Lost but now found! The Unreleased Bond Music Thread!

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  • edited September 20 Posts: 4,042
  • bcaloubcalou France
    Posts: 46
    Thanks for sharing, @vzok

    What bothers me is the same than with "Message from an Old Friend", and it took me some time to understand what is was exactly.

    These long tracks contain good or great musical ideas, but they're only loosely connected to each other with "waiting music".

    The score is like : here's a cool dynamic rendition of NTTD main theme for the plane taking off.
    Now please enjoy these ambiant sounds for 2 minutes.
    Now there is a fight : fight music!
    Ambiant sounds for 2 minutes, again.
    Felix is dying, death music! Which I like, by the way.

    Maybe it has something to do with this movie being longer than usual and containing more music than ever...

    But as a listening experience, it often falls flat.
  • Posts: 4,042
    Years ago there would have been 2 or 3 short separate tracks with no score in between. Now the fashion seems to be for filling the gaps with ambient music.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 88
    bcalou wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing, @vzok

    What bothers me is the same than with "Message from an Old Friend", and it took me some time to understand what is was exactly.

    These long tracks contain good or great musical ideas, but they're only loosely connected to each other with "waiting music".

    The score is like : here's a cool dynamic rendition of NTTD main theme for the plane taking off.
    Now please enjoy these ambiant sounds for 2 minutes.
    Now there is a fight : fight music!
    Ambiant sounds for 2 minutes, again.
    Felix is dying, death music! Which I like, by the way.

    Maybe it has something to do with this movie being longer than usual and containing more music than ever...

    But as a listening experience, it often falls flat.

    I kind of feel the same about "Matera". It begins with a lovely lush theme, then it cuts to We Have All The Time in the World, then it cuts to No Time To Die. It's a great track, actually one of my favourite Bond music tracks ever, but it feels more like a mash up of themes rather than a music track with melodies weaving into each other. Barry wove the main song and/or the Bond theme into his tracks seamlessly. "Escape from Piz Gloria", "Battle at Piz Gloria", "Funny Voices" and "Hercules Take Off" are great examples of this.
  • bcaloubcalou France
    edited September 20 Posts: 46
    vzok wrote: »
    Years ago there would have been 2 or 3 short separate tracks with no score in between. Now the fashion seems to be for filling the gaps with ambient music.

    Yes, you're probably right.
    I kind of feel the same about "Matera". It begins with a lovely lush theme, then it cuts to We Have All The Time in the World, then it cuts to No Time To Die. It's a great track, actually one of my favourite Bond music tracks ever, but it feels more like a mash up of themes rather than a music track with melodies weaving into each other. Barry wove the main song and/or the Bond theme into his tracks seamlessly. "Escape from Piz Gloria", "Battle at Piz Gloria", "Funny Voices" and "Hercules Take Off" are great examples of this.

    Well put. I love Matera too but the switch to "We Have All The Time in the World" is super distracting. The one that works very well for me is Vesper Theme, because it matches the emotion of the scene. The theme is not invoked to squeeze out an emotion from us, it's here to accompany it.

    The Barry tracks you mentionned are so great. In most films he doesn't even use the Bond Theme that much, yet each second is so Bondian that it feels like it.

    Even if we try to compare with more "modern" scores, I don't think Arnold ever "fills the void" between the ideas.
    In an interview, he speaks about the dauting task of coming up with the 12 minutes tracks "Antonov" from DAD. One may not like the electronic or even musical choices, but I don't feel there is any dull moment here. It's all a great build-up to the final Bond Theme. And he did it again for "Miami International" and other long tracks.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,133
    I guess to be fair, criticising that track above for not being good to listen to when divorced from the film is a little tricky because unlike the other tracks mentioned, it wasn't released as part of the score i.e. they didn't intend for it to be listened to on its own.
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 322
    As someone who enjoys ambient music, this was a treat. Can't wait to hear more.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,133
    It makes me want to watch NTTD again actually! I'm not in love with the score, but it does give the whole film an effective, dangerous mood.
  • bcaloubcalou France
    Posts: 46
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess to be fair, criticising that track above for not being good to listen to when divorced from the film is a little tricky because unlike the other tracks mentioned, it wasn't released as part of the score i.e. they didn't intend for it to be listened to on its own.

    You're absolutely right to mention this, but to me that's part of the problem :p
    Barry never knew how much of his music would eventually be released, Arnold and the others neither, and I could be biased but I don't feel that tracks that were not on the original releases are any less good. IMO these composers didn't care about this, and I'm not sure the same can be said about Zimmer, as you point out.

    On the other hand I completly agree that a soundtrack should be judged in the context of its movie (Goldeneye being a good example). And indeed, even in the context of the movie, it makes some of these scenes less interesting to me. Silence could have worked better.
    It's all about personal taste of course. Most of the time I like Zimmer's work but this approach is not very bondian to me :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,133
    I don't know if that's quite fair: Barry and Arnold would have worked on the score album presentations so knew what was being released, and as we saw with something like Octopussy recently, the album mix was different to the film mix.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,233
    mtm wrote: »
    It makes me want to watch NTTD again actually! I'm not in love with the score, but it does give the whole film an effective, dangerous mood.

    I agree 💯 with this. It was very effective in layering that dangerous mood on top of the pictures of the film. It was certainly a “darker” soundtrack than most. Ominous .
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 322
    Hope we get to hear more tracks soon. Trawler, Misty Woods, and Zen Garden Face off are ones I've been curious to hear isolated from the film.
  • bcaloubcalou France
    Posts: 46
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't know if that's quite fair: Barry and Arnold would have worked on the score album presentations so knew what was being released, and as we saw with something like Octopussy recently, the album mix was different to the film mix.

    Sorry I was unclear, I meant that for example Barry didn't know that 40 years later every track from OP would be released anyway.
    mtm wrote: »
    It makes me want to watch NTTD again actually! I'm not in love with the score, but it does give the whole film an effective, dangerous mood.

    The positive thing is that it has the same effect on me! Again, there are lot of moments that I love in this soundtrack. Square Escape, Cuba Chase... I just can't resist nitpicking about things that I love ;)
  • Hopefully that’s from the CD I ordered off eBay in which case the sound is great. I am going to have to chop up the music though (but with fading it’ll be distinct shorter cues).
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 322
    Hopefully that’s from the CD I ordered off eBay in which case the sound is great. I am going to have to chop up the music though (but with fading it’ll be distinct shorter cues).

    My order just shipped today. International, of course, but at least it's on the move.
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