terms of continuity, this is as big a blunder as Blofeld not recognising Bond. Thank God Connery didn't play Kincaid like they'd planned.
    .

    I think this DB5 is the one Bonds wins from Dimitrios in CR and has QBranch fit out. We see Bond win it in CR, and knowing how big a fan Sam is of CR, I don't think it is implausible to surmise that the car in Skyfall is one and the same.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    And considering all the DBS's he's totaled it's obvious MI6 was trying to save money and gave his DB5 an upgrade. :))
  • Posts: 15,117
    I didn't mind the time differences between CR and QOS, I mean I always considered Bond movies to be set in the here and now in movies, a bit like comic books.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Ludovico wrote:
    I didn't mind the time differences between CR and QOS, I mean I always considered Bond movies to be set in the here and now in movies, a bit like comic books.

    That's pretty much how we're supposed to take it, or any other movie not set in a specific time period. Obviously, differences in technology after awhile make that a little harder to do. When we've got a Die Hard about cyberterrorism, we can't keep treating the first film like it's cutting edge.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 96
    Three films in and the new rebooted timeline is a mess.

    CR - No problems. It's the start of the new timeline, after all.

    QOS - Supposedly takes place right after the events in CR. However, two years have mysteriously elapsed and MI6 has been relocated to a residential section of the Barbican.

    SF - An indeterminate amount of time has passed since QOS, where we are to assume Bond has gone on more missions and had more experience.
    MI6 have moved back to the decidedly less "design agency" surrounds of the QOS offices and back to Millbank. Not the worst continuity failure the series has had, but hey.
    More importantly, Bond now has no autonomy in the field. This is a continuity error because Bond has never needed to have his hand held before. Ever. And this is an essential part of what makes a "oo" agent. Now, not only is he monitored via satellite and CCTV, he is connected directly to M via comms. And, if that weren't enough, he now has a back up field agent to shoot him if things don't work out. But then SF breaks it's own continuity and he's be left to his own devices as soon as they have a report saying he's not fit for active duty.
    In a series of unlikely but somehow orchestrated coincidences, the villain forces Bond to take matters into his own hands. So, he picks up a car THAT HE NEVER OWNED and BELONGS IN ANOTHER TIMELINE, TO ANOTHER BOND. In terms of continuity, this is as big a blunder as Blofeld not recognising Bond. Thank God Connery didn't play Kincaid like they'd planned.

    Taking your SF points in order:

    You don't think an organization the size and scope of MI6 would have more than one office?

    You don't think that the mission to recover the hard drive wasn't an organized raid by MI6? Such a raid would require several agents (as was depicted in the movie by the presense of Eve and the other dead agents), and more importantly, would require constant communication between the agents and their commanders. This is a intregal part of every mission by the special forces, police force, secret service, etc. Why would a modern MI6 not do the same?

    Bond DID own the car. He obtained it in CR. The headlight guns, ejector seat, etc, could have easily been added by MI6 later.


    Finally, let me say this: with the exception of CR-QoS, the Bond films are not intended to be a series. Let me say that again: THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE A SERIES. I fail to see why anyone would waste their time trying to make creative works something they were never intended to be. If you absolutely must have strict 100% continuity, then stick to real life. Otherwise you will be nothing but disapointed.

    I promise you, you won't find 100% continuity in the movies, TV or even the original Fleming novels. Trust me - if you let go of the desire for every little detail of your entertainment to line up, then you'll find yourself enjoying things a whole lot more (which is really why we watch these movies, right? To be entertained and to enjoy the experience).

  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    samainsy wrote:
    People have weird names on here anyone called 007?

    Please do not attempt to deliberately derail threads. This can be construed as a breech of the forums T&C's and may result in a warning.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Why do people think Craig's Bond and the other Bonds are in the same timeline? This is quite obviously an alternate universe type take on the character.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Why do people think Craig's Bond and the other Bonds are in the same timeline? This is quite obviously an alternate universe type take on the character.

    OCD, awkwardness? I've given up trying to give rational explanations to people regards the, and I use the word tentatively, 'timeline'.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited April 2013 Posts: 7,854
    samainsy wrote:
    I'm getting annoyed now thinking about this everyday lets just say CR and QoS were set before DN and SF is set in nowadays ok?

    Explain how that makes sense? Bond, in CR and QoS, has a cell phone, a Walther P99 and PPK, gets a tracer planted in his arm (which is then taken out), has access to technological achievements which have only been around for the past 7 years, and is fighting a group called Quantum.

    Bond, in DN onward, is first equipped with a PPK in DN (meaning he has not used one before), only occasionally gets tracking devices (which are never embedded in his skin, nor that small), is eventually given a P99 (once again, when he attains one in TND, he's never used one before, and even calls it the "new Walther"), has been working with Q practically forever (meaning that SF wouldn't be their first meeting, would it?), is only using technological advancements that existed at that time (do you ever see him carrying around a laptop in OHMSS? no!) and is fighting a group called SPECTRE, both of which are similar, in that they are a group of people who are causing acts of terrorism and destabilizing governments, but the similarities stop there.

    So how, with all these discrepancies does it make any sense that CR and QoS are prequels to DN especially after MGW and crew have specifically stated the Craig Bond to be a reboot, which is not a prequel, in any way?

    And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

  • And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

    This forum has become so troll-friendly of late that I have been trying to contribute to helping to clear it. However, if it offends people I'll stop doing it. I have in the past simply flagged posts which were offensive or broke rules, yet even after the same "users" being flagged far more than the "three strikes" rule they have been allowed to continue posting for days or weeks afterwards. Hence, I thought that informing people to stop feeding the trolls was a more effective strategy, as we cannot count on them being banned.

    My apologies for the offence.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854

    And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

    This forum has become so troll-friendly of late that I have been trying to contribute to helping to clear it. However, if it offends people I'll stop doing it. I have in the past simply flagged posts which were offensive or broke rules, yet even after the same "users" being flagged far more than the "three strikes" rule they have been allowed to continue posting for days or weeks afterwards. Hence, I thought that informing people to stop feeding the trolls was a more effective strategy, as we cannot count on them being banned.

    My apologies for the offence.

    I don't think (we're getting off topic again...) that the forum has become troll-friendly, it's simply that the trolls keep coming fast and furious, and the mods can't keep up with them (thanks to the abnormally large amount of them, not to mention the fact that the mods have lives themselves, which is something that no one can say for a troll). I, for one, appreciate your gesture of posting the image, and I thought it was hilarious the first two times I saw it, however it's just been used too many times. We should stop feeding trolls, however a lot of the time, they piss us off too much that we simply need to post something in reply to them.

    You don't really need to apologize for anything, however, by reposting that image over and over and over again, you almost became a troll yourself, temporarily.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    Still, I can understand your confusion.

    I'm not confused.

  • samainsysamainsy Suspended
    Posts: 199
    samainsy wrote:
    I'm getting annoyed now thinking about this everyday lets just say CR and QoS were set before DN and SF is set in nowadays ok?

    Explain how that makes sense? Bond, in CR and QoS, has a cell phone, a Walther P99 and PPK, gets a tracer planted in his arm (which is then taken out), has access to technological achievements which have only been around for the past 7 years, and is fighting a group called Quantum.

    Bond, in DN onward, is first equipped with a PPK in DN (meaning he has not used one before), only occasionally gets tracking devices (which are never embedded in his skin, nor that small), is eventually given a P99 (once again, when he attains one in TND, he's never used one before, and even calls it the "new Walther"), has been working with Q practically forever (meaning that SF wouldn't be their first meeting, would it?), is only using technological advancements that existed at that time (do you ever see him carrying around a laptop in OHMSS? no!) and is fighting a group called SPECTRE, both of which are similar, in that they are a group of people who are causing acts of terrorism and destabilizing governments, but the similarities stop there.

    So how, with all these discrepancies does it make any sense that CR and QoS are prequels to DN especially after MGW and crew have specifically stated the Craig Bond to be a reboot, which is not a prequel, in any way?

    And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

    Yeah I know about the Techy bit but thats the bit I'm confused on.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    samainsy wrote:
    samainsy wrote:
    I'm getting annoyed now thinking about this everyday lets just say CR and QoS were set before DN and SF is set in nowadays ok?

    Explain how that makes sense? Bond, in CR and QoS, has a cell phone, a Walther P99 and PPK, gets a tracer planted in his arm (which is then taken out), has access to technological achievements which have only been around for the past 7 years, and is fighting a group called Quantum.

    Bond, in DN onward, is first equipped with a PPK in DN (meaning he has not used one before), only occasionally gets tracking devices (which are never embedded in his skin, nor that small), is eventually given a P99 (once again, when he attains one in TND, he's never used one before, and even calls it the "new Walther"), has been working with Q practically forever (meaning that SF wouldn't be their first meeting, would it?), is only using technological advancements that existed at that time (do you ever see him carrying around a laptop in OHMSS? no!) and is fighting a group called SPECTRE, both of which are similar, in that they are a group of people who are causing acts of terrorism and destabilizing governments, but the similarities stop there.

    So how, with all these discrepancies does it make any sense that CR and QoS are prequels to DN especially after MGW and crew have specifically stated the Craig Bond to be a reboot, which is not a prequel, in any way?

    And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

    Yeah I know about the Techy bit but thats the bit I'm confused on.

    Do you mean to tell me that, even after I gave you a list of reasons why CR and QoS aren't prequels, you will persist in saying that they are and expect me to explain to you how this is?!

    Bottom line: DN-DAD is one timeline, CR-SF(current) is a second unrelated unconnected has not a damn thing to do with the other one timeline.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    samainsy wrote:
    samainsy wrote:
    I'm getting annoyed now thinking about this everyday lets just say CR and QoS were set before DN and SF is set in nowadays ok?

    Explain how that makes sense? Bond, in CR and QoS, has a cell phone, a Walther P99 and PPK, gets a tracer planted in his arm (which is then taken out), has access to technological achievements which have only been around for the past 7 years, and is fighting a group called Quantum.

    Bond, in DN onward, is first equipped with a PPK in DN (meaning he has not used one before), only occasionally gets tracking devices (which are never embedded in his skin, nor that small), is eventually given a P99 (once again, when he attains one in TND, he's never used one before, and even calls it the "new Walther"), has been working with Q practically forever (meaning that SF wouldn't be their first meeting, would it?), is only using technological advancements that existed at that time (do you ever see him carrying around a laptop in OHMSS? no!) and is fighting a group called SPECTRE, both of which are similar, in that they are a group of people who are causing acts of terrorism and destabilizing governments, but the similarities stop there.

    So how, with all these discrepancies does it make any sense that CR and QoS are prequels to DN especially after MGW and crew have specifically stated the Craig Bond to be a reboot, which is not a prequel, in any way?

    And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

    Yeah I know about the Techy bit but thats the bit I'm confused on.

    Do you mean to tell me that, even after I gave you a list of reasons why CR and QoS aren't prequels, you will persist in saying that they are and expect me to explain to you how this is?!

    Bottom line: DN-DAD is one timeline, CR-SF(current) is a second unrelated unconnected has not a damn thing to do with the other one timeline.

    Agent007391 - dont lose your cool. Thats what he wants. Just IFM and dont feed him.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    samainsy wrote:
    samainsy wrote:
    I'm getting annoyed now thinking about this everyday lets just say CR and QoS were set before DN and SF is set in nowadays ok?

    Explain how that makes sense? Bond, in CR and QoS, has a cell phone, a Walther P99 and PPK, gets a tracer planted in his arm (which is then taken out), has access to technological achievements which have only been around for the past 7 years, and is fighting a group called Quantum.

    Bond, in DN onward, is first equipped with a PPK in DN (meaning he has not used one before), only occasionally gets tracking devices (which are never embedded in his skin, nor that small), is eventually given a P99 (once again, when he attains one in TND, he's never used one before, and even calls it the "new Walther"), has been working with Q practically forever (meaning that SF wouldn't be their first meeting, would it?), is only using technological advancements that existed at that time (do you ever see him carrying around a laptop in OHMSS? no!) and is fighting a group called SPECTRE, both of which are similar, in that they are a group of people who are causing acts of terrorism and destabilizing governments, but the similarities stop there.

    So how, with all these discrepancies does it make any sense that CR and QoS are prequels to DN especially after MGW and crew have specifically stated the Craig Bond to be a reboot, which is not a prequel, in any way?

    And, @flasheart, I agree, please quit with the "Don't feed the troll" image, it's become a record that's not only broken, but sh*t upon.

    Yeah I know about the Techy bit but thats the bit I'm confused on.

    Do you mean to tell me that, even after I gave you a list of reasons why CR and QoS aren't prequels, you will persist in saying that they are and expect me to explain to you how this is?!

    Bottom line: DN-DAD is one timeline, CR-SF(current) is a second unrelated unconnected has not a damn thing to do with the other one timeline.

    Agent007391 - dont lose your cool. Thats what he wants. Just IFM and dont feed him.

    I'm not losing my cool, I'm simply pointing out the obvious with force.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    I kind of see it that with SF, Craig's timeline has kind of dove-tailed into the old one.
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