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The Bond Girl as a character

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2013 Posts: 28,694
    4EverBonded wrote:
    Well I did say kill her off early! That might be satisying for some ...

    ... and don't sick your hamster/groundhog/squirrel/whatever rodent that is on me! :-SS
    Joking or not, does Dan look amused?!

    daniel+craig_toss+gameboard.gif


    NOOOOOOOOO!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    And anyway... This is not a casting call.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    What on earth was going on in some of those posts. Animations running wild. I am also of the idea that we could use another bad girl adversary. There haven't been too many memorable names in the franchise apart from say Volpe or Elektra King on the wrong end of things. Thankfully we haven't had anyone quite so bad such as Roberts or d'Abo from the 1980s, except for the awful Berry character, but ideally would be looking at someone who can be a match for Bond, good or bad, and knows how to look after themselves. Someone like Michelle Yeoh again, for example, would be the right way forward
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    What on earth was going on in some of those posts. Animations running wild. I am also of the idea that we could use another bad girl adversary. There haven't been too many memorable names in the franchise apart from say Volpe or Elektra King on the wrong end of things. Thankfully we haven't had anyone quite so bad such as Roberts or d'Abo from the 1980s, except for the awful Berry character, but ideally would be looking at someone who can be a match for Bond, good or bad, and knows how to look after themselves. Someone like Michelle Yeoh again, for example, would be the right way forward

    Jinx was bad, in a different way. I never liked Bond's equals much. Bond should not have an equal among Bond girls, that's why he is the hero. A Bond girl can complete him by having skills he does not have (Natalya's computer skills for instance), but they should not compete with him. Notice that every Bond's equal becomes suddenly helpless at some point in the story. I am all for a competent Bond girl, good at what she does, but giving her different skills than Bond.
  • samainsysamainsy Suspended
    Posts: 199
    Murdock wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    samainsy wrote:
    I think one should be a lesbian agent for CIA or something then turn to straight at the end.

    Oh please!

    Oddly enough that happened with Pussy Galore in the Goldfinger Novel IIRC.

    I know it did. And that's my problem: it already did! I am all for revisiting past Bond, but making a carbon copy Bond girl of a previous Bond girl? Yes, some will have similarities. But this is way too similar to Pussy Galore.

    Yeah, but the film version of Pussy was never like that. I'm all for the idea.

    Never read the Goldfinger book.So I think its a good idea,Who agrees?
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    It was done in the film version of Goldfinger as well. As far as I know, James Bond is the only man who has ever been able to successfully turn a lesbian into a heterosexual simply by having intercourse with her. Okay I know there are some who are going to say that it was never made clear that PG was a lesbian in the film version of GF. Hey people, this was 1964. She does say "You can turn off the charm, I'm immune." And in the barn we have this conversation: Pussy- "Not by anything you've got." Bond- "How do you know?" Pussy- "I don't want to know." How much clearer can it be, other than having Pussy making out with one of the other pilots or flat out saying "I'm a lesbian?"
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    DB5 wrote:
    It was done in the film version of Goldfinger as well. As far as I know, James Bond is the only man who has ever been able to successfully turn a lesbian into a heterosexual simply by having intercourse with her. Okay I know there are some who are going to say that it was never made clear that PG was a lesbian in the film version of GF. Hey people, this was 1964. She does say "You can turn off the charm, I'm immune." And in the barn we have this conversation: Pussy- "Not by anything you've got." Bond- "How do you know?" Pussy- "I don't want to know." How much clearer can it be, other than having Pussy making out with one of the other pilots or flat out saying "I'm a lesbian?"

    Yes, Pussy Galore was a lesbian in the movie as well. I guess one could have a Bond girl who is a lesbian again and make it more obvious. But the idea of ''turning'' a woman's sexual orientation might be more difficult to sell now.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    Hey if Bond couldn't turn a lesbian into a heterosexual woman he wouldn't be Bond. But remember in Goldfinger we don't have just one lesbian but two (Tilly Masterson). I agree in the film it's even less apparent than with PG but it's still there. I think the attitude of most people would be "been there, done that."
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    DB5 wrote:
    Hey if Bond couldn't turn a lesbian into a heterosexual woman he wouldn't be Bond. But remember in Goldfinger we don't have just one lesbian but two (Tilly Masterson). I agree in the film it's even less apparent than with PG but it's still there. I think the attitude of most people would be "been there, done that."

    In the novel, he does not even turn her, she turns herself out of attraction towards him. I am not that would sell now.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    The women may be rounded out in the books but for the most part the females in the films are relagated to being one dimensional. the only exceptions being Vesper Lynd in CR and Tracy in OHMSS.
    Tracy is very well rounded and has a complete arch in the film and that is what makes her such a memorable Bond girl. Of course marrying 007 helped out.
    Vesper is also rounded out and has an arch, not as defining as Tracy but she is there.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    I think we don't have enough ''minor'' Bond girls, like say Pat Fearing, women who cross Bond's path not knowing of his profession. We had his Turkish lover in SF, that was the first we saw in a long time. There should be more like her. Nurses, flight attendants, estate agents, bored socialites, what have you.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited July 2013 Posts: 15,123
    How about a Bond girl that has a reverse role to the one of Vesper? I mean a "bad" girl turned good, maybe working for Quantum in a minor capacity. Call her Aurora say, which is kind of the opposite of Vesper.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Ludovico, bad-to-good, like Severine?
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Tania and Pussy Galore could fit too. As could Octopussy, or Kara and Lupe.
  • TracyTracy
    edited July 2013 Posts: 1,708
    I'm in London now , unfortunately the damn window is painted shut so you can imagine
    how "cosy" it is now with the heat.....on the positive side I met "The Voice" (registered trademark Nikki van der Syl) and got 21 items sgd incl several posters/Japan borchures/misc mags , holy bonanza :D
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited July 2013 Posts: 15,123
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Ludovico, bad-to-good, like Severine?

    I was thinking a bit more like Pussy Galore, except maybe more unwilling accomplice. If the last Batman movie was not so, well, relatively recent, I would suggest a cat burglar of some sort. But that would bring too many comparisons right now.
  • b007jbb007jb
    Posts: 5
    dood cia u got to be kidding she us not a agent
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Octopussy, Pussy Galore and May Day all went bad to good.

    Tania and Kara I'm not sure about as they were both manipulated. Tania thought she was helping the KGB and Kara thought she was fighting them when in reality they were both just helping the villains.

    Lupe was trapped in an abusive relationship with Sanchez (and we know what he did when she tried to do a runner) and she wasn't part of his business at all.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Octopussy, Pussy Galore and May Day all went bad to good.

    Tania and Kara I'm not sure about as they were both manipulated. Tania thought she was helping the KGB and Kara thought she was fighting them when in reality they were both just helping the villains.

    Lupe was trapped in an abusive relationship with Sanchez (and we know what he did when she tried to do a runner) and she wasn't part of his business at all.

    Good points. You can add Domino in the abusive relationship category. I would think someone mid-way between Pussy Galore and Tania, not completely manipulated but not as cynical as Pussy Galore. Maybe a small time criminal who turns a blind eye to some people contracting her. She could be doing forgery, or be used as an informant, or something of the sort.
  • 00Hero00Hero Banned
    edited July 2013 Posts: 121
    I already had the idea for a Lesbian please dont steal it. An acrobat or a girl whose trapped. The Prime Ministers daughter or a social light ie Paris Hilton etc or a thief and why havent we seen PoliceWoman Brand yet chaps.
  • PerdoggPerdogg
    Posts: 686
    We already have one in Barbara Broccoli. She has managed to emasculate James Bond.
  • 00Hero00Hero Banned
    Posts: 121
    Have one what @perdogg.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    00Hero wrote:
    I already had the idea for a Lesbian please dont steal it. An acrobat or a girl whose trapped. The Prime Ministers daughter or a social light ie Paris Hilton etc or a thief and why havent we seen PoliceWoman Brand yet chaps.

    The prime minister daughter I don't see it working, for many reasons. But Gala Brand, hell yes!
  • 00Hero00Hero Banned
    Posts: 121
    What reasons are those @Ludovico it worked out ok in the Frwl video game.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2013 Posts: 6,304
    I'd like a Bond girl whom Bond seduces and who is ultimately the main villain--not splitting the difference like Elektra/Renard or Klebb/Grant/Kronsteen/Blofeld.

    Someone like Dame Mirren would obviously be great in this kind of role.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    echo wrote:
    I'd like a Bond girl whom Bond seduces and who is ultimately the main villain--not splitting the difference like Elektra/Renard or Klebb/Grant/Kronsteen/Blofeld.

    Someone like Dame Mirren would obviously be great in this kind of role.

    Who wants to see Bond seduce a 67 year old woman? Not me.

    Even if it is Dame Helen, it would be a weird sight, and she hardly qualifies as Bond girl material.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Who wants to see Bond seduce a 67 year old woman? Not me.
    :-?

    Yeah, no that would be wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I would totally not watch that with a box of popcorn...
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Even if it is Dame Helen, it would be a weird sight, and she hardly qualifies as Bond girl material.
    It's been thrown out there a lot that Mirren could make a great 'head of (insert organization name here)', perhaps capturing Bond and torturing him a little, but I agree- no love scenes, no matter how great she's doing for her age. Besides, Bond doesn't need to seduce/get seduced by every villainess. Adds a bit more realism.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    00Hero wrote:
    What reasons are those @Ludovico it worked out ok in the Frwl video game.

    Video games and movies are two different things. I certainly would not like the movies to start borrowing from the games, when there is still plenty of Fleming material to work on. The daughter of a public political figure, say a prime minister, even a fictitious one, is a little bit too high profile as well. I am not sure that Cameron, or any of his successors, would appreciate either.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    The wise man quotes himself:

    Getafix said:

    Ludovico said:

    I am all against Bond's equal. I am all for Bond girls who complete Bond, without competing with his functions, or who make his life more difficult. Maybe we should move this part of the discussion to the thread I started a while ago, The Bond Girl as a Character:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/6601/the-bond-girl-as-a-character/p1



    Good point. Who do you see as being in that vein? Kara?



    As a woman who completes Bond I see Pussy Galore, Natalya, Holly Goodhead (even though I am no fan of MR), Honey Ryder (partially), Tracy (again, partially), Pam Bouvier and Octopussy among others.

    As a woman who makes his life more difficult, I see Honey Ryder, Tatiana, Domino, Solitaire, Tracy, Lupe Lamore (much better than the overrated Pam, by the way) and yes Kara. Basically, they can be central to the plot (Tatiana is maybe the archetype of this one) or peripheral, but because of her Bond has one extra worry makes the plot more exciting: he needs not only to kill the badguy and stay alive, but he needs to protect an innocent too. Imagine the last part of DN without Honey Ryder and you don't have the same story, and a much weaker one as well. I think it is this particular kind of Bond girl we need for Bond 24. Not a professional, but a woman who is lost in a dangerous game and toward whom our feelings go to.
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