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I have wondered if Frank Miller drew some inspiration from this image from 20 years prior to The Dark Knight Returns.
Alas the film despite having great scenes that felt Graphic Novel accurate early on the film often meanaders and lacks focus. Zoe looks great as Celina though is flat and has zero chemistry with Batman. When so called revelations appeared I either saw it coming a mile off or just did not care.
I understand the murky look for artistic reasons though it becomes a bit too much over a 3 hour runtime. I hate to admit in certain scenes I was bored, I would rate this at this time the fifth or Sixth best live action Batman film. I will watch it for a second time tomorrow perhaps my opinion will differ.
The dialogue at times is not very good, it often feels clunky and should be far better for a film of this status.
The ending I thought I was watching Batman and Robin it was hokey at times.
Batman wandering around crime scenes is brilliant admittedly.
As a DC fan I am glad this film did well nonetheless.
If anyone wants to watch a recent good Batman, watch The Long Halloween Parts 1 and 2 Animated Film its superb.
Ultimately The Batman is a very mixed bag, the best Batman film ever? No chance.
I am a huge Planet of the Apes fan of all the films. I do like Reeves two films though I think as a film maker he has pacing issues especielly The War of the Planet of the Apes. Those pacing issues are very evident in The Batman, I often switched off and I think a lot could have been cut from this film.
What puts The Batman ahead of TDK for me is the filmmaking, the story, and direction. The cinematography is excellent, but it's a film rich in detail all round. We can actually hear the leather of Batman's suit in the sound design, the echo of his footsteps. It immersed me in the film and felt real. This just isn't seen as much in the Nolan films. I understand Nolan is an admired director but he does have a habit of sloppy filmmaking by comparison that leaves me rather cold (the sound design in Tenet is a major example and distracts from the film. Same for the fact that he choses to shoot many fight scenes in TDK and TDKR with wider shots, thus making the choreography rather visible. Distracting stuff, again very sloppy for such a famed director). I prefer seeing Batman as a detective figure too so I enjoyed that aspect of the movie. Gotham feels much more vivid than Nolan's run of the mill depiction of it which is basically just Chicago. I always hated the end of TDK too. Batman spends so much time standing by Gotham and Nolan shows how its citizens ultimately do the right thing even under dire circumstances (the people on the boat at the end) and yet his Batman doesn't have enough faith in the city to tell them the truth. Instead he lies to them, pits everyone against him as some sort of 'enemy' for them to rally against. Very odd, cynical decision that's not expanded on by Nolan in his next film. Reeve's Batman is flawed - he has a deep anger - but ultimately believes that he and the rest of the city can transform and be better.
It's not as good as The Mask of the Phantasm but I enjoyed The Batman a lot.
Often if I don't like a film on first watch I like it later and vice versa.
Though I hated The Last Jedi on first watch and that never changed.
The bottom line there is nothing in The Batman that gets close to the pre title sequence of NTTD
NTTD pre title sequence is greatness and admittedly a high bar.
Major plus I think on second watch I will pay even more attention to his performance and subtle reactions.
Exactly! Those subtle reactions of his. I really enjoyed those.
As much as I love TDK, every time I rewatch it I find even more inconsistencies and issues with the plot and storytelling. There are so many one in a million chance situations that drive the Joker's goals, it's really absurd and helps take me out of the experience a lot of the time. The biggest one for me is diverting the convoy carrying Dent by a burning firetruck. It's clearly a trap, why not go down the other street instead? It's ridiculous.
I think I am being generous.
Joker is far more engaging than this.
I train and this is good.
I incorporate a lot of what is shown in my own training.
I don't mind things like Joker getting kidnapped just to escape again (same for when Silva did it in SF). The Gordon example is the one which always took me out of the film. But yeah, there's a lot of odd plot points which may or may not get noticed.
I do like TDK, but I'm don't personally think it's the masterpiece many claim it is (although Ledger's performance is spectacular and the character carries the film). Nolan can be a strange director too.
See, I just wasn't as impressed with Joker. I still liked it, think I gave it a 3/5 after I saw it in theaters a few weeks after its release, but beyond Phoenix's performance, it didn't really move or stun me like it did for most others.
I feel if you've seen Taxi Driver and King of Comedy it tends not to impress viewers as much. I liked it, but I agree it didn't stun me.
I have seen both Scorsese films countless times and if anything the homages made me appreciate the Joker more.
I loved the unreliable narrater aspect of the Joker which I felt added an extra dimension to the film, like The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight to pick two examples the Joker lies a lot.
Exactly. The film 'Joker' captured the essence of what the character is to me: elusive, impossible to understand, defying rational assessment.
I also understand why some people prefer to leave Joker out of Reeve's films but to be honest, I don't think that will happen. Most audiences will, I think, still expect the Joker at some point. And Joker's commercial appeal will no doubt pressure WB into bringing him in as well. Some other suggestions made here, including Clock King and Bookworm, sound good to me too, except that they may be frowned upon by those who rarely explore the DC universe.
Personally, I would try to mix in some A list villains we've already seen in past movies but which were then done in a--eh--"creative" way. The ones that are thus up for a live-action second appreciation include Ivy, Freeze, and Two-Face (my one let-down from the Nolan era). Seeing how well Reeve handled Penguin, I'm especially interested in an upgraded Ivy and Freeze, much like how these two were handled in the Arkham video games, I'd say.
And then there are my personal favourites: Hatter, Hush, Clayface. If we allow a little fantasy to leak into these films, those would be my preferred choices.
I’ve always found Taxi Driver too be a bit overrated. That’s me, it’s still a good movie. As for Joker, if they do a sequel, bring in more comic book characters. Honestly, for the Batman sequel, I’d like to see the Bat-Family to get a second chance on screen. It’s been too long.
I think they're setting us up for that. Pattinson has the right age to come off as a young Batman who is nevertheless already capable of mentoring a 'ward'.
Its was certainly a very dark looking Joker though I would rather see some unused (on the big screen) characters from Batman's rogues gallery next. Admittedly more often than not Joker = more bums on seats $$$
I thought they should have done this to begin with.